I don’t have a Sawstop…

But remember, something is better than nothing..

You can practice safety, but everytime you turn it on, you could have an accident..

 

Some of the hotdog videos are at a normal ripping speed. I do have a sawstop professional. Set aside the safety feature, it is a quality saw. What you are paying for the safety could be argued buy my guess is under a grand.
Then there is this...zero regrets

 

Some of the hotdog videos are at a normal ripping speed. I do have a sawstop professional. Set aside the safety feature, it is a quality saw. What you are paying for the safety could be argued buy my guess is under a grand.
Then there is this...zero regrets

Really hoping those aren't all your pics.

For the OP, there is a video I recall seeing of a guy slapping his hand down on a running sawstop table saw. Now, he took some precautions. Specifically, he clamped a wood block over the blade. Raised the running blade so that it was just barely poking out the top of the board. Then slapped his hand down on it. And it seemed to work all the same as the hotdog videos.

I don't have a sawstop. But can't fault people who like the security of it. Yet making contact with the blade isn't the only way a TS can ruin your day (e.g. kickback). For which the sawstop does nothing to mitigate. Still, mistakes happen. But if you're paying attention, using good techniques, and other safety features (blade guard, riving knife, push blocks, etc.), there's no reason one's body should contact a spinning TS blade.

ETA: On another note, I have a lot of respect for the Sawstop origin story (if true). Basically the inventor tried pitching the design to just about every MFG. None were interested in making a deal. So he went out and started his own company. Embedding the tech in saws that would be solid even without it. Taking a nice chunk of the market share from the companies that had once turned him down.

 

People seem to or have no understanding how it works.....it's tripped by electricity.to operating the Saw Stop....which is extremely fast....like a electric safety breaker switch saves you from from electrocuting yourself cutting a power lead with your saw....same as reactive armour works on protecting tanks from being hit by RPGs...
Wouldn't slap my finger on a table saw with saw stop deliberately.. doesn't really matter if the hotdog is moving slow or fast..the electrical switch that operating it is alot faster
And you couldn't pay me enough money to sit in an abarim tank while someone shoots it with n RPG...no matter how much they say that it's safe

 

I slice hot dogs with a chef's knife which is much cheaper than a TS. Only had one injury ER visit in the last few years: cut my thumb while making a salad. I have worked around all kinds of machinery and learned to respect them.

 

I value my fingers, and don't have a sawstop. If you want a standard unisaw/powmatic clone then it is a viable alternative. If you want a slider, or heavier saw its not an appropriate alternative.

 

Please don't start a Sawstop thread as we have all heard everything.

If you want a Sawstop, then get one.

If you do not want one get something else.

I do not care what you do.....

 

It was going on long before you guys were on the forums..

 

Responding to @nealf.apvisions (Neal's) original post above:

First things first:
I have a SawStop PCS175 cabinet saw. It is an excellent table saw. I try to answer questions about SawStop when I see them here, but not to push SawStop over other equally good table saws. Whatever table saw anyone chooses, I wish them well, and hope they are pleased and use it safely.

I view the SawStop safety brake mechanism and treat the premium cost for it as insurance. I follow the best safety practices I can whether or not I am using a SawStop table saw. I hope I never trigger it and so far I have not. A SawStop will protect you from a severe flesh / blade contact injury, but a SawStop is no better than other modern saws for preventing kickbacks, which can also result in severe injury.

Misconceptions about the SawStop Hot Dog Demo:

I have given the SawStop hot dog demo several times. Not on my home saw. SawStop provides a demo kit with a blade and a brake to use. By the way, the brake is special in the sense that the saw will run for a limited time, to keep people from taking it home as a replacement without paying for one. The blade is an ordinary SawStop blade, and I don't remember if they expect it returned or not.

To give the demo, you place a hot dog several inches behind the leading edge of a decent size piece of plywood and make a rip cut. You hold the hot dog down on the plywood with your left hand so the hot dog overlaps the cut line reasonably far from your hand. You use your right hand to make a fast cut through the plywood until the blade gets to the hot dog. There is a loud bang and the blade is gone.

