As an aside, and as others have said, for me the most important part of learning to be a woodworker has been learning the "old" techniques of joinery, ie. hand cut mortise/tenon joints, hand cut dovetails etc. Has it made me a better ww; not yet, most of my projects are still pretty rough around the edges. Will the attention to detail that the "old" joinery methods require make me a better ww over time; I hope!

 

Nope.

As to the statement "The crappiest hand tools sold today would have been an amazing fortune not that many years ago." as posted by David Kirtley….I really have to disagree strongly. If you took a modern Buck Bros. plane to nearly ANY decent woodworker of the past, they would laugh themselves to death if you even tried to charge the going rate of the day. Ditto to the horrifyingly bad, unsharpenable saws at the big box stores. The same for the multitude of chisel-like objects hardened to Rc30. The gimmicky jigs made of plastic. Etc. Etc.

Historically, hand tools were the de facto standard for most woodworkers who didn't have a steam/water powered shop. You can't spend all day adjusting the skew lever on your plane every third stroke.

The quality of the HIGH END tools of today might have impressed them though. Low end, never.

 

Olden times, back even only 40-50 years, tools almost mandated that most woodworkers had to take more time, hence more thinking, hence go slower and less prone to make mistakes. But they also did much more by hand, demanding more time overall.

That being said, I am amazed at the jigs that people come up with on this site to do particular tasks that might have been possible with both old and new tools, but make things more accurate, easier, time savers, etc. We are all trying to do extra things faster, better and jigs provide that.

So reasonably speaking, people buy new tools to get better results, more capability, do things quicker and with more accuracy, and if you don't want any of those, you probably are making things with hand tools.

I started out with old tools because it was all I could afford, and as time went by, I sold the old and I bought, and still do buy, the tools that will save me time, effort, my body, wood, and anything else in general that helps me get the job done correctly.

Why do this for what is most of us a hobby?
We as a human race have way less time than we did a few decades ago. Even retired people often have multiple hobbies, spouses, bucket lists, and lots of other things that drag them away from being a woodworker. People still in the workforce are usually overwhelmed with their jobs, families and bills. Woodworking is a pure luxury for those folks. And if you sell what you are making? You want it done on time, for the least cost, with the least amount of your time to maximize your profits.

So I guess overwhelmingly for me, old tools may not make you a better woodworker, but in some sense, new tools can add to your arsenal of abilities, and going forward better results.

 

I don't know if the vintage tools makes me a better woodworker, but it sure makes me enjoy woodworking more, and that's why I woodwork.

 

Yeah, the enjoyment factor and affordability have to be the two strongest PLUSES for using vintage tools. It is hard to deny that heritage aspect to woodworking. I still use daily, a pair of Yankee screwdrivers that I have had nearly 50-years. A simple tool that stands the test of time of still being very useful to own and use.

On the NEGATIVE side, at least to me, are those vintage tools that lack sound safety features. I for one, insisted upon buying a new TS in order to get the latest style splitter and riving knife. I purposely steered away from old Unisaws and the like because of that issue. I personally put safety over the cool factor, even though I am now improving my WW skill set as I complete more projects.

 

As far as old power tools go, I don't think I'd mind an old Unisaw as long as my Incra miter gauge fit the slot. I have no need for a splitter/riving knife as ALL my rip cuts are done on the band saw. A table saw to me is a fancy miter box/crosscut saw and not much more. I don't think a band saw without any shrouds or guards would really suit me though. Safety always comes first, even if it makes the build a bit slower. Besides, ripping on the band saw seems to save a bit of board footage due to the thinner kerf. Providing your saw is set up right, of course.

 

Great topic Horizontalmike. New or old tools don't make a woodworker. For myself I like using the tools that require hand skills, however I do use modern power tools for some tasks with two qualifications. I have to be able to justify the costs of the newer tool for the amount of use it will get or it has to help me to be able to keep doing woodwork because of some of the physical things I can no longer do. There is a place for the old and the new and the LJ's on this site help to keep it all going. Those that restore old woodworking tools be it hand or power make it possible for others to get the knowledge and or skills they need to make it possible for them to become a better woodworker or it encourages some to restore older equipment because that is what they want to do. I love the silky smoothness of a piece of hardwood that has been hand planed and scraped compared to that which has been run through a drum sander but I am not making a living at it anymore. Tools may make you faster or require less work but will not by themselves make a better woodworker.

 

Does using vintage tools make you a better woodworker?
Generally speaking, the age of a tool doesn't make you better, but I could see where the "primative" nature of the tool could contribute to greater skill. Using and caring for an antique could require more skill than a modern iron tool. I think people mostly "collect" vintage tools rather than use them. One good example of a vintage tool that is not used today is the shaper plane. It has been replaced by routers and shapers. Furniture makers way back had to make their own shaper planes for each profile used. Today profiles are standarized, although custom profiles are still available. Would you rather drive a Stanley Steamer or your modern automobile?

 

Thanks for the topic.

"my intent here is to get everyone to look inside themselves" - HorizontalMike

You certainly succeeded in my case. Hard to answer the question ("Do Old Vintage AKA Antique Tools Make You a Better Woodworker?") without going off on an tangent.

All of my power tools were made in this century. But most of my hand planes and hand saws were made 60 to 120 years ago. I enjoy restoring and using these old tools. I enjoy using my Veritas and LN planes too. But with the old tools there is a sense of continuity and history. I feel as if these old tools have some magic in them.

I woodwork as a hobby. I do it because I enjoy it. Do these old tools make me a better woodworker. Probably not. If I never had these old tools, I believe my woodwork would be the same. And I would still enjoy woodworking. But these old tools give me a little more to enjoy.

