I buy fresh flakes and buttons from https://www.shellacshack.com/
I haven’t bought from them for at least 5 years. Hopefully they still offer a good product. The super blonde are nice and loose they dissolve quickly.

 

Prices aren't too bad on that site. I am just getting into using shellac flakes and bought, what I could find was the cheapest, dewaxed shellac flakes on amazon and they were slightly more than what the Shellac Shack has them for. Good deal.

 

If you are in California, DNA has been outlawed. Excuse I heard is that too many kids were drinking it. Not that they need an excuse in California. We can always just say it’s an air quality issue.

 

IME - Not much difference between brands. The key is buying from someone that sells shellac often enough that the flakes are fresh. If flakes are not stored properly, and get old: can pick up moisture and become gummy and hard to sand. I only use dewaxed flakes; mostly as sealer, or color enhancer.

+1 Shellac Shack is reliable supplier.

Shellac.net is a good source for CA residents, as they are also a Mohawk distributor in Napa, CA; and can ship Mohawk Shellac Reducer (DNA) with your order.
Mohawk Shellac Reducer is a blend of: ethanol (~95%), isopropanol (~3.2%), and methyl isobutyl ketone (~1.2%).

Lee Valley sells private label, as well as more expensive BT&C brand of flakes. Now that Lee Valley has distribution warehouse in Nevada, they can ship quickly to western USA. The LV private label flakes work fine. Used them when others were out of stock on Garnet flakes I needed.

If you are in California, DNA has been outlawed.

Getting tired of forum users falsely claiming DNA is outlawed in CA.
This is false.
It is not outlawed, DNA solvent sale is regulated and controlled.
There are several existing threads that discuss DNA; sourcing challenges, regulations, and shellac solvent alternatives; you can look them up to learn more.
Plus: While I dislike buying stuff from Amazon, they do have sellers offering DNA, as well as quarts of n-Butanol alcohol and Methyl n-Amyl Ketone (shellac retarders for warm/dry weather); for those challenged at finding shellac solvents.

 

I always use dewaxed shellac, mostly because it is what I always have on hand. If you can't find DNA, look for stove fuel at the big box stores. To get the best DNA go to the liquor store and buy everclear.

 

The best part about Everclear is that if you only use a little bit of it you don't have to worry about the leftovers going to waste. Just mix it with a can of concentrated frozen lemon aide and a can of water and drink it. But be careful, it's 200 proof.

 

Found the DNA on Amazon 24 for a gallon... that seems like a good price.

 

To get back to you questions. It is correct to think that wax free shellac is used as a sealer or primer for other top coats and it can obviously work as a top coat too. Prepared in the can shellac usually has ingredients that extend it's self life but it is best to use fresh. Old shellac might be used as a sealer on say a MDF work top in the shop.

I see using shellac on kitchen cabinets as a possible problem. It is not very durable and subject to damage from moisture and kitchen cabinet doors get a lot of ab--use from the cooks messy hands; especially aroung the handles. Not to mention the cooking steam and other sources of moisture in the room. I think a lacquer or poly would be a better top coat.

 

Your probably right about durability ... I've got some water-based poly I could use. Just trying to do this in place and keeping the smell down.
Plus.. 10 bucks to ship a pound from the shack.
I dont know if I trust the Amazon shellac flakes though.

 

I agree with Les on the use of shellac on those cabinets. In addition to what he mentioned most cleaners, especially those with ammonia in them, will seriously damage it. But, kitchen cabinets can be contaminated with a lot of grease and other stuff that's very hard to clean off...that might make adhesion a problem for other finishes. So a coat of dewaxed shellac underneath whatever you wind up using for the top coat would be a very good idea. Shellac will seal those contaminants.

 

I use Sealcoat 90% of the time now. Yeah, it's $20 a quart and only my local Ace has it, but for me, it's not worth mixing when I usually only need a small amount. I used to use a lot of flakes, and still do, but only for a color tone. I can't see the savings advantage unless you're using a lot of it.

Virtually every project I build gets a seal coat of shellac. Don't ask me why, I just think I should do it. I'm not a shellac guru, but I'll tell you, I started using Mohawk Shellac Reducer a few years ago and I really think there is a difference between it and standard DNA or pure alcohol.

