I’ve seen people pare pins with the grain and this is really a no-no, or at least you better have real straight grained wood. You should be paring across grain, which avoids catching a wild grain and is more accurate. It shouldn’t be difficult with a sharp chisel. There is a risk of tearing out. The far side, the trick is to do a swooping or shearing cut as you approach the far edge of the pin. I go from the outside in so any tear out isn’t seen.

If you are paring across the grain it‘s either a matter of technique, the chisel or sharpness.

 

This very issue, IAS, is why I don't favor any sort of slight back bevel on paring chisels. On utility edges like "beater" chisels, a very slight back bevel adds a great deal of strength to the cutting edge. But for the reserved use "fine" chisels sharpened to 25° I don't care to do more than strop off the burr on a hard surface with entire back resting on said surface.
I've found this issue to be minimized when using a marking knife to score the layouts. The chisel will "fall" into the score line and with good technique behind it, push cleanly along the joint plane for a perfect match. A marking knife has only one bevel so the flat side transfers the target precisely. Sometimes that score is hard to see, so i darken it with a #7 mechanical pencil.
DanK

 

A sharp chisel
I use a guide block on top of the board, be sure it is 90. I get it as close as I can and if I need a bit more just tap with a mallet to take another sliver off.

 

If you are that close, often just some 120 grit PSA on a popsicle stick can jet the fit dialed in. Potential for rounding over if you can't keep it straight and flush. Small files can also work or even a scraper with a square front edge (no burr) being pushed at a steep angle. A non-aggressive bite is the key.

 

I'll share something with you I read in holtzappfel that I've never seen anyone say.

Paring chisels typically have trouble staying in a really shallow cut and what you're doing is very easy to go from tight to "oops that was the wrong place to remove wood and that was too much of it, too".

Holtzappfel describes rolling a very light burr down on a paring chisel. Not like card scraper, but taking the very apex of the edge and running across it with something really hard (polished file edge, whatever) so that the apex is turned down in a direction it will start a very fine cut.

that said, you shouldn't need to do it. My best efforts this this are to start the cut in on the tail and toward the grain and light. so figure like 1/8th below the tail, pare in a little, register the chisel then on the area that is below the top and rotate a light cross grain cut or three (carefully) to bring the uncut part at the end of the endgrain into the same level as the part you just pared.

You might find it easier to adjust the socket than a pin, too.

A file is also a suitable tool, but keep your finger on the file pushing the file flat onto the wood while moving it (not a fine file, something with some tooth, but less so than a float). Otherwise, you'll round things off a little bit or do a biased cut left to right or up or down.

by the way, this comment about the light burr is the lightest of light you can think of - a chisel will not have an edge where the apex can be deflected very much at all before it comes off.

 

My chisels don't have back bevels. I know for a fact they're sharp as well. I was pretty sure it was just something I'm doing, or not doing that is the issue.

I've watched a lot of Rex Kruger, Paul Sellers and Wood by Wright, and I swear I'm emulating what they would do to shave a pin, I just can't seem to get it.

I also always use a marking knife. I do use one when I can even to mark material to shave off, but sometimes I need to remove so little it's basically impossible to put a clean score on it.

If you are that close, often just some 120 grit PSA on a popsicle stick can jet the fit dialed in. Potential for rounding over if you can't keep it straight and flush. Small files can also work or even a scraper with a square front edge (no burr) being pushed at a steep angle. A non-aggressive bite is the key.

I might just start trying this when I get that close. Though I'd still like to be able to just quickly shave it with a chisel and not give myself more time and ways to mess something up.

That's how I approach most things right now. Don't rush but get it done as quickly and accurately as possible. Because I've found that if I spend too long messing with something I almost always manage to mess it up.

pare in a little, register the chisel then on the area that is below the top and rotate a light cross grain cut or three (carefully) to bring the uncut part at the end of the endgrain into the same level as the part you just pared.

If I'm understanding it right, this is the method I've adopted a lot of the time. But even that doesn't guarantee success for me.

 

I just use a coarse Needle file, with the left hand holding onto the very tip of the file...

