Go for the rockwell

Its a superior saw to the craftsman…..in every way

Especially with the splayed foot base

I don't know where you read about the rockwell motor struggling with 3/4 ply…..I have heard some corny stuff….but that one is up there with the best of them

Quit reading stuff and get the delta. I know of what i speak here. I have many, many hours on em

 

The Rockwell will likely have a slightly beefier motor, and may be a tad heavier. I'm not a fan of the fence on either, but the stock Emerson steel fence is pretty bad, so the Rockwell is the lesser of two evils if the Cman fence has not been upgraded already.

With that said, the 113.298761 was their top model with the extra capacitor on the motor, and the grated cast wings…..at a $100, it's a more economical candidate to add a fence upgrade to, like the Delta T3 for $200. If the 113 has the metal handwheels, you could likely double your money by selling the parts….motor, hand wheels, blade guard, switch, miter gauge, motor mount, stand, fence, wings, etc.

Both seem like pretty fair deals at their asking prices. I'd probably offer a bit less for the Rockwell, but would pay the full $200 if it looks and runs really good. Check both out and see how you feel about them.

I've also never heard of that Rockwell motor struggling. How well a saw cuts is a function of several factors that the motor is only one aspect of….alignment, blade, belt tension, pulleys, bearings, etc., are all contributing factors. Unless that Rockwell has a direct drive universal type motor (like on a model 34-670), I'd expect it to be fairly stout. Both motors should actually do well if set up for success.

 

Hi guys,

Thank you both for your input. The guy selling the Rockwell disappeared after I first contacted him. He either changed his mind, or sold it and never took the time to let me know..
I guess upgrading the fence is out of question if I want to do any precise cutting with the saw, is this 100% accurate or is there a way to make the stock fence work?
I'm asking this because if I need to spend $200 on a decent fence, and any other $ in any type of adjustments or parts (it is missing a handwheel, I'm assuming I need to upgrade the pulleys, belt and possibly ball bearings to fine tune it) I will be getting closer to $400-$500 by the time this saw becomes a fine tool.

Would you consider buying the Delta 35-725 from lowes? It is $599 but I think I can bring it down to around $500 plus taxes with some coupons. What do you think?

This is how the Cman looks like.

 

The Cman fence will work…you just need to check and measure both ends regularly for your more critical cuts. Not a pleasure to use, but will do the job if you fiddle with it. There are tens of thousands of these things in service, and many of us have made acceptable things with them.

The belt and pulleys, and the bearings might be just fine. I wouldn't try to fix something that's not broke. You'll have to run it and see. A new belt can be pretty inexpensive….$5-$25 if needed. Replace the pulleys and bearings only if damaged, and both can be reasonable. You can find used handwheels on Ebay cheap….someone here might even have one to sell for the cost of shipping. The saw is a bit rough, but should clean up ok. I wouldn't hesitate to offer less than $100….ask what they'll take.

The 36-725 should be much nicer to use, but is also 6x the cost. Could be a fine saw, but it's track record isn't stellar.

What larger towns/cities are you near?

 

Ok, I have an update.
I heard from the owner of the Rockwell so I went and checked it out.

The good:
- Table saw is in good condition. Very good actually. Original paint, some rust but nothing major.
- It has the splitter, blade guard, etc..
- There is no changes in the alignment when the blade goes up and down - I'm checking for this because I know RIDGID 4512 has this problem, so I wanted to make sure this saw didn't have this.
- The fence locks nicely, I think it would be ok for the type of work I'm planning to do.

The bad:
- The TS is bigger than I expected. With the motor sticking out it is about 38 inches deep, it requires more real estate than I anticipated on my garage. I can work around this… not a big deal.
- The blade is not aligned to the miter slot. There is a 1/16 difference. Not sure if this is a big deal, I think one can adjust this in most of the saws.
- I had to wire the motor, swtich, etc.. After I made it run I cut a 1 1/4 maple board I brought with me. I could cut ok if I took it easy, but the motor bogs down as soon I as put pressure while cutting the board. It first tripped the breaker twice as soon as I put some pressure/load on the cut; but the owner had several things plugged-in on the same circuit, it didn't tripped after he disconnected all of them.
- The insert is not the original, I can create/buy my own, not a big deal here.
- It wouldn't pass the nickel test. There is some vibrations when the saw starts. I'm not sure if this is the motor pulley not in alignment with the other one, or lack of tension on the belt - I failed to inspect this properly now that I think about it.
- While the cut was nice and straight there were a lot of burn marks on it. I'm not sure if this is due to the blade -old Irwin in ok condition- or the fact that is not aligned to the miter slot.

I told the owner I was going to research more, I wasn't confident enough to make an offer. It is a heavy saw, I'm not taking this home unless I'm positive it is ok.
The bigger issue I see is the motor bogging down, is this expected cutting maple 1 1/4? Again, after it first bogged down I could manage the pressure I was putting to avoid this, and I could finish the cut, but I'm not sure this should be expected or not.
Last time I cut this boards it was with a Makita saw I rented in HD and it didn't bog down at all… there were burn marks though.

What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance!

 

The floorspace taken up by contractor saws is basically the same for all of them, so the C-man saw would not get you anything in that regard.

As for your 'test'... completely useless IMO. You are running a machine that most likely has been sitting for some time, is not in alignment, has a hardened belt and crappy/dull used blade. I would expect exactly what you experienced. To me, if it runs and doesn't have any broken bits, everything else is easily addressed and it can be brought back into like new condition with little effort.

Cheers,
Brad

 

For what it's worth, I'd listen to brad on this one - I suspect he's one of the most seasoned guys here in rehabilitating used saws

 

I bought my Rockwell 34-410 new in the late 1970s. It's been a real workhorse. No problems. I've upgraded the fence (Delta T2) and the blade guard (Shark Guard), built a router table extension wing and replaced the belt with a link belt.