I've bought flakes from Amazon, OK, but I mostly go with shellac.net. I believe they carry the Mohawk reducer. It's about the same as DNA (FUEL) but they nail you pretty good on the UPS shipping. So I buy it direct from a Mohawk distributor in the next state.

 

I used dewaxed shellac exclusively--I've never seen a compelling case to using the waxed version. I usually use it as a sealer coat or intermediate coat between an unknown finish and the one I'm putting on (for refinishing. I get my flakes at Amazon (Amazon doesn't make them, of course, but they sure deliver quickly)--Old World brand flakes.

I never use it as a top coat anymore--too many issues with spilled wine/alcohol or whatever. Just not worth not adding a final coat or two of poly on top.

Denatured alcohol from the big box store does the job (in Illinois).

 

For those that aren’t in the know.
Shellac with wax in it will be harder when it dry compared to unwaxed. If your polishing the hardness helps.
Here’s a pic of buttons with wax it’s very hard like glass. I once spilled some waxed shellac outside of my shop on the concrete. It was was there for years. It looked like crap but surprisingly tough.

 

I'm new to shellac but bought flakes last year from the shack. Amazon would not ship DNA to California. I bought Isopropanol 99% from them, they shipped it. Crazy stupid rules. Iso is the same chemical but with an opposite twist (chirial). So DNA banned from retail because it's a VOC. But the same stuff Iso is not. It's used in hand sanitizers and doctors offices.
The advantage of flakes is more color choices and variable mix ratio. I'd agree with others though that it's probably not the best choice for kitchen cabinets.

 

I'm new to shellac but bought flakes last year from the shack. Amazon would not ship DNA to California. I bought Isopropanol 99% from them, they shipped it. Crazy stupid rules. Iso is the same chemical but with an opposite twist (chirial). So DNA banned from retail because it's a VOC. But the same stuff Iso is not. It's used in hand sanitizers and doctors offices.
The advantage of flakes is more color choices and variable mix ratio. I'd agree with others though that it's probably not the best choice for kitchen cabinets.

It is not the same. Denatured alcohol is ethanol -2 carbons in the molecule isopropanol is -3 carbons in the chain. Ethanol is the liquor and in its pure form can be consumed. To denature it originally, methanol was used. This makes the mixture poisonous. Now that methanol is at the top of the alcohol list for VOC’s and contributing to smog different solvents are added to “denature” (make poisonous) the ethanol. If interested you need to request the SDS (formerly called MSDS) this may not list the denaturant as it is less than the required reporting level, but it still makes the mixture toxic.

This all to make sure that various governments get their taxes on beverage alcohol and goes back before any concern for the environment. In beverage terms Everclear is 200 proof and is of some value to test as to why your dissolved flakes are cloudy.

I believe that with the changes in denaturants is why some of the folks on this forum have had unsatisfactory results with flakes. This has become more complex issue than it was a few decades ago.

 

deleted

 

I didn't think DNA was VOC, is that not true?

To maybe answer your DNA/VOC question, here's a quote from the Wikipedia reference website:

"Denatured alcohol, also known as methylated spirits, is ethanol with additives to make it poisonous, bad-tasting, foul-smelling, or nauseating to discourage recreational consumption. It can release volatile organic compounds (VOC's) when used. In California, denatured alcohol is illegal, due to strict regulations on VOC's."

 

Agree with @LesB on the durability concern, and was going to ask what OP was going to use it?

On kitchen cabinets and something where heat is a concern, I feel like shellac potentially introduces a weak point. But I'm not sure for certain.

Unless I need it for knot sealing, I haven't used shellac in years for general finish. I have a bag of flakes I can't even remember where I bought. I think there's too many drawbacks and too little benefits for use a general finish for furniture.

Cons:
Not much chemical resistance
Not much heat resistant
Not much water or moisture resistant
Not much abrasion resistance
Tends to crack if applied too thick with time
Shelf life concern unless you mix your own flaxes
Problems for some getting DNA, based on this thread
Kinda of expensive

Pros:
Great sealing properties if used as a primer such as BIN
Great adhesion properties if used as a primer such as BIN
Can be removed easily
Does make pine look really nice without blotching
Nostalgia of using an ancient finish

 

Just trying to touch up 40 year old knotty pine I'm not even positive of the finish that's on them but I believe it's dye, covered with either poly or a lacquer that's failing. Don't want to remove and resend, so I will touch up with some more dye, and then some shellac. May put wb poly over that. Trying to keep the smell down so the wife doesn't move out. (Mainly in the corner around the sink and dishwasher.)
2nd pic is how it should look.

