I'm in the market for my first table saw and I've been looking around on the List, but haven't found exactly what I'm looking for so I went to the blue box store and the new Delta 36-725 caught my eye. I also like anything Bosch, so the 4100-09 is also a contender. They are two different type saws, but I can't really decide which one! They are the same price and the fact that one is portable doesn't really matter. I just think Bosch makes really good tools. I'm afraid the Delta is TOO new and the kinks aren't worked out yet. I've heard customer service is terrible and the issue with the throat plate bothers me (sheet metal and non zero clearance). So help me guys…. Which one?
bsstone13
New Delta 36-725 OR Bosch??
They are two different classes of saws. The Delta is an induction motor saw and a nice fence making it a much more appropriate saw for woodworking. The Bosch is a great universal drive jobsite saw, but since mobility isn't a big deal for you, go with the induction saw (Delta). The Delta has been reviewed in great detail LJ by thetinman.
PS: Get ready for the onslaught of people advocating you scour Craigslist.
PS: Get ready for the onslaught of people advocating you scour Craigslist.
Bosch makes really good tools. I'm afraid the Delta is TOO new and the kinks aren't worked out yet. I've heard customer service is terrible and the issue with the throat plate bothers me
So if you really believe all these things then why is there even a question?
Go read this thread: http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3822
Your exact question was asked there 3 days ago.
So if you really believe all these things then why is there even a question?
Go read this thread: http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3822
Your exact question was asked there 3 days ago.
I want to believe that the negative things I've heard/read (only a couple) about the Delta will improve. All I can do is read the reviews, which the Bosch 4100-09 has excellent reviews, and visit the box store to get some hands on, but that isn't the thing to do considering the displays are "halfway" assembled. I was hoping to get some feedback from first handers on here. Again, I know the two saws I've mentioned are two different type saws, but locally those are the best two saws I see to choose from (at the blue box). Another thing I'm concerned about is dust collection. It will be hooked up to the dust collection system.
Rick- I did read the other post you referred to. In fact I've looked online a lot trying to find some talk about the new Delta, but there just isn't that much out there especially compared to what you can find on the Bosch.
I really want to try the Delta, but I wanted to run it by you guys for any input y'all may have. Plus, $500-$600 is a lot of money for me to spend without doing any research.
Rick- I did read the other post you referred to. In fact I've looked online a lot trying to find some talk about the new Delta, but there just isn't that much out there especially compared to what you can find on the Bosch.
I really want to try the Delta, but I wanted to run it by you guys for any input y'all may have. Plus, $500-$600 is a lot of money for me to spend without doing any research.
If the saw is for a home shop with a dc a job site saw like the Bosch you mentioned will simply not cut it for dust collection. It's a job site saw used for just that.
I have owned a job site saw and a contractor/hybrid saw and the dust collection on a real contractor/hybrid saw is night and day over a job site table saw. There is no good way to make a job site saw dc friendly without cutting it up and mounting it to a stand rendering it no longer a job site saw and spending more money in the long run for a inferior motor and fence.
I went through what you are going through. For the cost of my job site saw and stand plus my contractor saw I could be in a used delta unisaw or pm 66+ by now.
Paul
I have owned a job site saw and a contractor/hybrid saw and the dust collection on a real contractor/hybrid saw is night and day over a job site table saw. There is no good way to make a job site saw dc friendly without cutting it up and mounting it to a stand rendering it no longer a job site saw and spending more money in the long run for a inferior motor and fence.
I went through what you are going through. For the cost of my job site saw and stand plus my contractor saw I could be in a used delta unisaw or pm 66+ by now.
Paul
Even though Bosch does make good tools, the Delta is a full step up in class. It's a bit like comparing an S10 to a 1-ton Silverado that happen to be the same price. The Delta has considerably more surface area to operate in front of the blade (safer and more convenient), more area in general, much more mass and better stability, much quieter motor with more torque, stronger materials of construction, a better fence, and should have better long term reliability. The Bosch is more portable. Unless you need portability, it's a no brainer IMO.
The ABCs of Table Saws
The ABCs of Table Saws
I LIKE THEM BOTH BUT I WOULD LOOK AROUND FOR A GOOD USED OLDER DELTA FOR WHAT YOU WOULD PAY FOR THEM YOU COULD GET A NICE USED SAW BUT OUT OF THE TO I WOULD GO WITH THE DELTA GOOD DAY
Thanks, guys, for the opinions and thank you, Scott, for The ABC's of Table Saws… I'm leaning towards the Delta. I'll let you guys know.
