I waffle on this as well cutworm. I have an old Sears & Roebuck table saw model #101-02162, circa early 50's/60's? There is absolutely nothing plastic on this. Solid as a rock and very heavy. The fence alone weighs about 20lbs. This was built to last. With that said, the fence is not very accurate, does not lock down well, and there is no splitter. But that is part of the fun, as I have to be creative. I feel the tools now, power tools anyway, are much safer to use and lighter. May not last as long, but I will take safety over long lasting anytime. Of course the tool is only as safe as the operator. As far as hand tools, I think older is better.

Peace to all

 

In a lot of cases things are made better nowadays. Sawstop (the blade sensing technology), veritas planes etc.
I disagree about hand tools. Older ones are great, just not better than some modern tools (veritas, lie-nielson).

Where things really went downhill though, is that nearly nothing is made in the USA anymore.

 

I think a lot of older tools were built to last indefinitely. And from what I understand, tools in the 40s/50s/60s were comparably A LOT more expensive than they are now. Now I'm sure there were plenty of sub-par tools made in the past, but few of those still survive today. Most were scraped or trashed long ago, leaving only the quality gems for us to marvel over today.
However, the vast majority of modern tool buyers don't need an incredible level of quality and durability. It would be a waste of money for most of us to spend a week's pay on a state-of-the-art, $1000 drill press when the $199 Craftsman will get the job done and will likely last a very long time. And people often call modern tools "plastic junk". Of course, on many levels, it makes sense to use plastic. Its lighter, less expensive, and in many cases offers few disadvantages over metal. I mean, could you imagine using an all metal power drill for several hours at a time?
IMO, there are plenty of great tools still available to thosoe who want the best money can buy. But I think the tool market has learned that most people are looking for value, so they flood the market with mediocre-pretty decent tools with attractive price points.

 

No, If it was a all electric drill, you'll be dead already…. There would be no insulation on the wires… and the tool would become like some tazer or something..

 

I thought there would be more nostalgia…. Battery drills, air nailers. Sure beats swinging a hammer. I still like those Yankee Drills but it's hard to beat a battery drill. Tools have came a long way when you stop and reflect. I guess not all change is bad.

 

Well I thought most would take for granted that the wiring would be insulated, but since X is in a literal kind of mood, I'll clarify. "an all metal power drill with insulated wiring". LOL.

 

I think that the tools today are in a class above those back in 50's or 60's not in the fact that they are better in functionality and or life span but in design quality.

The tools of the bygone era we're designed with pencils/paper/drafting boards and the testing involved stressing a part till it broke, and if it did, back to the drawing board. Don't get me wrong, they used what they had to the best of their ability. Additionally the choice of materials in those days was not what it is today.

The tool today are most likely designed on a CAD system and tested on the CAD station before a part is even manufactured. Changes can be made on the fly.

The is TV show that was called Mega Factories which showed VW, Philips, and John Deere, and how manufacturing technology has changed the products.

At John Deere, instead of punch presses which required too and die makers, they now use laser and plasma cutters and turn around a new design in less than 24 hours.

At the Philips Norelco razor factory the only people there are the machine technicians and the QC people and they turn out more razors than ever before …. and higher quality.

The VW factory in integrated into the city to such an extent it has to be pointed out to visitors. It get it parts on the same rail line that commuter user, new car storage looks like a high rise apartment.

I have a Craftsman TS that is from the 70s' and I have really no reason to upgrade to a 2010 or better.

So what I am trying to say is that the tools we used before are in fact the tools that make it possible to make the tools we use today!

Does that make sense?

 

The reality is high end tools and machines today are better than the old tools and machines they are just expensive and rarely seen in hobby shops, however the same was true of high end machines back when the "old iron" was being built. Except for a very few machines that are destined to go the way of the dinosaur (NA cabinet saws for one) it is easy to find a new machine that is the equal or better of anything built 50 years ago. The difference is some hobbists can afford a Oliver jointer or a Buss planer but you rarely see them buying new top end stuff from Martin and Altendorf. A high end Martin shaper and a high end Altendorf slider will run you into 6 digits for the pair and they are FAR better in most every respect than anything made "in the old days" but if you bring the old iron prices to todays dollars (or Euros) you will see they are priced in the same ballpark.

