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please have a look at my electrical panel

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amps breaker circuit electrical panel safety small shop wiring
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#21 · (Edited by Moderator)
Most water heaters are 220 volt and most water softeners are only 110 Volt, so having both of them pugged
into the same outlet sounds weird. They do have 110 volt water heaters, but they are not as efficient as a
220 volt. You said that the outlet was in the furnace area, do you have hot water heat?
 
Discussion starter · #22 · (Edited by Moderator)
Thanks for the reply, the water heater is 110v 2.5 amps and the furnace is natural gas. I am not sure what the water softener is yet but the plug has a transformer on the end and the cord is rather narrow so it makes me think it isnt using much power. I checked a very similar water softener model online (kenmore same as mine) and it requires 120v 60hz.

I am not sure what all this means. Does it still sound unusual? I live in a 4 year old home.
 
#23 ·
I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest you run a 60 or 100 amp sub-panel to the workshop area and then work from there. You'll want a couple of 20 amp breakers for outlets, a 15 amp for lights, a 20 armp 240 for big machines, a 20 amp for dust collection, etc.

Down the road you might finish the basement and then further down the road you'll decide to add a spray booth or something else that needs a separate circuit and it will be a lot easier to pull it off a panel in the workshop than through a finished basement.

I also think it's a lot easier to run one big wire to the workshop than 10 smaller wires.
 
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#24 ·
The water heater is most likely gas and the plug is a booster fan to get rid of fumes.
 
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Discussion starter · #25 ·
Hi Steve, I was looking into the sub panel idea a bit tonight actually and it sounds great. However, it looks like bigger expense and beyond my comfort level. I have not ruled it out since there are added benefits.

That sounds about right concerning the water heater. There is a smallish motor on top.

Thanks
 
#26 ·
+1 on steves idea, I did this in my shop. One of the benefits of this is I can turn off power to a machine by throwing the breaker rather then pulling plugs,pretty much mandatory on a hard wired machine.
 
#27 · (Edited by Moderator)
Can you pull the face off the panel and take another picture?
It would be nice to see how the wire is laid out inside.
A couple more thoughts.
1. It appears your main disconnect is a pair of 200 amp breakers. That seems unusually high for that type of installation I would limit the total load out of the box 200 amps. Get a clamp on amp meter and run a test. on the input lines with various things turned on.
2. You need what ever kind of clamp is required for the feed through on the box for the type of cable you are using. It looks like the existing is done with romax.
 
#29 ·
Step 1, what is the connected and demand load on the panel now. Just because there is space for additional breakers doesn't automatically equal additional capacity (amps) available.

Step 2, dont attempt to do electrical if you have no training or education on the system. Houses burn down because people porrly install or modify the electrical. Know the code before attempting any electrical work. And have the work inspected. When in doubt, hire an electrician.

What looks odd is that the electrician that installed this panel, decided to only use one side of the panel for branch breakers.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
Thanks Wisconsin for the info.

How come that looks odd? is there a safety issue here? This is a new home and we have had a few issues so when I hear this I get a little concerned.

Thanks again
 
#31 ·
Nothing wrong with it. Most electricians would put breakers on both sides to lessen the amount of conductors on a side. Sometimes can get messy in the panels wiring space with all those double 15 in a single breaker space. not against code though.
 
#33 ·
The load is balanced the way they are installed. Alternate vertical slots are on opposite phases.
 
#34 ·
Farrout post 26…..... good eyes!! Not an electrician here, but I've never seen a main like that. I'd like to see a pic of the panel + wiring as well.
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
Wisconsin, thanks for getting back to me, that puts my mind at ease.

Jimmy, I am in Canada

Farrout, Thanks

Here are some pics, let me know if you need any different views.

I really appreciate all the help everyone

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#36 ·
In my area we would say that panel was wired by an amateur. The Romex should go inside the panel about 1 inch them the outer sheath could be cut there. The wires should be run neatly along the sides of the panel until you get to the breaker then they would be bent 90 deg. and attached to the breaker. The breakers shown are mainly half the width of standard breakers. These are okay but you can easily overload a panel with them. They take half the space so you can install twice as many of them. This overloads the panel. In the U.S. the bus strip that the breakers attach to are installed in the panel then the mains knife over the ends of them. Just different but I don't see that they are not safe. I can't tell if there is a fastener on the bonding strip that goes from the right to the left side of the panel. This is 3 photos up. If there is no screw then the wires on the bottom bus strip are not connected to the common feed. It is difficult to tell what we are looking at in photos. Not the same as being there. Our Romex wires are required to be connected to the walls of the panel with some type of strain relief. Doesn't look like your are that way but that is our code. I think Canada might be even tighter on their regulations. This panel actually looks like it could have a double main. I don't see mains that look like this but then it is a different country. I need to go to town with my wife now. Maybe other can comment on this.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
Thanks Grandpa, The house was wired by a fairly big company in the area. However, I do know that there was an apprentice and basically a co-op student working on the wiring as well. This was something that was not entirely known at the time. One thing I can't stand in the house is that the light switches are always on the wrong side of the wall. It confuses everyone and even the builder when we came for the final inspection.

If there is amateurish work in the panel it makes me wonder what is happening behind the walls. I am mainly feeling this way because of the other issues we have had with the house.

Have fun out with your wife. Thanks again.
 
#38 ·
Those parallel or double mains have been used by GE, ITE and Siemens. Maybe others.
 
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#39 ·
Interesting observations Grandpa. Based on the fuzzy pictures it looks like he has 16 half width 15 amp breakers. If he were to replace them all with full size breakers he would lose 8 slots. Still, he would have a fair number of slots left, though not an entire half panel.

Is there any number of half width breakers that are acceptable? Just curious, I am running out of space and an electrician I had in to do some work suggested them as a possibility.

Greg
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
About the half sized breakers. I am assuming this is because it cuts cost for the electrician. I am wondering if this is to code? or simply just not as robust?

Should I consider switching or contacting the builder? Probably just have to accept it.

Sorry for all the questions.
 
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