 

2 pics, 2nd pic is magnamax lacquer that is failing, I think I used finish that was over the 90 day limit after catalyzing. The other I'm not positive of the topcoat but it looks more like ware or cleaner than a fail.
But I do believe what I'm going to try is a light hand sand (maybe 240 grit) and then dye in the light spots, then shellac, then the wb poly. Defintky needs some fixing to look like the other ones.

 

IME - Not much difference between brands. The key is buying from someone that sells shellac often enough that the flakes are fresh. If flakes are not stored properly, and get old: can pick up moisture and become gummy and hard to sand. I only use dewaxed flakes; mostly as sealer, or color enhancer.

+1 Shellac Shack is reliable supplier.

Shellac.net is a good source for CA residents, as they are also a Mohawk distributor in Napa, CA; and can ship Mohawk Shellac Reducer (DNA) with your order.
Mohawk Shellac Reducer is a blend of: ethanol (~95%), isopropanol (~3.2%), and methyl isobutyl ketone (~1.2%).

Lee Valley sells private label, as well as more expensive BT&C brand of flakes. Now that Lee Valley has distribution warehouse in Nevada, they can ship quickly to western USA. The LV private label flakes work fine. Used them when others were out of stock on Garnet flakes I needed.

Getting tired of forum users falsely claiming DNA is outlawed in CA.
This is false.
It is not outlawed, DNA solvent sale is regulated and controlled.
There are several existing threads that discuss DNA; sourcing challenges, regulations, and shellac solvent alternatives; you can look them up to learn more.
Plus: While I dislike buying stuff from Amazon, they do have sellers offering DNA, as well as quarts of n-Butanol alcohol and Methyl n-Amyl Ketone (shellac retarders for warm/dry weather); for those challenged at finding shellac solvents.

Ok, you are crre

IME - Not much difference between brands. The key is buying from someone that sells shellac often enough that the flakes are fresh. If flakes are not stored properly, and get old: can pick up moisture and become gummy and hard to sand. I only use dewaxed flakes; mostly as sealer, or color enhancer.

+1 Shellac Shack is reliable supplier.

Shellac.net is a good source for CA residents, as they are also a Mohawk distributor in Napa, CA; and can ship Mohawk Shellac Reducer (DNA) with your order.
Mohawk Shellac Reducer is a blend of: ethanol (~95%), isopropanol (~3.2%), and methyl isobutyl ketone (~1.2%).

Lee Valley sells private label, as well as more expensive BT&C brand of flakes. Now that Lee Valley has distribution warehouse in Nevada, they can ship quickly to western USA. The LV private label flakes work fine. Used them when others were out of stock on Garnet flakes I needed.

Getting tired of forum users falsely claiming DNA is outlawed in CA.
This is false.
It is not outlawed, DNA solvent sale is regulated and controlled.
There are several existing threads that discuss DNA; sourcing challenges, regulations, and shellac solvent alternatives; you can look them up to learn more.
Plus: While I dislike buying stuff from Amazon, they do have sellers offering DNA, as well as quarts of n-Butanol alcohol and Methyl n-Amyl Ketone (shellac retarders for warm/dry weather); for those challenged at finding shellac solvents.

ok, your are correct. I can buy it on Amazon. I cannot buy it in

IME - Not much difference between brands. The key is buying from someone that sells shellac often enough that the flakes are fresh. If flakes are not stored properly, and get old: can pick up moisture and become gummy and hard to sand. I only use dewaxed flakes; mostly as sealer, or color enhancer.

+1 Shellac Shack is reliable supplier.

Shellac.net is a good source for CA residents, as they are also a Mohawk distributor in Napa, CA; and can ship Mohawk Shellac Reducer (DNA) with your order.
Mohawk Shellac Reducer is a blend of: ethanol (~95%), isopropanol (~3.2%), and methyl isobutyl ketone (~1.2%).

Lee Valley sells private label, as well as more expensive BT&C brand of flakes. Now that Lee Valley has distribution warehouse in Nevada, they can ship quickly to western USA. The LV private label flakes work fine. Used them when others were out of stock on Garnet flakes I needed.

