When, oh when will people EVER take responsibility for their own actions?! Once my editor told me that someone made a candle holder out of one of the patterns that was run in our magazine. The person started a fire and burned his house down. He then tried to sue the magazine. He didn't win but it sure made a statement. Now they are afraid to publish any projects involving candles at all.

So does that mean that if I buy a cabinet from someone and slam my finger in it and break it I can sue the cabinet manufacturer? A couple weeks ago, my partner caught his finger in the car door. Maybe we should have called a lawyer?

I was reading the other thread in the forum on accidents. I think it is time that people become accountable for themselves and stop trying to make a buck on their own stupidity.

And everyone wonders why North America is in such a mess? Hummm . . . let me think . . . ???

Just my opinion, Sheila

 

Wasn't it Shakespear who had the answer ?
Something to do with the legal proffesion ..
Just kidding
;-)

 

you can't fool a fool

they just can't handle the truth (jack nicholson)

 

Sheila, There is a good chance it was the home owner's insurance company looking to recover anything they could by casting wide net. I had a property owner's insurance company try that on me when a tenant or someone put a penny behind a fuse. Fortunately, the fire investigator found it and documented it. My insurance company told them to go fly a kite, but they still held it against me when renewal time came.

 

That's just it TS - It's the people who want a quick buck and commit fraud that ruin it for the people who have legitimate claims. All it takes is one victory and it ruins it for the rest of the honest people.

Sheila

 

It's pretty simple: lawyers mostly run the government, make the laws, and generate the bureaucratic red tape. You would think they probably want to make sure that they have plenty of income coming in. Seems like I once saw where the US has more lawyers per capita than any other country. That's a lot of hungry mouths to feed.

 

Again I say, basically, as a general rule, people suck. That being said I don't think I would ever make toys for kids.

 

I would like to find one of those guys that files frivolous malpractice. A friend of mine who is an attorney told me if anyone ever had a legitimate suit, I did for the clown that overdosed me on Topamax. I was told by malpractice attorney's that justice starts at $400k and goes up from there by the time you get the expert witnesses. In the mean time, I can only wonder how many people's lives that clown has destroyed? The web is full of horror stories about Topamax victims. Another one is Seroquel that ws found to be causing diabetes. It is used for migraine prevention too, but fortunately I got off it in time. No diabetes, just not normal any more. I probably shouldn't be telling all this, but if nobody does, there will just be more victims who learn the hard way because they trusted their drs.

That got a little off woodworking, in that article in the old Am WW, I was a bit surprised to see you can be held liable for gifts. Guess we had better be careful who we give to and make sure what we make does not have structural integrity issue; ie, don't make chairs!!

 

People suck. Now there's a pearl of wisdom I think we can all agree, if we lead our lives by (and as a general rule), will make the world a better place. Excellent point.

 

rivergirl, you are a mean woman!! No toys!!!??? ) )

 

LOL, Kelly! It IS a shame that so many people are such opportunists. I can't help but think that the lady that sued McDonald's really helped fuel this type of thinking. Then shortly after, the ones who found the finger in the Wendy's chili. Just goes to show how desperate and sick people are.

We were talking the other day about "codes" for building. Everything here in Canada is coded. EVERYTHING. It is as if you can't put up new window curtains without taking out a permit (an exaggeration - but not by much) We were saying that we wondered how the Acadians who settled this area 400 years ago survived. They built four walls and a fireplace for cooking and heat. It's no wonder they didn't all burn themselves to the ground and die off.

I am all for safety, but come on! Where the heck does 'common sense' come into play? Why should we have the burden for everyone's stupidity? (Oh - I forgot - no one needs to be responsible for their own actions!) We grew up in a world where everyone is pointing the finger at everyone else for their problems so much it has become a way of life. The real victims get lost in the shuffle.

Sorry to rant, but it really makes me sick!

(Hey, Rivergirl! - You had better put a 'disclaimer' on your rustic tool box! Someone may be carrying it full of tools and a hammer may fall out and hit them on the foot! You could be liable!!!!)