To be honest, it is a challenge for me to push the cut that fast. You know that a loud bang is coming, but you try not to be intimidated. The first time I did it, I was told to cut much faster. Thereafter I pushed the plywood through as fast as I could. I know others who can do it faster, but the point is that the cut is way faster than my normal pace.

It was nearly impossible to find the blade mark on the hot dog. After my first demo, I resorted to bringing the hot dog near the non-running blade to put a Sharpie dot on the hot dog at the cut point, so I would know where to look later. Even with a Sharpie mark and a very fast cut, it was hard to find the contact point. Most of the time, neither me nor anyone in the audience could find the mark.

Trust me, I ran the hot dog demo as fast as I could. It was scary fast. When it wasn't my turn, I know others who did it even faster. We all got similar results.

Risk of Carbide Chips:

Regarding the carbide chips flying, I first saw that a few months ago. It did not bother me:

(1) The only time it should happen is if the saw is in the process of saving you from a severe blade contact injury. (In fairness, many triggers are caused by accidental contact with metal. I was near two different triggers, both caused by an improperly configured Incra metal fence.)

(2) The brake on my saw is underneath the table. I wonder what the chances are that a carbide chip would be perfectly aimed through the slot at your unprotected eye? Hopefully you are wearing eye protection, and hopefully the chips would be contained, or at worse miss your eye. By definition, the probability of a chip can be no greater than the chances of a trigger in the first place, and after that compound it with the probability that if a chip happens, it would be aimed at an eye. The odds that a meteorite would strike your shop could be higher.

That's my 2 cents worth.

 

Got a PCS 3hp. Love it. If you don't want one don't buy one,

 

I have the Industrial SawStop in spite of the claimed safety features. And I mean in spite of all their safety propaganda and the talk about making it law, I didn't buy it because they are local to me. I bought it because it was so solid and smooth and just smacks of quality.
I have never set it off but my brother has three times, I know because the comes and gets my spare cartridges. Two of his mishaps were because of what he was sawing and the third was him brushing the blade before it completely stopped. And in that case it didn't draw blood.

 

Did you really need another thread to bemoan some hallucinated persecution? You have a 50+ post thread where many people have provided insightful commentary about TS recommendations. At no point did any person--either directly or indirectly--indicate you are an "idiot" for not picking a SawStop.

The only people as annoying as those that act like a SawStop is the only reasonable option are those that spend their time trying to to prove why those who do have one are wasting their money, and that by choosing something else they're making some bold statement.

 

@nealf.apvisions (the OP) said "many people". In the other thread, one person said something about "not valuing your fingers", but several denounced it immediately and we moved on. Maybe I have forgotten others, but I hope it was not "many" people.

SawStop has a long and interesting history regarding its origins, relationships with other table saw manufacturers, SawStop's many patents, and the potential CPSC table saw regulations currently under consideration. The four topics are interrelated in multiple ways, and there have been many unexpected twists and turns over the years, some of which I learned only this year.

Bringing those topics up won't help the OP choose a table saw, however. I have been avoiding them because they are not applicable to this thread. Rather than starting another thread, I recommend that you search for those long discussions already played out here and also at WoodworkingTalk.

The OP has made it clear that they do not want a SawStop, and most people here are perfectly fine with that, including me. They started this thread to explain their reasons and objections. In my opinion, the OP has been mislead about what they saw in those videos and their implications. I and others responded with clarifications and facts as we know them. I hope they helped.

 

Point taken

 

I religiously avoid buying cars with seatbelts, airbags, or even a steel outer frame because if you're not willing to risk it, don't buy it.

And why even use a pushstick when you're speed-sawing? C'mon.

Look--buy what you want, and you're right--a SawStop isn't like buying a room full of pillows--but you have to admit it's better than nothing. And it's a darn good saw, regardless of any safety tech.

 

I agree. My point was my choice not to buy a SawStop does not make me an idiot. I probably should have taken a different tact instead of starting a new thread. Sorry

 

In my humble opinion.