Getting tired of forum users falsely claiming DNA is outlawed in CA.
This is false.
It is not outlawed, DNA solvent sale is regulated and controlled.
There are several existing threads that discuss DNA; sourcing challenges, regulations, and shellac solvent alternatives; you can look them up to learn more.
Plus: While I dislike buying stuff from Amazon, they do have sellers offering DNA, as well as quarts of n-Butanol alcohol and Methyl n-Amyl Ketone (shellac retarders for warm/dry weather); for those challenged at finding shellac solvents.

IME - Not much difference between brands. The key is buying from someone that sells shellac often enough that the flakes are fresh. If flakes are not stored properly, and get old: can pick up moisture and become gummy and hard to sand. I only use dewaxed flakes; mostly as sealer, or color enhancer.

+1 Shellac Shack is reliable supplier.

Shellac.net is a good source for CA residents, as they are also a Mohawk distributor in Napa, CA; and can ship Mohawk Shellac Reducer (DNA) with your order.
Mohawk Shellac Reducer is a blend of: ethanol (~95%), isopropanol (~3.2%), and methyl isobutyl ketone (~1.2%).

Lee Valley sells private label, as well as more expensive BT&C brand of flakes. Now that Lee Valley has distribution warehouse in Nevada, they can ship quickly to western USA. The LV private label flakes work fine. Used them when others were out of stock on Garnet flakes I needed.

Getting tired of forum users falsely claiming DNA is outlawed in CA.
This is false.
It is not outlawed, DNA solvent sale is regulated and controlled.
There are several existing threads that discuss DNA; sourcing challenges, regulations, and shellac solvent alternatives; you can look them up to learn more.
Plus: While I dislike buying stuff from Amazon, they do have sellers offering DNA, as well as quarts of n-Butanol alcohol and Methyl n-Amyl Ketone (shellac retarders for warm/dry weather); for those challenged at finding shellac solvents.

IME - Not much difference between brands. The key is buying from someone that sells shellac often enough that the flakes are fresh. If flakes are not stored properly, and get old: can pick up moisture and become gummy and hard to sand. I only use dewaxed flakes; mostly as sealer, or color enhancer.

+1 Shellac Shack is reliable supplier.

Shellac.net is a good source for CA residents, as they are also a Mohawk distributor in Napa, CA; and can ship Mohawk Shellac Reducer (DNA) with your order.
Mohawk Shellac Reducer is a blend of: ethanol (~95%), isopropanol (~3.2%), and methyl isobutyl ketone (~1.2%).

Lee Valley sells private label, as well as more expensive BT&C brand of flakes. Now that Lee Valley has distribution warehouse in Nevada, they can ship quickly to western USA. The LV private label flakes work fine. Used them when others were out of stock on Garnet flakes I needed.

Getting tired of forum users falsely claiming DNA is outlawed in CA.
This is false.
It is not outlawed, DNA solvent sale is regulated and controlled.
There are several existing threads that discuss DNA; sourcing challenges, regulations, and shellac solvent alternatives; you can look them up to learn more.
Plus: While I dislike buying stuff from Amazon, they do have sellers offering DNA, as well as quarts of n-Butanol alcohol and Methyl n-Amyl Ketone (shellac retarders for warm/dry weather); for those challenged at finding shellac solvents.

ok, you are correct. I can buy it on Amazon. I cannot walk into my local hardware store and buy it. If I can buy it on Amazon, how is it controlled and regulated? Not looking to argue, just so education. Thanks Capt.

 

I live in California. Denatured alcohol (DNA) is difficult to buy here. DNA was removed from hardware store shelves around 2019 or so, but we could still get it as "camping stove fuel" from camping stores like REI. A year or two later and alcohol stove fuel disappeared from camping stores too.

-> You can still buy denatured alcohol at marine / boat supply stores, such as West Marine. It is sold for use as stove fuel on boats. I called our local West Marine a few months ago and confirmed that they had it available. They are in Long Beach, California.

If you live in California, I would avoid buying shellac flakes off the shelf from Rockler, Woodcraft, etc. Those bags sit for a long time, aging in place.

 

WIKI is obviously wrong on the illegality. As mentioned above, one can still buy DNA anywhere in California, but it is principally sold in quart cans as "camp stove fuel". It is a factor in photochemical smog generation.

