[Arthur2sheds]

Thanks again for everyone's help. Bandit's summary of how to use a hand saw is well-written and appreciated. I knew most of it already, but it is a helpful refresher. I hope others find it too.

It might help if I shared more about my experience with hand saws.

I've used a small set of Japanese pull-type hand saws for years. They include saws with and without spines on the back and a couple of flush trim saws, which are so nice to have. The Japanese saws are handy and I feel comfortable using them for simple cuts. I use a router and a jig for dovetails.

True Confession:
My father left me an American style hand saw. There are no markings on it, but a medallion says "Warranted Superior". I like it, but it is dull. I promise you, it was not my father who dulled it. I doubt he used his saw more than a handful of times. It may have belonged to his father or it may have been abandoned by a worker when it got dull. I doubt my father bought it himself.

The thought of sharpening my father's old American saw was daunting to me, because I know nothing about sharpening hand saws. The easiest solution was to buy a new hand saw, so I bought the Stanley. So far, that Stanley Sharptooth has been such a pain to use and leaves a very rough finish.

I had some small pieces to trim yesterday, and I reached for a Japanese hand saw. No way I could trust that Stanley Sharptooth to make a clean, simple cut-off. That Japanese hand saw made a 1/16 inch cutoff easy. I'll keep working with the Stanley; maybe it will get better with time and experience.

Now I wonder whether to search for a better American hand saw to buy or figure out how to sharpen my father's old saw, or live with what I have for now.

(Late edit: Fixed typo.)

Go to some "estate" sales in farm country. Every one I've been to has old rusted hand saws. Buy a few and practice sharpening them. Seriously it's the only way to learn. I've got the two types of saw teeth figured out, rip and cross cut. Rip is easy, just straight across. One tip I can provide is to file light and steady, use the whole file. At first I was using a manly technique of pressing hard and filing like mad. I was filing steel! It's strong, right? I burned up a lot of files using that technique and got inconsistent teeth. Also, I didn't use a saw vice I used a couple of strips of pine in my regular bench vice. Sharpening is good for me to do when I don't know what to do.

Here is a primer on how to sharpen. it's pretty detailed. I printed it out and keep a copy in the shop. Welcome to Vintage Saw's Saw Filing Treatise

 

[B1gCountry]

Saw sharpening as actually pretty simple, although it is fairly monotonous. It's also hard to mess up.

You do need a vise. Preferably a saw vise too, but you can use 2 scrap 1x2 lengths in a higher visewith enough depth. Clamp the teeth within 1/4" or so. This way they won't vibrate as you file them.

Then just file them with a 6" triangle file from HD. Follow whatever angle the teeth already have. This might mean you sharpen every other tooth at one angle, then you go back and do the other half with an opposite angle (ie, crosscut saws).

 

[Arthur2sheds]

Saw sharpening as actually pretty simple, although it is fairly monotonous. It's also hard to mess up.

You do need a vise. Preferably a saw vise too, but you can use 2 scrap 1x2 lengths in a higher visewith enough depth. Clamp the teeth within 1/4" or so. This way they won't vibrate as you file them.

Then just file them with a 6" triangle file from HD. Follow whatever angle the teeth already have. This might mean you sharpen every other tooth at one angle, then you go back and do the other half with an opposite angle (ie, crosscut saws).

The way I set the angle is to press the file in a groove so that it sets firm, and bingo their is the angle. Then all I have to do is copy it a hundred times.🤣

Also, I’ve found that Bahco files are better than Nicholson. They last a good bit longer and the teeth don’t break off.

If you sharpen a backsaw you will want a smaller file. They don’t seem to have them at HD. There are tables to show which file for which teeth. Basically big teeth big file, small teeth small file.

 

[B1gCountry]

@Arthur2sheds
I've never used the bahco files, but I do have some of the LV files which are made by who the heck knows. The tiny teeth are really annoying.

 

[aboveboard]

Back to that Stanley Sharptooth saw that started this thread:

Yesterday I decided to throw away a mostly-MDF pallet, The boards across the top were three sunbaked, gray 1/2 inch thick softwood boards, approximately 3 inches wide. I wanted to cut it in thirds to fit in our trash can, and that Stanley hand saw was the perfect saw for it. It would take six easy cuts (three boards) to divide it roughly in thirds.

I had rubbed Gulf wax (hard paraffin) over both sides of the blade body as suggested above. Honestly, it did not seem to make a difference.

The six crosscuts through the 1/2 inch softwood boards did not go well. That @#$@#$@!!! Stanley hand saw was very "grabby". Cuts did not "flow" smoothly through the dry wood. I made sure that the wood was not binding or squeezing the blade as I cut. My body, shoulder, and arm position were good. I got the job done, but it took an unreasonable effort - more than I would expect.