IF you watch Sellers..you will note 1) the grip he uses...left thumb on top of the chisel, left index finger is curled under the chisel, and usually, is resting against the board being pared...2) Chisel will slide just enough, to allow you to pare. 3), he pares toward the center of a board, then, rotates the board, and pares from the other face. 4) since he does use a "Knife Wall" as the Baseline, the chisel will start in the line, and pare off anything above it.

Lot of times, I will simply stand up, place the chisel where it needs to go, place my chin on the butt of the chisel's handle. I can sight down the chisel, hand doing the guidance, chin providing the power...( I don't have chisels long enough to use my shoulder, as the Old Timers did...chin does have a cushion, my beard...

Bad part about adding a guide for the chisel to ride on....guides can move...and..any dust between the back of the chisel and the guide, will throw you off.

 

Oh and I do use a guide a lot of times. Cuz I'm terrible at eyeballing 90 degrees. So when it really matters I use this:

I got it from Temu lol. It practically never leaves my bench though. And I've checked it with a known good square, it's dead on.

But I found that I can put the chisel back against it and then pinch the blade and my fingers through the hole in the back and pretty easily get a perfect 90.

But it's hard to do on fine work. I was thinking make a jig to make the process easier but there there's set up and all that stuff and I'll just end up not using it most of the time anyways.

Edit: if I get the chance at work tonight I'm gonna go rewatch them doing chisel work see if I can figure something out.

I also plan to try the cross grain method. Drawer will need dovetails too so I can try it then

 

are you using the same woods they're using?

 

Have no idea. I watched a lot of videos and saw how they use the tools on a lot of different woods. There's no way I'm gonna remember every wood I've seen someone on YouTube work lol.

I watched A LOT

I already knew every tool had a technique to it, I was trying to absorb as much of that before I even had the money to buy the tools.

Worked with planes. I have 0 issues with them despite the fact the last time I messed with one was probably 7 years ago and back then I still couldn't get it to work for me.

I picked up a used Stanley, tuned and sharpened it and went right into dimensioning lumber with almost no issues because of all the watching I did.

 

Have no idea. I watched a lot of videos and saw how they use the tools on a lot of different woods. There's no way I'm gonna remember every wood I've seen someone on YouTube work lol.

I watched A LOT

I already knew every tool had a technique to it, I was trying to absorb as much of that before I even had the money to buy the tools.

Worked with planes. I have 0 issues with them despite the fact the last time I messed with one was probably 7 years ago and back then I still couldn't get it to work for me.

I picked up a used Stanley, tuned and sharpened it and went right into dimensioning lumber with almost no issues because of all the watching I did.

it's not important necessarily which wood they're using but rather that when you're getting certain woods - like dried older fir or yellow pine, some things are going to be a real pain to dovetail.

if the demos are being done with fresh white pine from the hardware store, the wood is still a little bit wet and everything is easy with it. I doubt anyone is using mahogany, but I'm pretty sure they missed in the Bible that God created Cuban and Honduran Mahogany for woodworkers on the 8th day.

One of the things I erred on early on was first focusing too much on dovetail perfection and second not being serious enough about getting better wood.

The last thing I built with yellow pine ( a painted bed), I ended up cutting the tenon joints right off of the saw. It was so hard in the late wood that it was like glass, and the early wood was like powder. It just destroyed an older wide buck brothers chisel I had (only a dollar chisel, though!)

 

Sorry if I missed it, but you didn't say how you are paring them, did you? Across the grain? I've seen videos of guys paring both with and across the grain. Going across the grain it's pretty easy to pick up an entry point.

How are you marking your pins, pencil or knife line?

What chisels are you using?

The issue I see with files and sandpaper is unless you are very careful you can end up with a convex pin, IOW round over the edges.

What would be super helpful is if you could post a video of how you're doing it.

 

With the grain, standing over it so I can better judge the angle and sight down the back of the chisel and my line.

I actually use both. Pencil is easier to see when I'm sawing, but to get it precise I use a marking knife and marking wheel.

The chisels are Rocklers 5 piece bench set. My first two sets were bargain ones and I could get them to neither take an edge or keep it so I spent a little more.

And I don't have a concrete set on how my hands go but it's all pretty close. Right hand holding it with thumb over the back and I pinch the blade with my index finger and thumb on left hand and rest my hand on the board to steady it. Sometimes I only use my index finger to hold it.