 

For about 40 years I have made up what is typically called Shellac polish. Basically it is 2-3 tablespoons of shellac flakes per quart of alcohol. I found out that some of what is called shellac that is available in the stores in cans has something in it that is not the same as pure shellac. I call it a filler that looks like a white material. It does not appear like a talc powder. It is different.

 

I get mine from Shellac.net, also use Behlens reducer from him as well.

 

I think I'm going to order old world, through amazon... to save the shipping cost. Hopfully it hasn't set on the shelf there to long

 

Flakes have a big advantage over the pre-mixed shellac if you don't use a lot of it. The flakes last for years, but once the shellac is mixed up (like the canned stuff from the store), it has something like a 6-9 month shelf life. With flakes, I can mix whatever amount I think I'll need soon, and leave the rest of the flakes to mix up another time.

 

Flakes have a big advantage over the pre-mixed shellac if you don't use a lot of it. The flakes last for years, but once the shellac is mixed up (like the canned stuff from the store), it has something like a 6-9 month shelf life.

That seems to not be understood by many. I have flakes that are 12 years old and still just fine. They do have to be stored properly (don't stick them in the attic) and I keep mine in the shop fridge. But they will last a very, very long time as flakes.

 

I was thinking of vacuume packing what I have left over.

 

You can do that if you want, but if other conditions aren't right and you vacuum pack them, they may come out as one giant chunk. They would still be usable, but you might have to break it up to use it. They keep just fine in a loose plastic bag, some of mine are in a plastic screw top container they came in.

 

.... They keep just fine in a loose plastic bag, some of mine are in a plastic screw top container they came in.

I use an empty mayonnaise jar, first swiping the jar's thread with a paraffin block. The wax prevents the lid from possibly sticking to the jar, when the flakes aren't used for quite awhile. Just make sure to wipe off off any excess wax particles, to avoid shellac flake contamination. My waxing process is done with an empty jar.

 

Was thinking to keep the air away from them.
Like opening a can of waterlox finish, if you don't keep the air out of that can.. it just turns unusable.

 

That's not the case with flakes, they don't react the same way. As flakes they are relatively inert. Keep them cool and dry and they keep very well.

 

Amazon tries to block shipments of banned solvents to California. They are not always successful at detecting what is allowed and what is not.

Small sellers sometimes ship banned solvents to California through Amazon. I suspect that the sellers are not aware of the regulations and Amazon is not fully aware that the product they are shipping is banned in California.

I needed old formula Watco Danish Oil finish to restore the finish on an old chair. New formula was available, including California, but I wanted to match the original finish. I found a seller who had it on Amazon. Unlike with other sellers, Amazon allowed that order to go through even though they should have blocked it.

 

Amazon tries to block shipments of banned solvents to California. They are not always successful at detecting what is allowed and what is not.

Small sellers sometimes ship banned solvents to California through Amazon. I suspect that the sellers are not aware of the regulations and Amazon is not fully aware that the product they are shipping is banned in California.

I needed old formula Watco Danish Oil finish to restore the finish on an old chair. New formula was available, including California, but I wanted to match the original finish. I found a seller who had it on Amazon. Unlike with other sellers, Amazon allowed that order to go through even though they should have blocked it.

Amazon sometimes blocks shipments of regulated materials.

I purchased potassium dichromate through Amazon. This is a hazardous material and must be clearly labelled according to federal regulations; and shipments have all kinds of packaging and labeling requirements. It arrived in a box via Fed Ex with absolutely none of the required labeling. Inside the heavy plastic bag was flopping around in the cardboard box with zero padding, etc. The only label was a small stick-on "Potassium dichromate 1 pound." Not even a skull and crossbones.

The web site had no MSD information available as required, its a carcinogen, a teratogen, causes skin burns, etc. The scary part was that there were customer reviews that indicated it had been sold to unsuspecting kids for high school science projects. I notified amazon twice and got no response, no surprise there. an email to the company got a "FU" response. Then I notified the US consumer Product Safety Commission, through a contact there. After another couple of months it finally disappeared from Amazon.

So, the company violate federal law by introducing a hazardous material into commerce without required warnings and docs. Amazon violated federal law by allowing it to be sold without required warnings or MSD. FedEx violated federal law by accepting it and transporting it. And it took going directly to a federal agency to stop tis madness. Normally, I would not stick my nose into such a situation, but someone was bound to get hurt here.