The Delta did not pass my "once over" inspection at the store. It seemed rickety and the reviews are mixed. The thin throat plates was enough to scare me off. I like having plenty of shop made throat plates for each blade setup. This saw reminds me a little of the Craftsman contractors saws, with thin throat plates that were difficult to make. Commercial throat plates are typically unavailable.
I guess it depends on how much that feature matters to you. I had a Craftsman and a Hitachi TS that were quickly replaced in favor of a Jet. I would also make sure that the arbor bolt is long enough to accept a full dado stack. My Hitachi would not.
Good luck with your decision.
I guess it depends on how much that feature matters to you. I had a Craftsman and a Hitachi TS that were quickly replaced in favor of a Jet. I would also make sure that the arbor bolt is long enough to accept a full dado stack. My Hitachi would not.
Good luck with your decision.
I own the Bosch. I don't know anything about the Delta. I bought the Bosch because being able to stow it away in our cramped garage is a necessity. If it weren't, I would take the $500+ that the Bosch runs, closer to $600 with the extensions, and keep an eye on CL for a nicer used saw. The Bosch has been great for me and it's a well-made, accurate tool, but I'll be happy to upgrade when space allows me to.
I own the Delta, you ought to read thetinman's follow up review, he's (mostly) spot on. I had some HORRIBLE blade alignment out of the box, but after a call to the Delta line, they sent me a powerpoint document on how to adjust blade-to-miterslot squareness. One giant 2×4 and a deadblow hammer and an hour later and I had it within .005 which is good enough for me. I insisted on buying new if it wasn't a cabinet saw, and there weren't any good used cabinet saws in my area, so with Ridgid out due to the blade height problem and an inferior fence to the Delta, I picked it up for 540 after mover's coupon at the big L.
You're really comparing apples to oranges, as you're comparing one of the best jobsite saws to a full-size contractor saw. The Delta will give you longer crosscut ability, a superior fence, and a fullsize table to work on. The downside to the Delta is I can no longer stow it on top of a bench (I used to have a DW745) and therefore I've lost the ability to park BOTH cars in the garage - a 'meh' for me. The full size table of the Delta has pretty much retired the use of my miter saw, and I've attached a Bosch RA1181 router table to the right wing to get a dual-purpose machine going. The full sized table and ability to use the Delta fence as a dual-purpose fence make this my best tool purchase to date.
Oh, almost forgot to answer your issues directly. There aren't really any kinks, Delta's been making this saw for decades, the only things that are really 'new' is the safety feature set (second to none I've found, although I only use the RK) and the tubular frame (subtracts weight, as stable as others AFAIK). The throat plate that ships with it is fine and WAY overstated, although it only bevels to 40 degrees on my saw (d'oh). It took me an hour to make 3 ZCI's from 5/8" MDF, although there's one tiny issue with that - even with the 10" blade all the way down, I couldn't make the initial ZCI cut so I had to use a circ saw blade (smaller kerf than the 10"). I had to hollow out the circ saw blade cut w/ my jigsaw and cut it every-so-slightly fat, so my ZCI is really an almost-ZCI that looks kind of crappy. One day I'll redo it, but the improvement in tear out even w/ the ghetto-rigged ZCI is excellent.
You're really comparing apples to oranges, as you're comparing one of the best jobsite saws to a full-size contractor saw. The Delta will give you longer crosscut ability, a superior fence, and a fullsize table to work on. The downside to the Delta is I can no longer stow it on top of a bench (I used to have a DW745) and therefore I've lost the ability to park BOTH cars in the garage - a 'meh' for me. The full size table of the Delta has pretty much retired the use of my miter saw, and I've attached a Bosch RA1181 router table to the right wing to get a dual-purpose machine going. The full sized table and ability to use the Delta fence as a dual-purpose fence make this my best tool purchase to date.