I was about to make the video and couldn't get it to give me trouble. It doesn't always give me trouble but it's a constant thing and I can't rely on getting an accurate cut with it yet.

I'm about to have to go to work though.

 

With the grain, standing over it so I can better judge the angle and sight down the back of the chisel and my line.

I actually use both. Pencil is easier to see when I'm sawing, but to get it precise I use a marking knife and marking wheel.

The chisels are Rocklers 5 piece bench set. My first two sets were bargain ones and I could get them to neither take an edge or keep it so I spent a little more.

And I don't have a concrete set on how my hands go but it's all pretty close. Right hand holding it with thumb over the back and I pinch the blade with my index finger and thumb on left hand and rest my hand on the board to steady it. Sometimes I only use my index finger to hold it.

I was about to make the video and couldn't get it to give me trouble. It doesn't always give me trouble but it's a constant thing and I can't rely on getting an accurate cut with it yet.

I'm about to have to go to work though.

Try going against the grain. 😉

 

Sometimes a different presenter helps. Try out the Matt Eslea video:

A lot of what he presents I've already heard from Paul Sellers, James Wright, or Rex Kreuger, but the way he does it seems to resonate with me better. Or at least gave me some a-ha moments of "Oh! That's what Paul/James/Rex had been saying as well, but I just didn't really understand the how or the why."

 

I'll definitely watch it later when I get a chance. I was already gonna go back and watch them all doing some chisel work to see if I can see what I'm missing.

I only just discovered him the other day, I haven't looked at any of his other stuff yet. But I was looking up different ways to fix dovetail gaps and came across his video. I intended to watch more of him cuz I like his way of presenting.

Rex is my current favorite.. I just feel like he's really relatable to me. And I usually understand what he's trying to get across pretty easily.

 

Rex is my current favorite.. I just feel like he's really relatable to me. And I usually understand what he's trying to get across pretty easily.

Rex's videos are what saved me from giving up woodworking.

 

Sometimes a different presenter helps. Try out the Matt Eslea video:

A lot of what he presents I've already heard from Paul Sellers, James Wright, or Rex Kreuger, but the way he does it seems to resonate with me better. Or at least gave me some a-ha moments of "Oh! That's what Paul/James/Rex had been saying as well, but I just didn't really understand the how or the why."

Okay so 3 take aways. First I have no idea whether I'm chopping or paring lol. I thought chopping was perpendicular to the grain and paring was parallel. Second, he gave me a new way to hold the chisel (like a pencil) that I think will give me more control. Third, even though I thought I was taking off small enough amounts, I'm not.

Tomorrow if I get to work, I'll be starting on the drawers and I can try again and see how it goes with this stuff in mind.

Try going against the grain. 😉

That is something I'm gonna try too.

Edit after watching it and being able to think about it for a minute. I think one of the biggest problems is I'm asking too much of the chisel. I'm trying to take too much and that's requiring extra force, which is actually moving it off the angle I had it at and instead of a nice flat shaving, I'm actually cutting a very narrow triangle. Or it goes the other way and it's a fat triangle.. It's not that is slipping off, it's that I don't have as much control as I think I do.

I THINK. My memory is terrible so I can't say for sure until I catch myself doing it.

Hopefully we'll see tomorrow.

 

IAmSupernova, it sounds like you've worked diligently at the bench and watched a lot of videos. The one piece you are missing is someone to work with in person. Look around your area and find a woodworking group (form one?). Go to some hours or weekend long demo/class at a woodworking store and ask the demo/class leader. The in-person bit is the important part.

 

Sounds like the same advice usually given on the archery forums: videos, blogs, and forum posts are trumped by getting a coach to meet in person. In this case it's a matter of finding someone to teach in person.

 

Just finding a mentor or whatever poses a bit of a problem. I have really bad social anxiety. Like I'm prone to full on panic attacks. Something I've struggled with my whole life. I'd really need to know the person before hand. Or at least talked to them.

A class is more likely. The more people the less stress I feel.

I'm in Houston, I have 2 Woodcrafts and a Rockler, so there's classes available to me if I choose to do it, but it's not something I can think about for awhile for financial reasons.

Edit: looks like most of my problem just is I'm trying to remove to much at once. When I'm actually paying attention and looking for it, it seems so obvious. I played around with it and when I'm actually taking a small enough amount, the chisel goes through with almost no effort and I'm able to maintain the angle and take a clean shaving.

