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Roubo Frame Saw

4.6K views 16 replies 7 participants last post by  DevinT  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
While I am not yet convinced that a Vaughan Bear Saw isn't the perfect resaw blade (thinnest Kerf I have ever seen with a blade thickness of 0.020" producing a kerf of just 0.026") which cuts extremely fast (like stupidly fast), I have been looking at Roubo frame saws for some time.

One happened to appear on eBay

Of course, the best solution for resawing by hand is to have a kerfing saw/plane that uses the same blade to produce a kerf around all edges of the board before you go attacking it with your frame saw. Obviously, I can't buy some more of the antique saw plate on the above frame saw for sale to make an accompanying kerfing saw/plane, so I think the value of the above saw is somewhat limited.

Also, the "one antique repair on one side" scares me though I can't exactly see what the seller is talking about.

Also, the "$210 for shipping" with only $45 sale price smells fishy (like seller wants to just avoid fees-I get that … so that's probably fine).

Thinking out-loud here, I think my best approach right now is to just stick with my Vaughan Bear Saw and just make a kerfing saw/plane for it.

I've watched a lot of videos of people using Roubo frame saws, and I have to say …

They look slow compared to my bear saw (which is a pull-style saw in the style of Japanese Ryoba saws). Like incredibly slow. The bear saw in my experience can rip a board 3x faster than an American rip saw. The plate on that antique frame saw looks fat as hell.

I wonder if anyone has ever found a source for a 3-foot long ripping blade that is as thin as the bear saw for making a razor-thin Roubo-style frame saw.
 
#2 ·
One of the reasons for the thick plate on most of the commercial roubo frame saws is that they're very coarse tooth. Like 3-6 ppi coarse. As such, you get a fair amount of torsion on the blade as he teeth engage, which can cause wandering early in the cut, which is hard to correct later.

Looks like the bear saw is 14 or 17 tpi, which is going to, all other things being equal, which they aren't, cut slower than a 4-7 tpi saw. But the tooth geometry is completely different.

Personally, I don't use my roubo frame saw mich any more. I resaw smaller stuff with the bandsaw with a 1/2 inch, 3 slash 4 tooth resaw blade. Or I resaw by hand with a panel saw, because switching to a pull saw for resawing after using western saws for everything else screws up my mechanics, and I can't saw a straight line to save my life if I do that.

I encourage you to experiment, but realize that you're using a comparatively fine-tooth saw, and something coarser may get through the material more quickly.
 
#3 ·
I tried a frame saw and could not get the hang of it. Just felt clumsy. I have a decent Royba, but again, not in tune with it.
Recently I took on learning how to tune a Western RIP saw. I have a cheap ( 4 bolt) 80's vintage Diston. It was slow as all get out. Then I tuned it up. I am converted. Drops through wood like butter. Only thing easier is my table saw. I now use it to pick where I want an edge to be rather than messing with a taper jig on the TS.

You are only going to get a thin blade on a blade under tension or pull. Thin blades on push don't work. Well, they do for a back saw for dovetails and tenons, but are supported.
 
#4 ·
Well, it's going to be a while before I have space for a band saw, and when I do get one, I plan on getting one that can cut metal (not sure if that requires coolant … the Guardian band saws seem to be able to cut hardened tool steel without coolant; though not sure what they cost).
 
#5 ·
I have a Roubo frame saw for re-sawing. I do not have a large bandsaw so I was re-sawing with a 26" 4-1/2 tpi rip saw - which was tedious and a complete sweaty workout. After doing a bunch of research, the absolute consensus was the Blackburn Tools kit. I opted for the 48" kit which has a 2-1/3 tpi saw plate. To say it cuts fast is an understatement. It is insanely fast. I would even be willing to put it up against a 16" bandsaw. It's also pretty effortless - I don't tired out or get sweaty.

When watching people use this saw on youtube you have to take it with a grain of salt. Almost every video I've seen is of someone who has just acquired or built one and doesn't have a ton of experience yet. I can re-saw faster than anyone I've seen on youtube (I've had mine for about 8 months now). Or maybe all of them have smaller saws than mine.

A kerfing plane isn't really needed. I would say it would slow you down. Nobody in the past ever used them - they are largely a modern invention. The reality is that once you get used to it, these saws cut VERY straight. The blades are beefy so they don't twist easily and the blade is under extreme tension anyway. Further, your body position and mechanics mean it's kind of hard to get off line in the first place. Maybe if you are trying to do 1/8" veneers, then maybe a kerfing plane would be worth the hassle. But I can confidently make ÂĽ" cuts. Before I built the saw I thought I "needed" a kerfing saw and planed to make one. But after my very first day with the saw I completely forgot about a kerfing plane as I realized I'd never use it.

I'm a pretty tall guy so I can handle a 48 saw. If you are a smaller person you might opt for their 36" saw. You throw the saw with your upper body and arms so if the combine throw is significantly less than 48", then there's no point to a saw that long. That said, what people say is true: get the biggest Roubo you can handle because it will only make things easier/faster. I don't see the point in a 32" saw unless you are 5ft or shorter.