 

I include the use of handtools (that happen to be old) in my work because I want better results, with more accuracy, than I'd get using strictly new power tools.

 

Good question Mike. From my own personal experience I would that that it isn't the antiquity that makes one a better woodworker but the work that is required in order to make them useable that does have some benefits. No matter what tool you buy, be it a hand plane, a band saw, TS, chisel, etc. you will have to eventually tweak, sharpen, configure, change a blade, etc. You can get the nicest, sharpest, chisel ever made, but you will have to eventually hone it again. IMHO, this is the area where many new woodworkers struggle the most and find the most frustrating. I think that when you buy an older model and have to learn how to make it a useable tool, it helps train your mentality that tools have to be maintained and sometimes configured for better results.

David

 

David, great point. I bought a 10$ set of buck bros chisels, smashed them up and honed them about 200 times before I took my nice chisels to stones.

 

David, between you and Joe, I have to admit you seem to have all bases covered. It really is about paying attention, be it before or after, in order to get the most out of a tool. Some of us do NOT realize this when we first acquire the old tool, but surely we learn this important lesson before we successfully use that tool.

;-)

 

Boy I wish old tools made me a better woodworker I have a good number of them(just love the history behind them). I do wish I had started using hand tools rather than power tools to start with,this would have given me a better understanding of how things use to be made and have a better skills re the use of hand tools.I guess I'm more or less repeating the essence of the last line of your last post. To answer you question Mike, of course old tools in them self do not make us better woodworkers,but as one of my students said he thought having old tools around his shop made woodworkers and others think he must be a master woodworker if he had all those great old tools. We all know the proof is in the pudding(the things we make) not the tools we have.

 

"...as one of my students said he thought having old tools around his shop made woodworkers and others think he must be a master woodworker if he had all those great old tools. ..."

Yeah, and I think that is why we need to make sure we all truly understand the "real" nature and purpose of having these great old tools in our shops. Ownership is one thing,... and mastery another. Very good point Jim.

 

Also, not to date anyone here, but "old" is kind of a loose term. I consider myself a very modern woodworker. I will also admit that a huge part of why I am a woodworker is I love to play with power tools. I whipped up a dog feeding station tonight out of some scraps I had. In remembering this thread and looking around my shop, I had a strange thought:

There is not one tool I own that wasn't in my fathers shop. I am 35, so I started participating in woodworking in the very early 80's. Sure, some of my tools are a little fancier, but really there is nothing in my shop that he didn't have when he was in his 30's. I guess you also have to factor in that woodworking is one of the oldest trades on earth, but calling myself a "modern woodworker" when I am using "modern" tools that were invented and heavily used before I was born doesn't quite sound right.

 

Yeah Joe, and what really got me is that my 1846-1856 Cherry Drop Leaf Table not only has some of the very first machine manufactured screws, it also has some of the earliest Pocket Screws.
http://lumberjocks.com/projects/35712

Yup,... We're old… ;-)

 

That's amazing. I remember my dad making pocket holes with a forstner bit on a drill press with a jig he made. That seems like so much work to me now. The pocket hole jigs make things really simple.

 

Indeed they do, but I will continue to resist pocket screws in favor of other tried and true old techniques such as dovetails, M&T, and half-lap doweled joinery. IMO, it is easier to support older techniques than it is to support some of the older less(not?) safe tools.

 

I regard to the hand planes, I think a large part of it is the fact that people just like collecting them. I've read many posts where guys have 50 or 100 different handplanes (I can't imagine why myself). As to whether the old ones make you a better woodworker, the answer is of course not. I'm so new to this that I'm still trying to figure out how to sharpen my plane iron to the point where it will actually cut shavings off of a board, let alone actually working with it. I've been a power-tool kind of guy and I'm just dipping my toe into the hand-tool world, and wouldn't put myself up as a 'good' woodworker in that regard no matter what kind of plane you gave me.

 

47phord,
That is why I tried to differentiate between "collectors, restorers, and users" in the OP. Collectors and restorers have their own legitimate reasons for their activities. I only wanted to poll actual daily in-the-shop "users" to be fair. The answers have varied widely, in both directions. However, if you look at all those explanations, they are pretty much all well thought out and defensible. And many are NEW, as in having not been verbalized before. Quite a lesson for all of us.

 

Interesting topic from a newby prsspective. Each small project I've completed has taught me so much. I have enjoyed buying the tools as I need them. I have no access to vintage tools other than what I could buy second hand and I do not have the knowledge base to even know where to start with that endeavour.

I need practice, and I need tools with which to practice. All I can go on at the moment is everyone's opinion, reviews on this site, and my previous experience with certain brands. I figure if I buy the best I can afford without too many bells and whistles, I'll hopefully not be too far off the mark.

 

Do Old "Vintage" AKA "Antique" Tools Make You a Better Woodworker? ((((NO))))

 

Sandra,
Just be aware that you don't HAVE TO buy the most expensive to get "nearly" the best. Used can save you a lot, but be aware of "safety features" for the particular tool you are interested in. In my case I I refused to buy used when I was shopping for a tablesaw, since some of the newer safety features were important to me. On the other hand, I did pick up a couple of old hand planes off eBay that work nearly as good as new and were upgradable with new irons that made them perform as good as new.

You have the right idea about doing your research and doing an LJs search will bring up much needed information to help you make the correct choice.

 

The short answer is NO. That said, the sentimental value of using my grandfather's tools is priceless to me. I agree that some of those old power tools are dangerous and probably should be relegated to" admiring only" status. Good thread.