The difference between small enough and too much is pretty small, at least for me.

 

Just finding a mentor or whatever poses a bit of a problem. I have really bad social anxiety. Like I'm prone to full on panic attacks. Something I've struggled with my whole life. I'd really need to know the person before hand. Or at least talked to them.

A class is more likely. The more people the less stress I feel.

I'm in Houston, I have 2 Woodcrafts and a Rockler, so there's classes available to me if I choose to do it, but it's not something I can think about for awhile for financial reasons.

Edit: looks like most of my problem just is I'm trying to remove to much at once. When I'm actually paying attention and looking for it, it seems so obvious. I played around with it and when I'm actually taking a small enough amount, the chisel goes through with almost no effort and I'm able to maintain the angle and take a clean shaving.

The difference between small enough and too much is pretty small, at least for me.

There have to be multiple ww clubs in Houston. They might be called guilds. You don't necessarily need a mentor, just having someone else watch (or you watch them) can be some serious eye opening.

 

I didn't actually get to any pins yesterday but I intend to do the next ones cross grain.

Anything I can do to get better results I'm willing to do. I have a basic understanding of most tools but I'm not one of those people that just thinks my way is the right way and unwilling to try or learn new stuff.

Most everything I'm doing now, I'm also trying different ways to do things so I can figure out which works best for me.

 

You've mentioned watching Paul Sellers. Find a video of him hogging away a tenon with a chisel across the grain. Not splitting down, not sawing, but cross grain chisel. You will hear him say something like "aim for the sky" while he is working from the edge of the tenon towards the middle and then you'll see him take progressive steps lowering the tip of the blade down while registering the back of the blade out at the edge of the tenon. Sometimes, he will do this to hog out a housing.

So, you have a layout line at the edge that you never change and material that you work down progressively. You can do something like this with your dovetails. With the work in the vise vertically, the first step is to establish the edge. If you have already gone past your layout line, I have nothing to suggest. Otherwise, you are going to do the equivalent of "aim for the ceiling" by knocking off the corner of the pin or tail in a manner that exactly hits the layout line (but you ignore the rest of the socket / pin / tail). Most likely, this will mean placing your chisel into your knife line, aiming for the air (socket) between the pins or tails, and taking off a sliver of wood a bit like a toothpick.

You have now defined an arris that is exactly on your layout line.

Rest the back of the chisel on this arris and "pare the air." Your first stab may not cut anything, but you will start progressively lowering the tip as you ride that arris until you start to catch some wood and then will walk it down. Your chisel should be wide enough to be cutting the full height of the pin or tail that you are adjusting. This way, you can see that you are not encroaching on the other layout line that is running across the end grain. Continue to walk down the edge until you see you have reached your top line.

This is easy to say, but it takes some practice. Someone mentioned the importance of a thumb on the top of the chisel to help keep it registered. I agree. Watch your fingers! It is easy to get fingers ahead of the blade when doing this. Stay behind the edge.

If your dovetails do not assemble when you have pared to your layout lines, then you have a layout issue or an issue with squaring up your original material. If you encounter that problem (it happens), ideally you get your marking knife out and mark new lines and work to them. Working without a line is going to leave you unhappy. Move the line. The only exception is that sometimes a pass with a file or rasp can be all you need and I'll try that, but you don't want significant changes without a line and I always find that a file will very quickly produce a surface that is not flat....probably my lack of skill.

This works for me most of the time, especially for half lap. There are probably other and better ways.

 

"I'm not one of those people that just thinks my way is the right way and unwilling to try or learn new stuff."

I smiled at this sentence knowing you are at the beginning of your journey. IAS, you will eventually get there because you will find a way that works best for you and is "good enough".
The perpetual improvement notion is a myth because, while you can change things and pretend it's improvement, there will come a point where cost effectiveness acts like a brake. I've witnessed companies whose brakes did not work well enough and they crashed.
Keep up the good work, learn, have fun, and experience rewards.
DanK

 

I definitely do better cross grain. I was able to shave off exactly what I needed to in one pass and the joint fit perfectly.

Im just gonna convert to doing it that way.

 

There ya go! Good enough!
DanK