Sheila

 

A link to the real story of the MacDonalds coffee incident was posted on another thread a day or two ago. It is too bad we have to have attys take corps to court to make them behave.

Anyways, I posted this so people would be aware of the hobby risk and that there is insurance available to to cover you. I googled the phone numbers and they are no longer good. Stefang sent me to American Turners Association. While I was on their site, I noticed they have insurance for members at group rates. I haven't checked into it yet, but I probably will when I get to making a lot of small items that may get out of my immediate family.

 

this is my story of how we should take responsibility of ourselves, my Dad had diabetes, many years ago he received some bad insulin from the drug store, he spent about 2 weeks in the hospital, and lost 2 weeks wages, he did not sue the drug store or the drug co for millions, all he ask for was his medical expenses and lost wages be paid, they paid gladly, this is what I feel is the right thing to do, nothing more, nothing less.

 

"It IS a shame that so many people are such opportunists. I can't help but think that the lady that sued McDonald's really helped fuel this type of thinking."

It's never long before this case comes up.

Many people might think differently about this-and probably many other-cases, if they knew anything about them.

In this case:

Start here….

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

And then do 15 more minutes of your own research.

If you're really touting this case as evidence of something being wrong with our justice system, it's pretty likely that you really don't know anything about the case.

Maybe we should all admit to ourselves when we do and do not know enough information to hold such strong opinions about … well … everything.

Maybe.

 

Far too many people try to blame someone else for their own stupidity. Whatever happened to taking responsibility for ones own actions. These frivolous law suits have done more damage to businesses and driven up the cost to consumers and made it almost impossible to bring a product to the market unless you've got lots of cash. Personally I think if you bring a law suit against someone and you loose you should have to pay all costs to the defendant.

Good article Neil.

 

OK, NBeener. I concede. No, I didn't research the case. I formed a generalization from the headlines I read - probably out of context. I will admit when I am wrong.

But that doesn't change my opinion that people do need to accept some responsibility for their own actions. That doesn't mean that I believe that manufacturers are not responsible for any safety of their products. It just means that I don't like how people try to make a quick buck (many times dishonestly) off of their own misuse of the products.

People like TS who have been hurt by others' lack of care and concern should be compensated.

I hope that clarifies what I meant.

Sheila

 

hellavawreck et al., Germany has more lawyers per capita. We are number 2 and are trying harder. It was Dear Abby or Ann Landers a few years ago that had a letter from a lady whose brother was a professional plaintiff. He made a living off suing people and businesses. For instance, he would go into a store, slip and fall and settle out of court for a chunk of money. Then would later do the same thing somewhere else. You would think that people would catch on after a while.
Edit: I read the McD thing. It's still stupid to put a hot liquid in that position where it could spill or be spilled. Didn't the car have cup holders? Mine does and I use them for hot and cold drinks. One of the points of McD's coffee is that it is hot (I don't put it betwen my legs) and tastes good.

 

I've read and reread the article, and this thread, and I don't really follow what's being complained about.

If, for example, I buy a table (whether I pay 10 bucks or 1000 doesn't seem relevant to me) - I think I have a reasonable expectation that it will function "as a table". If I put something on it that you might reasonably expect to be on a table, I'd expect the table not to collapse. If it does collapse I think I have a right to complain about it.
Yes, people need to take responsibility, in this case, the maker of the plant stand who has sold an item that wasn't fit for purpose. I'm presuming here that the vase in question wasn't "unreasonably" large or heavy.
If I buy a bunk bed for my 12 year old, and the first night it collapses, dumping him/her on the floor, I think I have a right to complain? child = vase, bed = plant stand - where's the difference?
If I buy a new car, I think I have the right to expect that the brake pedal will stop the car?

As for slamming your finger in the door of the cabinet - it seems obvious to me that that's a different issue - the injury wasn't due to a fault in the cabinet.
A plant stand that collapses is faulty.

All that said - what a stupid thing to do with a precious vase, but that doesn't excuse a faulty product.

