[TopamaxSurvivor]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Hi Mike, I won't be pushing a plane. Other hand work depends on shoulder stress. Rotary cuff is a little upset with me. I over did it trimming trees at the Tree
Farm last summer. ;-(( Random widths and odd angles could get to be a bit of a pain if time is limited. If you really want to be authentic, fitting each as you go should be easily accomplished is time is not an issue.

 

[mafe]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

So!

This is status now. I will post my pictures of how I got there asap but it might be in a day or two.
Next week I will be off class, sorry Mr. teacher Mike (Hope I give you no grey hairs)!
Best thoughts,
Mads

 

[mafe]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Is it allowed to use silicone?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Laughs!

Best thoughts,
Mads

 

[stefang]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Mads I am more the pupil here learning from you and the others than the teacher. I more of an 'instigator' (sounds a little dangerous, it must be good) Great result on your bucket so far. Silicone is definitely not allowed, but there will be no prizes given out for a leak free bucket anyway, so no problem there.

I got just enough shop time in yesterday to get the new and improved bottom finished. I had to do other things than woodworking today, so no progress. I am glad you will be away for a few days as this will give me time to catch up with you, and maybe the others will be blogging their progress in the meantime. As for the gray hairs, they are already totally gray, so no worries about that. Enjoy your days off.

 

[Roz]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Very instructive, thank you.

 

[daltxguy]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Hi Mike. Ok, this must be the authority on how angles were determined and how stave widths were not a consideration, as long as the overall circumference was correct. These are brilliant! No explanation required!

 

[stefang]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Very possible Steve, to me the methods being used here for coopering looks like a more modern version of a method that could well have some similarity to how the ancients did it.

I'm still not entirely convinced that the ancients relied only on their eye to determine angles, and using different individual stave didn't necessarily preclude calculating aggregate stave widths using a method similar to that shown in your illustrations.

Consistency in sizing might have been important to customers who wouldn't want to feel short-changed, or who wanted vessels that could be used to measure out quantities without have to weight them, etc. I've always been amazed to read just how organized ancient craftsmen were with guilds and standards for their work.

 

[TopamaxSurvivor]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

I have never been around a cooper or any other full time WW for that matter, but watching a good fairer fit horse shoes is amazing. In just a few minutes of trial and error fitting by eye, he is done. If he is wrong, you have a horse that can't walk right now and lots of potential joint problems in the future. IMO, after having seen people who work with tools everyday reach an unimaginable level of basic skill and production speed, making a basic straight walled bucket should have been rather easy for the early WWs.

 

[mafe]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Topamax: what does this IMO means, now I have seen it so many times in your post that I have to ask?
I do agree in the skill level, but still it is likely they could have had a marker for the initial part.
Best thoughts,
Mads

 

[swirt]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

IMO - In My Opinion
IMHO - In My Humble Opinion

 

[TopamaxSurvivor]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Sorry, I didn't see your question Mads. Been out making firewood ;-)) I'm sure they used everything they had and could dream up. All I am saying is the level of skill aquired by a craftsman is unimaginable to a casual hobbyist.

 

[TopamaxSurvivor]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

There was an example of what I am talking about on the 2nd episode of Rough Cut with Tommy MacDonald on PBS. I recorded it yesterday as were out and about. I was just watching it. He is having Allen Breed demonstrate cutting dovetails. He set a marking gauge to thickness. Used his chisel to mark off 3 tails, let the dovetail saw hang from his finger as it cut so they would be plumb. The chisel chopped out the waste in a cut from each side as they were the width of the chisel. He used the pins to mark the tails, let the saw hand plumb to cut the pins and chopped the waste in a few whacks. Took me longer to type the description than it did for him to dovetail the joint!!

