Please don't get all defensive over my question. I don't own a Sawstop, but I do appreciate it's safety feature. We all know nothing is perfect. The best tool, car, machine, airplane, etc; you get the point. That said, What is the probability that any flesh sensing technology, (Sawstop) could fail resulting in loss of fingers or more? Any such failure would result in a massive law suit. Maybe that is why Steve Gass sold it to TTS, to avoid any possible litigation. What are your thoughts on this?
MrRon
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How safe is Sawstop?
Either way, it's still safer than a normal table saw. I don't own one, but I wish I did.
It's reliable enough that most people on the Internet are worried about false positives/inadvertent trips.
The circuit itself probably has been tested to one failure in 10,000 or 100,000 , which would be 99.9999 or 99.99999% reliable. I don't know this for a fact, but that is typical for things like airbags and explosion prevention systems which use similar curcuitry.
My thoughts are that Gass did not sell out over this fear. The saw has been on the market a long time now, and cut hundreds of thousands of hot dogs. If it didn't work, the haters would have made sure we know about it. The sale to Festool parent was probably about cashing in, free capital to grow the business, and access to international markets.
Brian
The circuit itself probably has been tested to one failure in 10,000 or 100,000 , which would be 99.9999 or 99.99999% reliable. I don't know this for a fact, but that is typical for things like airbags and explosion prevention systems which use similar curcuitry.
My thoughts are that Gass did not sell out over this fear. The saw has been on the market a long time now, and cut hundreds of thousands of hot dogs. If it didn't work, the haters would have made sure we know about it. The sale to Festool parent was probably about cashing in, free capital to grow the business, and access to international markets.
Brian
Like Brians point at the end…
If there were videos of hotdogs getting cut in half, at a woodcraft or woodworking show, it would be all over the internet/youtube… showing the '1 time it failed' to be trumpeted by everyone that didn't like Gass, to say SEE SEE SEE!!!! it is crap and doesn't work!!
If there were videos of hotdogs getting cut in half, at a woodcraft or woodworking show, it would be all over the internet/youtube… showing the '1 time it failed' to be trumpeted by everyone that didn't like Gass, to say SEE SEE SEE!!!! it is crap and doesn't work!!
I doubt he sold in fear of a lawsuit. He would not be able to even go to market if he did not have some sort of liability insurance. I'm sure it's very expensive but he would be covered. He's an attorney, he would have made sure his bases are covered.
I seriously considered a Sawstop but my needs were better met with a format table saw. It has it's own safety features in that the hands go nowhere near the blade and you are off to the side of the blade in event of kickback.
I have my reservations about his methods of trying to get a law passed and that does turn me off, but in the end, it is a safer product. It's like dust collection. There's a cost vs safety ratio that everyone has to consider for themselves.
I seriously considered a Sawstop but my needs were better met with a format table saw. It has it's own safety features in that the hands go nowhere near the blade and you are off to the side of the blade in event of kickback.
I have my reservations about his methods of trying to get a law passed and that does turn me off, but in the end, it is a safer product. It's like dust collection. There's a cost vs safety ratio that everyone has to consider for themselves.
Listen. It works. The safety in a SawStop is there. That has been proven. ALSO the saw is of fantastic quality. It is an excellent unit. I believe most woodworkers if given the option would replace their own table saw with a SawStop. I can't afford one, and I don't believe I will ever spend what it costs to buy one. I am happy with the cabinet saw I have; so I just pay more attention when I use it. I don't have that safety net. Ideally, you would have the safest saw and be as safe a woodworker as possible. How important is it to you? Again, it's out there and it works. IF you want the safest table saw, get a SawStop. If you want to be a SAFE woodworker, a SawStop isn't needed, but it helps.
Oh and as for costs as I inadvertently posted in another forum that I thought was about table saws…
The ER bill will be more than the table saw guaranteed. So take it for what it's worth. IMHOAs of today, i will only buy a sawstop.![Image]()
Massive jagged fracture, 15 stitches (Not enough meat for the rest), so I d say price the sawstop. Imho
- doubleG469
Attachments
Always that one guy without a sense of humor and has a need to chastise other for their sense. Just saying.
A good sense of humor is a sign of psychological health.
https://qz.com/768622/a-good-sense-of-humor-is-a-sign-of-psychological-health/
My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.
We all know that sawstop works and is a solid product.
What we don't need, however, is for people to start becoming careless.
Remember, just because gun safeties work doesn't mean we point a loaded gun at someone with the safety on and pull the trigger.
We all know that sawstop works and is a solid product.
What we don't need, however, is for people to start becoming careless.
Remember, just because gun safeties work doesn't mean we point a loaded gun at someone with the safety on and pull the trigger.
Someone above mentioned…you can bet that when a SS fails the news will spread like wildfire through forums and other social media. I'm sure there's a chance, but it's extremely small. One other thing, I always wondered about the "shelf life" of the cartridges…apparently there is none; good to the day they are tripped. I know a fellow on another forum tripped his. It was the original in the saw; purchased in 2006.