Oh, almost forgot to answer your issues directly. There aren't really any kinks, Delta's been making this saw for decades, the only things that are really 'new' is the safety feature set (second to none I've found, although I only use the RK) and the tubular frame (subtracts weight, as stable as others AFAIK). The throat plate that ships with it is fine and WAY overstated, although it only bevels to 40 degrees on my saw (d'oh). It took me an hour to make 3 ZCI's from 5/8" MDF, although there's one tiny issue with that - even with the 10" blade all the way down, I couldn't make the initial ZCI cut so I had to use a circ saw blade (smaller kerf than the 10"). I had to hollow out the circ saw blade cut w/ my jigsaw and cut it every-so-slightly fat, so my ZCI is really an almost-ZCI that looks kind of crappy. One day I'll redo it, but the improvement in tear out even w/ the ghetto-rigged ZCI is excellent.
BSSTone,
This thread is like a hundred others. Comparing the Delta to the Bosch is not apples and oranges. It is apples to plums. There is that much size difference and difference in what the skins are made of. What ify reviews on the Delta? I'm not talking about somebody who did a fly-by and made a comment. I'm talking about owner's reviews. That's what you're using for the Bosch. I have never seen a Bosch set up anywhere near correctly in a store. Who has really seen any saw set up correctly in a store? But you don't give a review on a store model.
OWNERS everywhere you look rate BOTH saws at 4 ½ stars. But you do have to read the reviews - to the end. Most of the sellers put the best reviews first so there is a lot of drudgery getting past the "I bought it just yesterday and I'm so thrilled" crap. Some places let you sort the reviews. I sort by reverse chronological because I want to see the latest product being offered. I don't want to read a bunch of irrelevant nonsense about a product sold 5-years ago. Heck all of the Bosch saws had a pretty good throat plate back then. Now the new 4100 owner's gripe about the flex in the plastic throat plate. And yes people comment about the 1/8-inch steel plate in the Delta too. This isn't me. I'm saying what actual owners of the current products are writing. As a woodworker one of the last things I would complain about is a factory "too wide" throat plate that I'm not going to use anyway - regardless of what it's made of. If I can't make a throat plate then I should probably call myself a house framing carpenter and stick to 2 X 4's.
What are owner's talking about?
Complaints about the Delta - owner's manual sucks for assembly (new manual with new saws now), sheet steel side tables and a 1/8-inch thick steel throat plate.
Complaints about the Bosch - "painted" table surface wears off quickly, can't lock the blade height, muscle adjustment to "good enough" on the angle, sloppy miter gauge, lead in distance to blade too short, noise level, vibration, and on. Read and you see all the same comments repeated. Conclusion predominantly given by owners - great gravity lift stand and you expect those other things with a job site saw. Give it 4 stars or 5 stars.
My point is that I am not praising ANY saw nor am I trashing ANY saw. The people who buy the Bosch know what they are buying. They list things as "wish is wasn't so" but accept them as normal for this type of saw and don't gig the rating. It's a great saw for its' intended purpose.
What complaints about customer service from Delta?
One guy writes in his review that the holes in the cast iron were not threaded to mount the side tables. Called Delta. New table shipped to him within 2 days. No charge. Keep the other table. Our apologies. I've called Delta on numerous occasions to get answers to people's questions and to learn myself. Hell, I think I'm on some frequent flyer program with them. They are always helpful. They never act like they are too busy. I'm always well satisfied. Every other person that has mentioned customer service regarding this saw has had good results.
Here's the bottom line. It's been said by others in many different ways- here and on many other posts. It's your money. Buy what you think will give you the most for your money under your circumstances. If your space is very limited then buy the Bosch or another job site saw. If you have the space and want to move up then buy the Delta or another contractor saw. Just be sure to spend your money on real investigations and reasoning and not opinions by others. The only thing you can be absolutely sure of is that you will find fault in whatever saw you buy. Know it and live with it.
This thread is like a hundred others. Comparing the Delta to the Bosch is not apples and oranges. It is apples to plums. There is that much size difference and difference in what the skins are made of. What ify reviews on the Delta? I'm not talking about somebody who did a fly-by and made a comment. I'm talking about owner's reviews. That's what you're using for the Bosch. I have never seen a Bosch set up anywhere near correctly in a store. Who has really seen any saw set up correctly in a store? But you don't give a review on a store model.