To add insult to injury, I didn't bother to bring gloves. I figured that 1/2 x 3 inch boards would cut fast and not need real holding power. I was wrong, and I had fun pulling out the splinters from my left hand that I needed to hold the pallet from wild movement under the saw action. In addition, the front tooth bumped the concrete once and broke off.

What should have been a 2 minute fun exercise was not. Not 2 minutes. Not fun.

I do not like that Stanley saw. I do not like it, Sam-I-Am.

 

[Crispy78]

We're you putting a lot of downward pressure on the cut? It's possible that saw is just junk, but you want to make sure your technique is good just to be safe.

 

[B1gCountry]

Some saws just suck

 

[aboveboard]

We're you putting a lot of downward pressure on the cut? It's possible that saw is just junk, but you want to make sure your technique is good just to be safe.

No. The saw was held at a typical angle. I push forward and pull back and let the weight of the saw do the cutting. I believe my technique is good. If I had one of my Japanese saws or my father's dull American saw, it would have gone much better.

That Stanley saw feels like sawing with needle points that grab and pull on every wood fiber rather than slicing through them.

Some saws just suck

Maybe so, but some people like those Stanley saws. Not me ... or at least not yet.

 

[bandit571]

Is it just one tooth being grabby?

Maybe run an oil stone down the sides of the tooth line...heel to toe..one pass each side...try the saw...and see IF it still wants to grab...

 

[aboveboard]

New Update:

I called Stanley a few weeks ago. They do not have a technical support expert who can help with product usage. All they have is "customer support" people who have little training in their products other than shipping, returns, replacements, etc. I can read the online feature descriptions for myself, thank you.

They sent a replacement saw, a different model. The original that started this thread was/is a Stanley 15-087 20 inch 8 TPI hand saw. The replacement saw is a Stanley 20-065 26 inch 11 TPI "FATMAX" hand saw.

The new 26 inch Stanley 20-065 saw is also labeled "Fine Finish" on the package. You can feel that the blade body is thicker than the previous 20 inch Stanley 15-087 saw.

I gave both saws a try on pine board scrap. The new saw was no improvement. The teeth are still very grabby and the saw is difficult to start cleanly or saw cleanly. Once the cut is started, the best way to saw is keep the blade flat across the cut (not angled) and apply no downward pressure at all. Allow the saw to "float" flat on the full width of the cut. The resulting cut is very rough, even with the new "fine finish" blade. When I threw the scrap workpiece in the trash, one of the tearout splinters drew blood. Just a normal splinter that we all experience from time to time. Fine finish? NOT.

It is clear to me that I need to sharpen my father's old saw or buy a premium saw or find a used one in good condition. I think sharpening my father's old saw is the best solution, but have no experience or tools for that. I may ask a local friend for help.

P.S. It has occurred to me that both saws may do better if they are "broken in" and not "pristine sharp". My hypothesis is that slightly worn tips are less grabby. ??

 

[AMZ]

I'm with Bandit, and running a stone down each side of the teeth. To me, it sounds like too much set.

 

[bandit571]

Hmmmm..

97 yr old saw...7ppi, 26" length...nice, comfy handle..

Not too bad a cut....

Cross cut in Ash...

 

[bandit571]

Hmmm, part 2

Have a Stanley 20" saw out in my shed..been sitting in a tool bucket for a few years...

A bit nasty looking..set up a test track...

1x 4 Ash scrap, and see how things go...

not counting a stop to wax the tooth line a bit..3 minutes...not bad, considering there are 11 missing teeth...

To get the saw to start, about 3 pulls to the rear, THEN, push forward...

Fine Finish?

Since this is a 7 pointer...not really all that smooth of a cut..

Teeth are NOT impulse harden...so...maybe it could be sharpened...someday?

 

[aboveboard]

Another update:

I am doing much better with the Stanley Sharptooth handsaw with those fine hardened teeth. My partner had some scrap boards to cut up and throw away yesterday, and the job went quickly with that "new" Stanley handsaw. I never followed @bandit571's suggestion to use a whetstone for a couple gentle passes on the side of the teeth; I did not want to mess with the factory kerf, at least not before I was done trying everything else.

I can't really say what is behind the improvement, but here are some guesses. Please remember that these are mere guesses:

• It takes practice to make it work. The more experience you have using it, the better you become and the better the saw cuts.
• The saw is especially grabby when it is brand new.
  • I think it needs a break-in period before it gets smoother.
• Make starter cuts at a decent speed with confidence. Don't be slow or hesitant.
  • I get it that some people are afraid that the cut will start in the wrong place or drift around and leave scratches. The solution for that is a confident first stroke that is not too slow.
  • The key is confidence. Really.
• All the usual hand saw techniques apply: arm and elbow position and straightness, use the full blade, angle your cutting, etc.

I hope this helps.