I googled trying to find a vid link, but none to be found ;-((

 

[mafe]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Topa, try to look at my guess:
http://lumberjocks.com/mafe/blog/21077
Thank you for the info, it is fine IMO… Smiles.
Best thoughts,
Mads

 

[mafe]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Look here:
And here are the answer to what the French do:

http://ecole2chenes.free.fr/travaux/annee2005_2006/tonnelier/source/2dolage2.htm
Smile:
Mads

 

[stefang]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Hi Mads, thanks for the link. This is coopering and not lagging like we are doing. Some things are similar such as the long upside down plane. I seems that their tools like the 'Clef' were used for creating identical parts and they would have several of these for different sized barrels with all the necessary dimensions angles and curves marked out for each size.

I can think that the lag guys also used something similar, but I don't know what, and I doubt we will ever know. As a profession I can imagine that lagging completely died out when coopering became the standard method to make wooden containers. I think many farmers and probably some professionals continued with lag work for quite a while, but it would be hard to find their measuring tools. It sure would be interesting to see if we could find some info on it though.

Besides being a better a better technical solution, the tapered shape of coopered barrel and the steel bands holding them together allowed for the barrels to be easily delivered, They could be taken off a cart and simply rolled into the customers place of business. With the tapered ends not touching the ground it was very easy to 'steer' the barrel while rolling them around.

 

[mafe]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Hi Mike,
Interesting thank you.
First of all I had no idea why whe barrel had that shape, quite clever.
Yes I see it also differently, but also quite the same, and I can easy imaigne that ways and tools have passed from this lagging to barrel making.
I think we just have a hard time to imagine things simple today, we want answers, ways rules.
We are to focused on effectivity.
It's like when you use this lagknife, it seems 'primitive' compared to a plane, but if that was the tool at hand, of course this was what they used. If the plane was not invented, how could it have been used… Or even more be in the thoughts of someone.
But also it shows a positive side of us humans, we want to find new and better ways, by nature, we cant just do, we question. And un this way you came up with a way with the string, and this inspred me to the marker, and this is how we develop.
I am aware of that it's cpooering and not lagging, but yet we spoke of tools to detrmin angels, and I think these could have passed from lagging to coppering. (Also we see it in the Russian book).
Mike we are becoming interlectuals here… we have to make room for our cavemen again Lol.
Best thoughts,
Mads

 

[TopamaxSurvivor]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Mike, is steering the primary reason for tapering a barrel?

 

[daltxguy]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Here are some videos on the modern production of barrels in the Cognac region of France. The woodworking aspect is now all automated but still fascinating and instructive, as the process has not changed.

 

[stefang]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

Mads Saws were also used to do the lag with. It is a small curved handsaw and I've even seen one mounted in a wooden from and revolved like table saw. So you just lay the stave into the frame and crank the handle to do the work of the lag knife. The waste still has to be chiseled out though.

The handsaw can be shop-made out of two pieces of would with a handle and a concave shape seen from the side. The saw blade is mounted between the two wood piece and I suppose the holes going through the sides of the saw frame could be slotted. That would allow for the blade to be adjusted to the proper depth of cut.

I didn't bring this into the project because I felt that too many elements would just be too complicated and slow thing down too much.

Bob I'm not sure. If barrels were transported packed together in the hold of a ship or on a cart. then it would be a lot easier to get a grip on the barrel to get it out of the hold or off the cart. On the other hand it seems that barrel were often stacked laying down. So it seems reasonable to assume that handling and moving them might be a good reason for their shape. I can't think of any other reasons offhand.

Steve Thanks much for the videos. I have to go now, but I will be taking a look at them later.

 

[TopamaxSurvivor]

-

This blog will be about showing you a plausible way that ancient man might have calculated the width of the stave's needed to make a bucket with the diameter he had in mind. First our logo photo of the bucket we are making and then a Swedish bucket made like ours from 1050 AD. I think this was the very first product sold by Ikea. And lastly a logo photo of the shop-made tools to make our bucket with.