The difference is we have a ton of inexpensive tools that lets hobbists equip shops in a way almost no hobbists could 40-50 years ago, even in their dreams so yes the inexpensive tools aren't built to the standards of the industrial machines of the past but corrected dollar for dollar you can buy better and with an unlimited budget you can buy much better. However, the industrial tools (even the stuff from light duty manufacturers like Delta, Powermatic and Walker Turner) from the past are bargains now, the bigger stuff often sells for pennies on the dollar. case in point my most recent addition to the shop is a Northfield jointer that sells for over $15,000 today and I paid less than 1K and it is pristine, compare it to a Grizzly 12" jointer and it makes the Grizzly look feeble and weak.

 

If you buy quality, they are better today. These battery drivers sure beat that Yankee screwdriver I carried 35 years ago ;-))

 

It amazes me to look at the ads in old magazines. The prices appear to be higher than the same size and brand that is available today. It seems like 8" jointers were selling for around $800 in 1980. That is right around what you can expect to pay for an 8" jointer at Grizzly today. No doubt that the $800 jointer in 1980 is a heavier duty machine than what you can buy for $800 today.

 

Im in the thought of it all depending on how you work. For me im a "close enough" kind of guy and sneak up on most of my work with hand tools to finish, old han tools that is. This makes my power tools required to be less than accurate. Im not measuring to .001" the hell with that im no machinist. This lead me to the reason that i like older iron better than most newer stuff but thats not to say the new stuff isnt good, its great, but typically its more than i need. I also really enjoy bringing old iron back to life. Ive always thought of myself as an old soul. I like to make things that will last and i buy things that will last … the disposable society aint much for me.

 

My Boice-Crane 6" jointer sold for $85 (MSRP) in 1937 and was considered 'low-cost'.. adjusted for inflation, that works out to about $1200 in todays dollars. I would rather have my BC than anything I could get for $1200 today, simply because it's over-built, over-engineered and works as well or better than anything out there currently. And coincidentally, I bought it two years ago for… $85

1937 catalog listing:

Cheers,
Brad

 

seems like all of the above is true. The old stuff has cool factor and is built like a tank while new tools bring accuracy and repeatability. @ Old Novice - the place I work has been on that show a couple of times. BMW Manufacturing. Pretty high tech place.
I see that jointer weighs 220 lbs. Belt gaurd is optional. Times have changed. That's about the same weight as the Ridgid jointer. Maybe slightly heaver. I think the Ridgid is about 200lbs. Nice looking jointer though.

 

cutworm,

DROOL, you said BMW!

I know I missed that show and just got part of the Ferrari show. These are ALL impressive factories, better products, higher quality, greater competetive advantages.

 

The fallacy in the "they don't make 'em like they used to" school of thought is that we only see the examples that have survived. The vast majority of items built 60 or 70 years ago have long ago been relegated to the junk heap.

 

Good point muleskinner

 

Present company excepted, of course.

 

No fallacy.. they don't make 'em like they used to. Back in the day these machines were over engineered and mostly hand machined. The fact that there are so many vintage machines still in use, and a lot in production environments, is testament to their build quality. Unfortunately, old machines don't demand top dollar and in most cases are worth more as scrap metal. I don't know how many shops I've seen go out of business and all the machines, fully functional and in working condition, just hauled off to the recycling plant for their scrap value. The bank don't care about the machines, they just want to try and recover as much as they can with as little hassle as possible.