OWNERS everywhere you look rate BOTH saws at 4 ½ stars. But you do have to read the reviews - to the end. Most of the sellers put the best reviews first so there is a lot of drudgery getting past the "I bought it just yesterday and I'm so thrilled" crap. Some places let you sort the reviews. I sort by reverse chronological because I want to see the latest product being offered. I don't want to read a bunch of irrelevant nonsense about a product sold 5-years ago. Heck all of the Bosch saws had a pretty good throat plate back then. Now the new 4100 owner's gripe about the flex in the plastic throat plate. And yes people comment about the 1/8-inch steel plate in the Delta too. This isn't me. I'm saying what actual owners of the current products are writing. As a woodworker one of the last things I would complain about is a factory "too wide" throat plate that I'm not going to use anyway - regardless of what it's made of. If I can't make a throat plate then I should probably call myself a house framing carpenter and stick to 2 X 4's.
What are owner's talking about?
Complaints about the Delta - owner's manual sucks for assembly (new manual with new saws now), sheet steel side tables and a 1/8-inch thick steel throat plate.
Complaints about the Bosch - "painted" table surface wears off quickly, can't lock the blade height, muscle adjustment to "good enough" on the angle, sloppy miter gauge, lead in distance to blade too short, noise level, vibration, and on. Read and you see all the same comments repeated. Conclusion predominantly given by owners - great gravity lift stand and you expect those other things with a job site saw. Give it 4 stars or 5 stars.
My point is that I am not praising ANY saw nor am I trashing ANY saw. The people who buy the Bosch know what they are buying. They list things as "wish is wasn't so" but accept them as normal for this type of saw and don't gig the rating. It's a great saw for its' intended purpose.
What complaints about customer service from Delta?
One guy writes in his review that the holes in the cast iron were not threaded to mount the side tables. Called Delta. New table shipped to him within 2 days. No charge. Keep the other table. Our apologies. I've called Delta on numerous occasions to get answers to people's questions and to learn myself. Hell, I think I'm on some frequent flyer program with them. They are always helpful. They never act like they are too busy. I'm always well satisfied. Every other person that has mentioned customer service regarding this saw has had good results.
Here's the bottom line. It's been said by others in many different ways- here and on many other posts. It's your money. Buy what you think will give you the most for your money under your circumstances. If your space is very limited then buy the Bosch or another job site saw. If you have the space and want to move up then buy the Delta or another contractor saw. Just be sure to spend your money on real investigations and reasoning and not opinions by others. The only thing you can be absolutely sure of is that you will find fault in whatever saw you buy. Know it and live with it.
Well, I did it… I bought the new Delta 36-725. Overall, I think I made the right choice. HUGE thanks to all you guys. I appreciate everyones viewpoint.
knotscott, great write up on The ABC's of Table Saws!
thetinman, I would love it if you did a video on the router table addition or made a plan for it. I'd like to make the addition as well… It looks awesome!
knotscott, great write up on The ABC's of Table Saws!
thetinman, I would love it if you did a video on the router table addition or made a plan for it. I'd like to make the addition as well… It looks awesome!
If you like Bosch tools you'll love the Skilsaw 3310! This thing has all the safety features you could ever want (except for sawstop technology)! A riving knife, that big plastic thing that you slide the wood under, and those one spring loaded doohickeys on the back to prevent kickback. The aluminum table itself is for the environmentally minded individual - if you ever want to get rid of the saw it's easily recyclable! The fence is excellent as long as you always measure (at least) twice (front of blade to fence, back of blade to fence).
Let me know what I have to do to get you to drive this tablesaw off the lot today!
Let me know what I have to do to get you to drive this tablesaw off the lot today!
j_dubb,
Very kewl. I get it. I think I'm alone but very kewl.
Bsstone,
I draw and publish plans for all my jigs. I did not draw or publish plans for my router table because every saw is different. I did give the dimensions and build notes in my post that can be followed to reproduce the table and the fence.
I'm an old fart woodworker. I don't do videos. I don't text and I don't tweet. Everything you need is in the post.
Terry
Very kewl. I get it. I think I'm alone but very kewl.
Bsstone,
I draw and publish plans for all my jigs. I did not draw or publish plans for my router table because every saw is different. I did give the dimensions and build notes in my post that can be followed to reproduce the table and the fence.
I'm an old fart woodworker. I don't do videos. I don't text and I don't tweet. Everything you need is in the post.