 

Ditto what Brad said. There are many variables in play that lead to the end result you got….all pretty easily correctable. A fresh belt, a clean good quality sharp blade that's appropriate for the task, sufficient electric supply, and alignment should all add up to major performance improvements. Ask what he'd take and see if its a number you're comfortable with.

 

Guys,

Thanks for you input. I was laughing at my rookie self after reading this from Brad "As for your 'test'… completely useless IMO". But I didn't know better..
I picked the saw today and paid $150. I think the price is fair and I'm really happy with the purchase. I removed the base from the table and I'm getting ready to start the cleaning process. I have a few hours of fun ahead.
I'm planning to buy a new belt -just confirmed it is hard and old- and a new blade.
After everything is rust-free and lubed I'm planning to put everything together and align the blade to the miter fence and the fence.

Questions
- The CI table has a little -not excessive- amount of rust. I bought CRL at Lowes but I also have WD-40 and fine grain sandpaper. I was wondering what has worked better in the past for you guys. I think I'm going to start with wd-40 and progressive sand paper.
- What can I use to lube the trunnion and worm gear? I guess any dry lubricant would work fine, but I was wondering what is recommended.
- I have heard adding PALS help a lot with the alignment process, but I need to research more and check those out. Are they worth buying/using?

Thanks!!!
R. Rod.

 

Yep, your problems cutting that piece of maple could have easily been the fault of the blade (or a dozen other things).

 

No worries… at least you verified it ran. On old machines like that, if I do test to see if it runs, I generally will just turn it on for a few seconds to see it work, then right back off. There is no telling what kind of condition the bearings are in and anything more could cause damage. And in most cases, I'm hoping it doesn't run. 99.9% of the time, the reason for not running is something stupid simple to fix, but you can really lower the price because of it.

As for the table top, start with a straight edge razor blade and get most of the accumulated gunk and loose rust off. Then I'd hit it with a scotch brite pad and some solvent. To speed things up, you can put it under a vibrating sander. Once you get it cleaned up with the scotch brite pad, if there is any residual staining, you can either leave it (won't hurt anything), or hit it with some oxalic acid (ie: Barkeepers friend). Then give it a few coats of paste wax.

To lube things up, a good dry lube or paraffin wax works well.

Cheers,
Brad

 

...I m planning to buy a new belt -just confirmed it is hard and old- and a new blade.
...- racielrod

Congrats on your new saw. Sounds like you got a good deal on a very solid serviceable saw.

Tips for Picking Saw Blades

 

Thanks you all! And thanks for sharing the link to help me with the blade selection.

I spent several hours yesterday cleaning up the saw. The CI is looking great but there are still some stains I want to remove, I'm going to try the Barkeepers Friend later.
The gears were a little bit stiff but after cleaning everything with a wire brush and adding a good amount of WD-40 everything is moving like a charm now.

I put it aside and I will continue working with it during the nights or weekends until it is back to good(hopefully optimal) condition.

The part that scares me the most now is the alignment process, which after seeing a few YouTube videos looks time consuming. I was thinking on buying the PALS system but I also watched a video where they used a T made of wood running on the miter slot with a screw and a feeler gauge. I might try this last route first.

Again, thank your all for your time and input!

 

I had a 34-444 (slightly newer model but basically the same saw) and i knocked it out of alignment so bad (long story) I couldn't get it aligned after hours and hours of trying. I wound up buying the PALS for $20 or so (someone called this $1 for the hardware, and $19 for the idea) and had it aligned in about 30 minutes after installation. Try the miter slot/dial indicator method first, but the pals make a very good addition (as does a link belt).

 

Hi Fred,

Thanks for the PALS recommendation, I'm thinking on getting it.
I'm having a hard time finding the 34-410 Owner's Manual, I found the 34-444 on http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=5392 and I'm using it as a reference. As you mentioned, the saws are very similar.

Thanks again!
R. Rod.

 

I m having a hard time finding the 34-410 Owner s Manual….

Here's the manual for the Rockwell 34-410.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/698/5980.pdf

 

Thanks Lynden! You made my day!

 

Hi guys,

I have spent some time giving this saw some TLC and I'm really excited with the results. I have mainly concentrated on cleaning and lubing the gears and removing the rust and polishing the table. (Including some before/after pictures at the end).

The table is not a mirror and still have some stains here and there, but a) I don't want to use anything really aggressive on the saw to remove this and b) this is an old saw and some marks from its many battles cannot be removed (and I don't really need to). The surface is smooth and nice.

Other things I have done:

• Aligned the blade to the miter slot: I purchased the PALS but I forgot to get some thread locking compound; so I decided to go ahead and try experiencing how hard/time consuming this might be w/o the PALS and feel better about those $20.
  I loosen the 2 bolts on the rear trunnion and to my surprise I was able to get my blade aligned with a 0.0005 difference in about 15-20mins. The PALS are on my shelve now, maybe I would need them some day. I decided to loosen those 2 bolts only, instead of 3 out of 4 as I have read in other places. Maybe that made the difference?

• Made the blade true and adjust the vertical stop: This one was tricky and I'm not 100% sure yet. It looks like my table is not perfectly flat. When I checked it I used a straight edge and placed it in the 2 diagonals and it looked good. When I looked closer yesterday it looks like the table dips a little bit near the blade insert area. I used a feeler gauge and it is 0.008, probably nothing to worry about.. but wanted to mention it.
  When I put a square against the flat part of the blade (avoiding the blade's teeth) and the table, I can see a very little light on each side of the blade (this was what made me re-check the surface again) so I just split that difference on each side and "it looks good". I guess I can correct this after my first cut. Thoughts?

Here are some pictures before and after. Thank you all!