Hey Jim:

Charles Neil has a number of disclaimers and disclosures on some of his videos. Bet he would be willing to share info with you.

Skip

 

Thanks Skip I'll ask Charles

 

I can email you the form the atty in the gun club wrote for our matches if you want it. Aanything that covers guys shooting handguns and rifles should cover a little sawdust production ;-))

 

MY DISCLAIMER- IF YOU CUT ANY BODY PARTS OFF WHILE IN MY SHOP, YOUR THE STUPID ONE AND I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE. IF ITS BAD ENOUGH AND BLEEDS, USE A BAND-AID, IF NOT DONT WHINE ABOUT IT AND GET BACK TO WORK. ......hows that jim…it seems to work LOL….way to go…im grining ear to ear buddy…...

 

Thank you Bob that would be great and thank you Grizz

 

grizz

I think he's from Oregon (where California people move when the politics get too conservative). I would proceed very cautiously on that one. I have heard that many schools have discontinued shop classes because of liability concerns (sigh).

Big concern for me would be the liability insurance. Does it cover "commercial" enterprises or is it strictly for home-owner use?

And then how old are your students? Above the age of consent? If yes do you trust them to accept personal responsibility if they do something stupid?

I hope a lawyer steps in here and can advise on wording for free. Otherwise, I would look to the wording on any machinery manual (those first 10 1/2 pages of the 11 page book). Then see if you have a ticket to a hockey game and read the language about "assumed risk".

I am not a lawyer and I hope you can share your knowledge with people that may or may not get the "bug" (and perhaps keep them off the streets!). But unfortunately we have some litigation problems in our country.

 

Teejk
good point but my insurance is commercial and I defiantly only teach 18 years or older , except when i volunteer at my local high school wood shop. Most of Oregon is not were you move when your to conservative but there's tons of Californians up here for sure
Thanks for your in put.

 

Jim, Your's is a very timely request. I have been approached by several people to do some basic woodworking and turning classes. I have a liability policy and a general liability release for horsebackriding and carriage riding on our farm but want to have something for woodworking. Would you or anyone else consider sharing their liability waiver with me?

 

Ken If someone shares with me I'll be glad to pass it on but I'm afraid I'm not able to share the cost if that's what you had in mind. Maybe there are others that can participate.

 

Jim, No I'm more than willing to pay the fees myself. I, like you am looking for ideas on what to include in what I have already written up. Thank you.

 

a1Jim - here is something I posted on the chip carving class blog -

We must assist those lawyers to save us from ourselves……So Please folks….please do not drive a car or operate heavy machinery until you know how "XXXXXX" will affect you…..Stop "XXXXXX" immediately if you notice that you are missing fingers, toes, have blurred vision with night sweats, bleeding from the ears, nose or eyes….inability to obtain and hold an erection, thoughts of suicide or just want the 2012 holocaust to hurry up…..these are serious side effects and should be reported to your doctor immediately….stop "XXXXXX" if you find you are suddenly without breath or have feelings of depression and want to carve up the politician on your tv screen…these too are life threatening side effects….you should check with your doctor to see if you are healthy enough to "XXXXX"…….whew…..I give up…there are several pages more of cautions…

Honestly, you wish folks could take responsibility for theirselves. I understand if somebody gets hurt due to negilgence or by malice…..but an accident is an accident.

Seriously, you should contact your insurer and ask them if they have a recommended disclaimer….I believe that OSHA and your state counterpart might help as regards to possible regulations you must abide. You should provide each participant with a safety pamphlet (similar to what you find on power tools).....and stipulation that anyone not following the safety rules or operating machinery without proper protection will be ejected without refund. It is harder to blame you if you have a safety policy documented, in force and enforced.

 

a1

good to hear that not all of your great state has the "litigation flu". stay away from "smart-ass" language on your waiver (might be funny at the time but not so funny if something bad happens).

now knowing you have a commercial policy, they may be the best source of your language since they will ultimately be the ones defending you if something goes bad. However it's back to the trust thing with them as it may send some alarms off and they'll make this a big deal.

wait and see if a lawyer chimes in. in the meantime I'll see if I can find anything that might give you a good start. the wheel has to have already been invented here (and quite frankly any potential damages won't attract any lawyer unless somebody cuts their head or a major limb off…yachts are expensive and a few thousand here or there aren't going to interest them).