""

""

""

CALCULATING THE WIDTH OF THE STAVE'S

Step 1. The bottom as a starting point
First we draw a circle representing the inside diameter of the bucket. Then we draw an outer circle. The difference between the two circles represents the the thickness of the materials we intent to use. I have used 15mm thickness in the photo below (I am just showing this metric to show the method). In this photo you see several things of interest. They are:

1. The inner and outer circles drawn on the bottom piece

2. A straight line intersecting the circle creating to equal halves.

3. A thin stick which has been bent around the outer circle and marked at each end with a black line denoting the beginning and ending of exactly 1/2 of the circle's circumference.

The clamping was done so I could photograph the set-up. In reality this could be handheld with a little assistance and then marked. The stick could also be a thin pliable twig and the markings could be with a knife in the bark (the ancient way?).

""

Step 2. String theory
Now we have a stick that has the length of 1/2 the circumference of the circle as a starting point. Now we need a way to divide that stick into 6 equal lengths, or 1/2 the number of stave's we wish to use. !/6 of that length will of course be equal to the width of one stave.

But, it seems to complicated to try to equally divide that stick since we ancients have no rulers and we don't know how to divide.

The easy way is replace the stick with a piece of string that is flexible and can be folded. So in photo 1 you see that we place a piece of string on our stick and mark the string to be cut at the same length.

""

Now we can fold the string in two and cut it in half. That half will now represent 1/4 of our circles circumference as shown in photo 2 below.

""

Next we take one of the halves of the string and fold that into 3 as shown in photo 3 below. and cut the 3 lengths as shown in photo 4. We don't really have to do the cutting, but it looked a little messy just folded. If you haven't fallen asleep by now you will probably notice that the 3 string pieces aren't exactly the same length. Sloppy folding! Anyway I picked out the longest one to use as my stave width. It was 7cm. So at last I had my Stave width! (fanfare).

""

""

Determining the edge angle
As I've said more times than you want to hear, with 12 stave's the edge angles will have to be 15 degrees for us to get the stave's tight against each other and in a circle. Here's how our ancient bucket maker might have done it.

Step 1. prepare a mock stave
My mock stave is shown in photo 1 below. It is the same thickness as my real staves will be. I have cut it to a width equal to that remaining piece of string. Modern man would call it 6.6cm in width. Only the height is not the same as a real stave. Who cares? The mock stave has been positioned with the right back corner just touching the radius line where it intersects the outer circle. The left corner is just is also sitting on the outer circle. We mark that point on the left onto the outer circle where it intersects with the left corner.

""

Now we draw a new line from the center of the circle and straight through the dot we just marked as shown in photo 2 below. That radius line is shown in photo 3.

""

""

Next we reposition our mock stave back in the same position and we easily draw our angle line on each side.

""

PROVING THE ACCURACY OF THE METHODS
I hope that if you weren't impressed that you were at least a little amused at my convoluted way of doing this. But now we want to prove if these methods are viable.

The stave width
I didn't think I would get 100% accuracy with my method, but I wanted to get close. The result will be used only for the first 11 stave's. The last stave aka the 'weeping stave' will be a different size, smaller in this case, which is always better that wider in my opinion.

I checked the results of my method with coopering math and based on the outer ring diameter, which told me that the circumference was 82.3cm resulting in a uniform stave width of 6.86m.

That compared to a circumference of 84cm using the width based on the length of the little piece of string. which indicated a width of 7cm.

However I won't know about the discrepancy until I get to the last stave and see that the opening is 1.7cm too narrow to fit a stave with a 7cm width. So the last stave will have to cut down to 5.3cm to fit.

The angle
Lastly I checked the derived bevel with my bevel thingy and it was indeed 15 degrees. So another huge success. (applause).

""

Well that's it for now. Tomorrow I will be starting over on a new bucket. I'm not sure how far I will get. I hope this blog will make things easier for the purist who want to do as much of the work as practical in the old way.

Here again is the link for the enlightened ones to learn cove cutting on the tablesaw. A really great link it is too. http://woodgears.ca/cove/index.html

Thanks for reading and I hope you find it helpful.

It possible adds a bit to the structural strenght. It is slightly trianglization (if that is a word?).

I'll take a look at the French too, thx .