I like dowels a lot... but I have seen the glue fail on old chairs. I have also seen it fail on tenons. Sometimes chairs use one or the other and then a pocket-screwed corner block.

 

Welcome to the forum, ShaQ. Your name is "Blogs"..... are you using this information to write your blogs with ??

 

When i created my ID that was the plan, but then, it's more than ten years now

 

I have to say, a chair is a VERY ambitious project as your 2nd woodworking project! There are lots of stress points and live loads with legs and arms acting as big levers that can tear joints apart. I like that you have the initiative to practice your joint making skills before attempting to build a chair. With a couple of chisels, a hammer, and a small hand saw you can cut some pretty nice mortise and tenon joints, just get some inexpensive wood to practice on. With mortise and tenon joints you can make through joints that can be wedged to be really strong, and also bring some added visual appeal to a project.

Good luck!

 

Thanks for the advice. I am currently planning to stick with other joints unless there is a really good reason to use only mortise and tenon. Mortise and tenon will be much later on.
These chairs I build now for my initial project, if it lasts 7 years I would be happy.
I forgot to mention, my first project will be a crosscut sled. So technically, this could be my 3rd one not that it makes a big difference.

 

Pocket joints for chairs?! Umm

Right angle back chair? Ouch

Using "furring strips" for furniture?! 🤯 + 😆

 

Pocket joints for chairs?! Umm

Right angle back chair? Ouch

Using "furring strips" for furniture?! 🤯 + 😆

Why the alarm?

And for the OP, it seems like you believe "real" woodworking doesn't involve screws or nails. Not sure where the perception comes from, but I think you'll find it's not even remotely close to a universal truth. Sure, traditional nails (that you hammer in) aren't common. But brads and pin nails are often used. Screws? They're used all the time.

If it makes one happy to not use screws, nails, etc. That's fine. But using or not using those things doesn't make one more or less "legit" as a woodworker. So do what you're comfortable with, what'll work for the given project, and what you enjoy.

And be careful with buying into too much woodworking lore. Because many of the same sources you might be getting the aversion to nails/screws from very likely would tell you that dowels aren't for real woodworkers either. But that you instead should be using dominos for the ultimate WW street cred.

 

If you’re talking about using low grade or construction type lumber I’d probably just go with countersinking the screws with plugs through the faces. Carefully off-set so they don’t hit inside the legs.
If you are stepping up to hard wood some kind of mortise and tenon joint.
Is this for indoor or outdoor use?

 

Planning to use Southern yellow pine.

I have 4 50 year old broken chairs out of teak wood, broken at the leg. Planning to redo or maybe rip/cut it apart and build something new from it.
Maybe before I get to it i will try my hands on mortise and tenon joints. However, this will be much later.

 

Based what I could find, all that weight testing on the Kreg Pocket Holes for rails had the force applied on 2 inches away from where the joint was made. The more interesting numbers would have been if the forces applied were about 12 inches away from the joint. Granted what was being tested was for deck railing rather than for building chairs or benches.

https://assets.unilogcorp.com/187/ITEM/DOC/Kreg_100033188_Specification_Sheet.pdf

It was also odd to not be able to find that same testing document on Kreg's site.

 

Chairs take a lot of stress, so the primary joints need to be strong. I doubt that pocket hole joinery will hold up for very long, Same with tongue and groove. Probably the strongest joinery is mortise and tenon. Not simple for a beginner, but certainly not impossible. Here is a three-way mortise and tenon joint that will accomplish what you want:

 

How about half laps for beginners?

 

Mortise and tenon is your friend, don't be afraid. Make a few, they are not that hard.

 

So far, what I've learned is that it's harder to do mortises in pine, than it is to do in oak or cherry. I keep thinking that my chisels are sharp enough, a they seem to do well with oak or cherry, but when I work on pine, I end up with the end grain in the mortises shearing and making hollow spots. Same for the tenon shoulders when I choose to chisel to the line instead of cutting right at the line with a saw. Fortunately, it's all hidden away, but just annoying that I know that I can get better results.

 

From the picture I think you are looking at joint failure in a short order.
Can you alter the design so the two pieces do not intersect? On a chair the screwed joints like that will not last long in what appears to be soft "pine". On hard wood like oak, ash, hickory, cherry, and walnut the screws would hold much better.
Someone mention a straight back. Generally chairs have a 10 to 12 degree slant to the backs.

 

My wife's favorite reading chair has the back and seat 90 degrees to each other, but the entire thing is tilted back about 15 degrees, and it comes with an ottoman. Since the chair is in the room I use an office (and doubles as a game room, hobby room, and library), I like sitting in it too when I'm stuck in a long online meeting that doesn't need me to be right in front of the monitor. Super comfortable even when the padding is not that thick.

 

Honestly, I think you'll be fine with pocket holes, depending on where the chairs will be. But you say you want to use dowels or something else, which would be an upgrade. This is your second woodworking project, no need to get all fancy with the joinery. Besides, it doesn't look like anyone will be rocking back on those chairs.

If the chairs are out of the rain (they look like deck/patio chairs), even pocket screws will probably hold for years. By then, you should have enough woodworking experience to build some new chairs out of better wood and more robust joinery.

For deck or patio chairs, a 90 degree back is fine. Lots of commercial outdoor furniture is built that way. Just use large, puffy cushions. It's not like you're going to settle in and watch all three Lord of the Rings movies while sitting in that chair.

However, if you want to experiment with joinery, this is a perfect piece to experiment on with all of the joints. There are so many options given here. Just pick the one that sounds like the most interesting to you.

Personally, if I were to build that chair, I would use pinned mortice and tenons. Or I might get real brave and try wedged tenons. I live near Chicago and we get a lot of wind and rain as well as temperature extremes. I wouldn't expect the pocket holes to hold my 250lbs (it's all muscle) for more than a few years. I don't like relying on screws or glue around here. Either the screws will rust or the wood will rot around the screws. And even Titebond 3 will fail quickly in that environment. So having joints that lock together without the need of glue or screws would last the longest.

 

Doesn't dowels count as loose tenon joinery? Or is there something more specific that differentiates the use of dowels vs. loose tenons joints?

 

Tenons are flat and resist rotation. Dowels are round and don't resist rotation well, unless you use multiple dowels.