 

reggie…all I can say is (sigh)...but that's the country we live in and I'm too old to move.

 

PM me an email if anyone wants the one I sent to Jim.

 

Hadn't thought of asking my insurer .I'm a little concerned about it being as long as a book and use a lot of legaleze type language .

 

For what its worth; The attys at the gun club said they are basicaly worthless but eveyone has them signed anyway.

 

Hi a1Jim,
Here are a couple of possible examples for you to have a look at. Both are related to woodworking classes.
http://www.jdlohrwood.com/serv05.htm
http://www.dogwoodwoodworking.com/Registration

You might still want to run your final version past a pair of legal eyes before you start using it.
Good luck in your search.

 

How about this one a former boss told me.

"If you are dumb enough to use a tool incorrectly after me telling you how to do it the correct way for the 100th time and, parts of you fall on the floor, you deserve it!"

;0)

Jack

 

"Watch your fingers, watch your toes, keep your goggles on your nose. We can make our equipment and actions accident proof but not idiot prof" When I was a first line supervisor this was my safety talk for my guys, 2,039 days without a nick or a bump. I think it was the record. Good luck buddy.

 

That's a good one, I like it ;-) I'm gonna use it if I ever hire another employee.

 

Lots of great ideas thanks for the help.

 

Google it. There are things out there for everything and some are free.

I wouldn't teach in these times. We are the cause for making laws for everything, Now we can reap the rewards (fines) and the lawyers now get the pay day. (A shame)

If anything pay to get the statement Jim CYOA. Hope you know what that means.

 

Hey Jim
I know we don't see eye to eye on tools but I thought I might can give you some info as a group of us tried it here in Ga. 1st make sure you have a proper business license to operate out of your shop. I'm assuming you do since you have a biz there already. Check with your local county too see if you need a variance to teach . Our county shut us down(it was a strictly volunteer program) as we had no license to operate a biz. We had a 40×60 ft. shop with 3 tablesaws,3 bandsaws,2 shapers,3 DP's,4 router tables and all the assorted other power tools necessary to teach classes for free and still got shut down by our county that had discontinued woodshop classe's due to insurance liabilitys. We also were on private property but a neighbor complained because of the noise in the evening(must have been on the property cause it sits on 5 acres). Insurance is a really big deal because of the liabilitys you'll assume for anyone injuring themselves. Your agent should be able to set you up with a blanket policy,but I'd suggest getting and umbrella of at least 2 million just in case. Teaching woodworking is an admirable skiill to pass on too youngsters we had about 3 housewives and a few older guys and a handful of kids and really were enjoying teaching them but the powers that be shut us down until we have all the proper permits and qualifications. You might need to insure you check all the local and state gov't entitys 1st to see if they'll even let you. Just my $.02

Good Luck,Tommy

 

Thanks Tommy
Actually I've been self employed for almost 40 years and a wood shop owner and contractor for 22 years and Yes I made many of those mistakes back when I started in business back then.I've been teaching adults woodworking for 10 years and yes it is rewarding. I have all the areas covered you listed but I think they are all good and valid points For others thinking of a similar venture .

 

In WA state I have been approached by several parents who would like to have me apprentice their high school kids in the art/science of woodworking. I talked with my atty and insurance agent and the general feedback was DON'T DO IT!!!! in WA state I would have to pay workers compensation and unemployment insurance on an apprentice. If they were to get hurt, even doing something stupid that I taught them many times not to do, I would be responsible for their rehab and recovery for as long as it takes. In WA state our recovery and rehab allowance is 10 times longer then most other states.

I was also approached by the local community college to teach woodworking classes in my shop. They wanted me to pay for all materials, personal safety equipment (aprons, ear protection and eye protection, gloves ,etc.) plus carry insurance on each student and have the classes in my shop. And all this for $17 per hour no matter the number of students. I don't know about anyone else, but that sure seemed like a loosing proposition for me. I politely said no thank you.

It seems that lawyers, Oprah, Dr. Phil and all those knock-offs along with lawsuit happy people have made it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to pass on our passion and knowledge of this wonderful trade to young and old alike. When i was young (early teens) I worked on a dairy farm (DANGEROUS) for many years. The deal between the farm owner and my dad was a handshake.