I read a post about someone who turned the sensor off for a cut. Didn't turn it on and next time he was in the shop made a couple of mistakes and lost a bunch of fingers. I'm sure the tech is pretty good or like people have said someone would have pointed it out. You can't count on the human aspect of the "tech" though and we'll still make mistakes like thinking the safety is on when it isn't. (Just to add to Tay's point)
DMO0430, as I read your post, something jangled my (limited) memory, so I checked, and SawStop says:
"When you have completed your cut, push the Start/Stop paddle in to turn off the motor. The safety system
will remain in Bypass Mode until the blade comes to a complete stop. Once the blade has stopped, the
safety system returns to normal Standby Mode. The next time you start the motor, the safety system will be
active unless you repeat the procedure described above to start the motor in Bypass Mode." I recall that because I had the same question in my mind about using the bypass…
richimage
"When you have completed your cut, push the Start/Stop paddle in to turn off the motor. The safety system
will remain in Bypass Mode until the blade comes to a complete stop. Once the blade has stopped, the
safety system returns to normal Standby Mode. The next time you start the motor, the safety system will be
active unless you repeat the procedure described above to start the motor in Bypass Mode." I recall that because I had the same question in my mind about using the bypass…
richimage
Yep, the accident as described isn't possible unless there was a major malfunction with the saw. It (the safety system) resets after it's switched off.
I am a SS owner/user and former salesman for a local business that was dealer at the time. I am very fortunate that my boss gave me one when I retired because it saved my left index finger. I have also performed the hot dog test quite a few times in trade shows. Guys, it works! Period!
As far as becoming careless I find it actually serves as reminder to be more careful but, yes I still made a mistake.
And I assure you the scenario described by TaySC is not possible.
As far as becoming careless I find it actually serves as reminder to be more careful but, yes I still made a mistake.
And I assure you the scenario described by TaySC is not possible.
I am a SS owner/user and former salesman for a local business that was dealer at the time. I am very fortunate that my boss gave me one when I retired because it saved my left index finger. I have also performed the hot dog test quite a few times in trade shows. Guys, it works! Period!
As far as becoming careless I find it actually serves as reminder to be more careful but, yes I still made a mistake.
And I assure you the scenario described by TaySC is not possible.
As far as becoming careless I find it actually serves as reminder to be more careful but, yes I still made a mistake.
And I assure you the scenario described by TaySC is not possible.
SawStop technology will not prevent kickback, which is probably encountered more often than run-ins with the blade. That's what a riving knife is for. And yes, I'm aware that SS has a riving knife.
Without faulting the safety of Sawstop, I still say I like the Bosch technology (Reax) better. If you can simply drop the blade below the table, why slam it into an aluminum block to stop it, likely damaging the blade, and (I can't help wondering), maybe other components too, such as arbor or bearings?
Without faulting the safety of Sawstop, I still say I like the Bosch technology (Reax) better. If you can simply drop the blade below the table, why slam it into an aluminum block to stop it, likely damaging the blade, and (I can't help wondering), maybe other components too, such as arbor or bearings?
I'm not against anyone buying SawStop. I'm not against anyone not buying SawStop. It's you decision, your money. I didn't care for Grass's tactics.
How safe is SawStop? I don't know. I have read/heard many times that anything electronic will fail sooner or later.
How safe is SawStop? I don't know. I have read/heard many times that anything electronic will fail sooner or later.
You are correct but kickback is one of the leading ways that a hand gets sucked into the blade so, besides the riving knife, it does have added protection for kickback.
I have a SS cabinet saw. Luckily I haven't experienced an incident with flesh. However, I was cutting a tricky angle with a tenoning jig and wasn't paying attention on setup. The blade touched the jig (dado insert and blades) and disappeared abruptly as soon as the metal made contact with the blade. I could not see even a paint chip on the tenoning jig. The brake slammed up and the inertia retracted the blade before I knew what happened. $89 for a new aluminum brake, blade was salvageable. Fingers, I still have 10. If a high quality saw sells for the same price as other high quality saws, and throws in tis safety feature, why not buy it. As someone mentioned earlier, your ER bill will be far more expensive than the saw, not to mention the embarrassment of having to explain that your circumvented safety because you thought it was a gimmick. Why risk it. If the saw were an inferior saw, well maybe a case. But this saw is fantastic and will work one to one with any saw out there.
I hate their business practices and how they sued to keep other manufactures out of the market place with similar technology
I also will never own a Apple product for how the run their business and how they have negatively effected the technology sector and Apple fighting against #RightToRepair
I try to avoid Evil Companies but it is getting harder and harder to do at this country is in failure mode
I also will never own a Apple product for how the run their business and how they have negatively effected the technology sector and Apple fighting against #RightToRepair
I try to avoid Evil Companies but it is getting harder and harder to do at this country is in failure mode
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