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#7 ·
Wood By Wright has made a couple frame saws and loves using them. He has one video where he makes one from scratch using the Blackburn Tools kit ($114 - $135 depending on blade size). But I know from your Kerfing Saw thread that you're a bit unsure about Blackburn Tools, atm.

I love my Ryoba, but I'd hate to resaw with it. Even on short cuts my hand and forearm gets sore pulling on that handle. (And that's my right hand. I've been working on the grip strength in that hand since I was 13.)

I've been kicking around the idea of re-handling it so it had a vertical handle. I like the pull cut as I always seem to bind and bend the blade on a western style, push cut saw.
 
#8 ·
I have a similar experience with Western saws. Tried using a push saw when I was younger. It was unpleasant to say the least. Was convinced for 30 years that all hand saws were some joke. Tried a Ryoba, fell in love with saws.

However, a Roubo frame saw is under tension so can be pushed just fine without bending (its the bending that I didn't like in Western saw function-which perhaps in the proper hands wouldn't happen, but I could never use a push saw without it bending).

I have done a resaw with a Ryoba. It wasn't bad. In fact, my biggest problems in resawing with it was the rigidity and weight of my bench (or rather, lack of those things). Something I will have to solve eventually-building a workbench is on my to-do list.

I watched that video. And also this video where he admits that he has made not one, not two, but five Roubo frame saws.

OK, I am starting to think Blackburn is still in business (they just don't answer e-mails-but if you bring the green, they will send the steel)-I have trouble reaching both Blackburn and BadAxe.

With a newborn, it's easy for me to design something on my computer while the baby sits on my lap and then when I get a block of time to go cut it out. However, the less time that I can spend in making the tool that I need to build other tools is important to me and so that is why I was favoring Bad Axe because I can buy a finished product that I can pull out of the box and use. With blackburn, though less money which means my money goes further, I cannot use it right away. I have to acquire the wood, dimension it, ... yada yada. Normally I'd be fine with that, but … this is a tool to make dimensioning easier and I'm kind of loathe to dimension lumber for it.

At least it would make dimensioning easier once built, but that doesn't make dimensioning the lumber for it any easier.
 
#10 ·
I don't have a frame saw or a kerfing plane. I do my resawing on my bandsaw. But, what CCarter says rings true to me. With a saw plate that long and wide, as long as you start your cut carefully, you shouldn't have any issues keeping it true. My gut feeling is that a kerfing plane would be unnecessary for most resaw work unless you are using a saw that has a tendency to wander.
 
#11 ·
Mark at Bad Axe is still at work and in business. His wife passed away unexpectedly last year and I think she handled a lot of the online side of things so that may be why you haven't seen a response to e-mail? His IG account was active as recently as 4 days ago though so they're at work and in production mode.
 
#12 ·
Right. Which means I see three ways forward:

1. Change nothing. Continue to resaw by scribing a line with a marking gauge around 4 edges and then just carefully resaw with the Ryoba (it will wander but you can correct it and plane away any deformities afterward)

2. Buy a frame saw:

a. From Bad Axe:
i. Finished for $495-$545 (because I like maple and walnut-it's what I made this year's swap plane out of)
ii. As a kit for $195-215
b. Kit from Blackburn for $155 to $188 (sharpened and drilled)
c. From eBay for $245 for something the seller describes as "more of a wall hanger than functional"

3. Make a Kerfing Plane to keep my Ryoba on track

Option 3 seems to be the best approach right now, with option 2b being the most attractive frame saw which I will need.

So it would seem that the steps are:

1. Make Kerfing Plane to keep Ryoba on track
2. Dump the Kerfing Plane once you get a Roubo frame saw
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
OK, I see there have recently been some updates to the website. I am very sorry to hear that his wife passed. That must have been hard and I suspected some hardship was the reason for no response (as others had reported no responses as well).

Knowing that he's still in business, I am putting him back into the running.

Knowing that once I get the frame saw that I won't need a Kerfing Plane cuts down on the cost of having to purchase both (because whatever Kerfing Plane I build in the meantime likely wouldn't have produce a properly-sized kerf for the Roubo anyways). That means that I can focus on purchasing the frame saw.

Unless that is, if Kenny offers to just let me come by and use his bandsaw every time I need to do a resaw.

My other friend with a bandsaw just moved and hasn't got everything set up in his new location yet. So I'm fresh out of friends with bandsaws (I only had one anyway-in-person and local anyway).
 
#16 ·
another trick when building your skill is to use a knife wall. Its basically a much slower way to make a tracking kerf. Mark the line with a marking gauge or knife as normal and then take a sharp chisel and on the waste side of the cut, chisel at a 45ish degree angle so that you create a V shape groove with a flat side. You only need to do this on top and front side of board. Then when pulling your ryoba, start the cut, then pull it down, and it will take the path of least resistance-the groove, then tilt it back, then angle forward etc and keep repeating. After you've done this SEVeRAL times you can then take off the training wheels.l and your muscle memory will keep it on track or allow you to course correct.