Cheers,
Brad

 

I agree that they dont make them like the used to. Take my Oliver 232D. Mine is a 1952 model and still in great shape. Luckily it wasnt abused and I was able to restore it to like new condition. the 1956 Oliver price list shows the 232 at $1445 with a standard 2hp 3ph motor. If you want to "upgrade" to 3hp add $70. I paid $125 for the saw but it was missing a few key parts, namely a miter gauge and rip fence. I wound up paying $450 for the fence and $100 for the miter. All together with parts and what I paid I am into the saw for about $1000. But, it will out last me, my kids, my kids kids etc.

 

@ Mr. Unix You made a good point with the BC jointer and it would be 1,358.54 cents today. The only issue I have with that example (and sorta proves you point in one way) no manufacturer caters to that market any more. The market being an heavy duty table top sized 6" jointer. I think if SCMI made what would be a niche product today they could beat the qulity and longevity of the BC for less money, assuming there was demand for it.

I look at my jointer it is old iron but it isn't the best, it isn't a Porter 300 but it is a Northfield, you can buy a jointer as good as the Northfield today, actually you can buy the exact same jointer from Northfield, it just costs $15k. So in my case they absolutely do build one like they used to. Now, SCMI, Felder and Martin to name three build jointers BETTER than the Porter 300 or Oliver 166 but they cost a LOT of money.

In the end your point is well taken, the modern low end market has few machines built to the quality standard of the old low end market like the BC 6" jointer. The average small 6" jointer built today cost less than $20 in 1937 dollars. However, if you compare machines types that were built then and now you can indeed buy machines as good or better today if one is willing to pay for them.

 

Not a tool but look at cars. Even if you have a lemon. In the 70's, my first car hit about 100,000 miles and I knew that it had to be replaced soon. By 139,000 it was definitely at end of life. Rusted frame, leaky carb. etc.

today a vehicle at that mileage is just getting it's second wind. 200k is a given and more is easily possible if you want to do it.

As for tools. The old ones worked and often heavily built. Good quality new ones don't seem as massive, with cast iron and such but they seem to be well built just the same.

 

muleskinner,

"The vast majority of items built 60 or 70 years ago have long ago been relegated to the junk heap."

I have to agree with some exceptions of hand tools which can be much older! Almost everything from cars to machinery made that long ago is in a junk heap … but not always for the fact that it was junk.

A bottle cap manufacturer in the Midwest had a piece of very old, heavy duty, steel roll handling system. Nothing wrong with the mechanics but the electronics were relay based and was causing problems. The original equipment manufacturer did not want to update the electronics but instead sell a complete new system. Fortunately, the technicians there were well versed in PLC controls and replaced four cabinets of relays with 1/2 cabinet of PLC. So a $150K piece of OLD equipment was resurrected!

So I think everything is too strong of a word!

 

The standards sure were higher in years gone by….everything was overbuilt to last lifetimes. Build quality was simply more robust and there was less regard for cheapening things to increase profits by minuscule amounts per unit….of course the overall number of units tended to be much lower than what today's plants crank out. On the other hand, today's technology is superior in many regards if we just keep the greed mongers from cheapening things to ridiculous levels.

Overall, it's a mixed bag from my view. I've purchased several older Emerson made contractor saws that I've either refurbed or parted out. They run well and can make for a very good basic contractor saw, but from a design perspective I'd have to say that my 2005 Craftsman 22124 hybrid was a far nicer saw. I'm sure a 1940 Unisaw is built to better standards than my 2008 Shop Fox cabinet saw, but I sure like the modern fences better, and the SF is built well enough for my needs.

My older Stanley Bailey, Bedrock, Millers Falls, and Record planes are clearly built better than most new low cost planes, and not much else has changed design wise.

Modern high quality saw blades seem to be superior in every way from any older blades I've seen, but then there are some really poor examples of modern disposable saw blades that I wouldn't put on my saw if you gave them to me.

The potential is there if the execs aim for higher end markets….but all too often they aim for their pocket books.

 

I like my old tools ,,,an the new ones to…they each have found there place in my shop…especialy the big band saw….

 

All I need do to answer the question is compare my 15-20 YO PC routers with the crap B&D/PC puts out today.
But then, the new Boschs are quite nice. So is the new Shopsmith.