 

It will be a moot point for all of us when one of these days there are not enough jobs in this country because all of the manufacturers have left the country, the mines have shut down, the timber industry closed, etc. etc. ect. I have heard it said that the only way to create true wealth is to mine it, manufacture it, or grow it. We're becoming a service oriented economy. As times get harder people will do without a fast meal hamburger and cook there own, they will cut their own yards or let the grass grow (better yet plant some food where the grass once growed), they'll shop at a big box wholesale grocery instead of a quick mart, they'll exterminate the pests themselves or maybe just let 'em live in, etc. etc. etc. as the King of Siam would say. If we think we can all make a living doing each others dirty laundry or cutting each other's grass we'll find out how that works out real quick. A common sense approach would be to simply cap the amount somebody can be awarded with all of these lawsuits. It would need to be a reasonable and fair amount and at least that would eliminate the 33% lawyers fees and the cost of the other lawyer to defend it. The settlement could be determined by a board made up of local people from different walks of life who are elected for short terms but the settlements would be capped. If not in this manner then in some other manner. We have all kinds of problems in this country; this is only one of the problems. If we don't start coming up with some common sense sloutions to some of our problems we are going to be in a world of hurt.

 

To me, this sure sounds like an incognito insurance advertisement. I see this kind of crap on the local TV all the time. Fear mongers, just more fear mongers…

I've fallen and I can't get up!

 

Several years ago, I considered making arts and crafts to sell at craft fairs. I finally decided that if I began to sell my work, it might take the fun out of woodworking and did not do it. The public opinion of "sue first and let the courts figure it out" is having a devastating affect on everyone. When is it ever going to end???

I agree that putting a cap on the amount is a solution, but how can you solve that problem when the legal system is part of the problem?

 

brianinpa said:
I agree that putting a cap on the amount is a solution, but how can you solve that problem when the legal system is part of the problem?

To be fair, I would then also put a cap on just how big a company could/should be… OR set the personal lawsuit cap as a percentage of that company's resources, enough to seriously get their attention but not enough to put them out of business from ONE lawsuit. Say maybe 10% of a company's value.

Capitalism needs to work BOTH ways, not JUST for the corporations. When corporations get too big they end up "buying" the courts and ignoring the customer and employee base. Fining a billion dollar a year company a million bucks is like fining them 0.001 (one tenth of one percent) of their income. What is wrong with that?

That would be like any of you who makes, say $50,000, being fined $50 for a speeding ticket (same percentage). As you ALL know civil infraction tickets cost you MUCH MORE than that, as a percentage of your income.
Just my 2 cents…

 

Mike I agree with much of what you just said. However, I would say that the large corporations are much more like monopolies rather than capitalists - even if it's a small group of corporations making the same thing. That's just my humble opinion.

 

woodsmithshop, Your dad got lucky. Took me 3 years before I could type after the Topamax OD, 4 before I could write coherently. It has been 6 and I still have cognative issues. It is beyond my comphrension that these idiots can get away with this, but they did. One of them claimed to be an expert witness and to have tgestifed in may cases. I can only wonder how many people's lives that clown has destroyed.

When Elliot Spitzer exposed Wall Street's criminal activities in managing retial brokerae accounts, tey paid what amounted to a day's profit in fines for the destruction of millions of people retirement accounts and making billons in bonuses. White collar crime does pay and it pays very well.

Anyway, I am beginning to wonder why I posted this to start with? The intent was to alert about potential problems with hobby woodworking and that insurance is available.

 

TopamaxSurvivor, Thanks for the post, I'll try to get things back on track here. My thoughts were about getting sued for woodworking. I have some woodworking jigs that I'm reluctant to post because I worry about someone copying one of them, using it improperly and then I'm ending up in a lawsuit. Knowing how lawyers work probably LJ too. Has such a thing ever happened? In this sue happy world it's just something I consider from time to time.
And a slightly different twist,I have also been foolish enough to build a copy of my homemade tablesaw for a client. He's a great client so a few years back when he moved to Hawaii and offered me the chance to get the table back I jumped at the offer.
TS, I never noticed the A after the P in your screen name. Thought it was TopmaxSurvivor and that you were probably a retired First Sargent before your "Sparky" jobs. I never heard of topamax but I'm glad you're a survivor and for what you bring to LJ.