Terry
if the choice is between the delta 36-725 and the bosch, go with the delta for sure. i own one. i got it back in january. and absolutely LOVE IT, i use it all the time and have 0 complaints about it, the throat plate is fine, and the 0 clearance and dado throat plates are supposed to be out at the end of summer.
Here is my Delta. It didn't take long at all and to me it was a simple assembly job.
thetinman:
I think I will follow the build notes to add your router table into my ts. I'll show pics when I'm done.
Thanks everyone for all the great input!!!
![Image]()
thetinman:
I think I will follow the build notes to add your router table into my ts. I'll show pics when I'm done.
Thanks everyone for all the great input!!!
Attachments
I started putting my Delta 36-725 together last night around 7pm. Made it to the front fence rails by 8pm (taking my time). Worked at the front rail until midnight, when I finally gave up and went to bed. No matter what I do, I can't get the wings level with the tables, and can't get the front rails aligned and straight.
Tinman's guide really helped a lot, but it looks like his front rails are flush to each other. I can't get mine flush no matter what. Maybe the holes in the table are machined improperly, but I doubt it. Further, the manual says to use screws, washers and bolts on the rails. What washers? Where? The rails are countersunk for the shoulder bolts, are you supposed to use washers on the bolt-side (inside the rail)? The manual shows nothing, and is worse than useless.
I was impressed with the 36-725 in person and excited to get it built, and normally I'm quite mechanically inclined. But I found it easier to rebuild and machine my Ford 393 stroker than build this stupid table saw. I'm very very frustrated with the rails and wings.
Tinman's suggestion to drink beer is quite appropriate. It calmed me down enough to get pretty close on the front rail last night, but Jesus… 4 hours? I must have inhaled too much of the spar urethane fumes I was using earlier on a workbench. LOL.
Also, I keep hearing people talk about contractor/hybrid saws as a waste of time versus cabinet saws. I've seen cabinet saws on roller stands and they aren't nearly as portable as the Delta. I'm really impressed with its stand. Really impressed with the saw as a whole, but it really can't be emphasized enough how truly horrible the manual and assembly process is. I mean, it's honestly the worst I've ever seen anywhere, with anything. To the point that I don't think correct assembly is possible for people without a mechanical background.
Tinman's guide really helped a lot, but it looks like his front rails are flush to each other. I can't get mine flush no matter what. Maybe the holes in the table are machined improperly, but I doubt it. Further, the manual says to use screws, washers and bolts on the rails. What washers? Where? The rails are countersunk for the shoulder bolts, are you supposed to use washers on the bolt-side (inside the rail)? The manual shows nothing, and is worse than useless.
I was impressed with the 36-725 in person and excited to get it built, and normally I'm quite mechanically inclined. But I found it easier to rebuild and machine my Ford 393 stroker than build this stupid table saw. I'm very very frustrated with the rails and wings.
Tinman's suggestion to drink beer is quite appropriate. It calmed me down enough to get pretty close on the front rail last night, but Jesus… 4 hours? I must have inhaled too much of the spar urethane fumes I was using earlier on a workbench. LOL.
Also, I keep hearing people talk about contractor/hybrid saws as a waste of time versus cabinet saws. I've seen cabinet saws on roller stands and they aren't nearly as portable as the Delta. I'm really impressed with its stand. Really impressed with the saw as a whole, but it really can't be emphasized enough how truly horrible the manual and assembly process is. I mean, it's honestly the worst I've ever seen anywhere, with anything. To the point that I don't think correct assembly is possible for people without a mechanical background.
DaveTheDude, I put my Delta 36-725 together without much trouble and I'm far from being a mechanical wizard. May be that beer was more of hindrance than a help. I don't remember it taking me more than a couple of hours, possibly three, from box to starting it up.
To All,
Sorry for the delayed response. I'm out of town on a family medical emergency that is dragging out longer than hoped.
Dave, I resonded to your assembly questions in the review
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3822
Sorry for the delayed response. I'm out of town on a family medical emergency that is dragging out longer than hoped.
Dave, I resonded to your assembly questions in the review
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3822
Good Morning! I bought the Delta 36-725 a few weeks ago and picked up the Bosch RA 1181 yesterday to mount on the wing. Any pointers? I have it clamped in now. Should I just get it as level as possible then drill and attach with two screws on each side? I've seen only one YouTube video on it, which was nice but I need more detail #beginner!
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