Saw stop is a great saw - that I have seen. Their politics have a whole lot to be desired.

There are 3 things about table and cabinet saws. I have had the first 2.

1. Bare blade - very easy to bind the wood against the fence and have the wood thrown back at you.

2. blade with riving - have this now. Reduced binding to almost nothing. Much better but still had a piece of wood under stress splinter off and try to go through my hand.
Sawstop can’t prevent that either.

3. Sawstop type of technology.

Of all 3 - go with 2 and 3. 1 is the most dangerous but must of us older folks have used #1 for many years.

I am still waiting for the guard on my miter saw, chisels, and planes. The miter saw does have a guard unless the blade is down

The only time I came in contact with a blade was cutting flooring on my miter saw and I tinged it on the side of the teeth. Cuts skin very quickly. I was tired and in a hurry to get done. Stupid.

it doesn’t matter much what you have. If you don’t pay attention, you will get hurt. Nobody’s fault but your own. If you can’t handle that, don’t go in the shop.

 

You are the deciding factor as to who can comment who cannot? Newbies to the conversation have no opinion?

 

100% right your are allowed an opinion, but Sawstop is a very sensitive subject that doesn’t need to be reactivated.

 

I wasn't intending to simply reactivate a conversation, as you put it. This morning, I received a Lumberjocks email listing a number of what I assumed were current threads. The email subject was "Trending Posts". I simply responded to one of those trending posts. It was dated September 16. Seems pretty current to me. If it is such a sensitive subject for you, then don't read about it.

 

As far as cutting wood, Sawstop is no better than products from Grizzly, Jet, Powermatic, Delta, etc. For safety it is vastly superior. I actually sold my Inca 2200 a Swiss made saw which is better made than anything else I've seen and bought the Sawstop for the safety feature. I've seen dozens of posts on Facebook where people show that they touched the blade and sustained no more than a tiny nick before the mechanism engaged to keep them safe.

 

While I'm not in any position to own a saw stop, nor at my age I don't really need one. That being said, after 60 odd years of all kinds of woodworking, I can still count to 10 without removing my shoes. Safe practices are paramount.
I imagine many shops, large and small prefer an extra measure of safety, not to mention saving on insurance, lost time, and emotional costs.
Additionally there is antidotical theories that manufactures don't want to put it on their on products lest they be required to put it on all of their products.
I say each to their own.
Be safe and good luck.

 

You can easy see many conversations on Sawstop by doing a Google search..

 

I do not understand. The reason that the videos are in slow motion is because the action is so fast you do not see it when shown in real time. You hear a bang and your blade is gone. Having triggered mine I did not know what happened. No shrapnel etc as you describe seeing. If you don’t wear safety glasses in your shop please don’t buy a Sawstop that would be a waste of money. I do not understand the venom directed towards Sawstop and most reasonable safety precautions on this forum. I understand that it is a cost question but if you are in the market for a new cabinet saw the prices are very competitive. Reminds me of my folks in manufacturing who spent significant time trying to outwit double safeties on a unit that required them to hold buttons down simultaneously with both hands on a punch press

 

I understand that it is a cost question but if you are in the market for a new cabinet saw the prices are very competitive.

Honestly, this has been mentioned over and over again and yet people still seem to cling to it. Cost is not the sole reason, although the increased initial purchase cost and higher long term operating costs do play a part in the decision making process. There are many other factors that people look at when deciding what to buy, such as reduced functionality compared to other saws, limited lifespan due to proprietary electronics and other components, single source of replacement parts, particularly now that they are owned by Festool, etc...

As pointed out many times in this and other threads, this horse has been beaten to death - and it still seems to come up regularly every couple of months. If you are trying to decide, there are tons of 'discussions' out there already, and not really any need to bring up yet another IMO.

Cheers,
Brad

 

The problem is it always fall into politics..

Its here, skip the politics.

 

Yup. Unfortunately people will deliberately decide against something beneficial b/c of internal biases and opinions about corporations etc. IF that day comes and you 10 minus it won't seem to matter, will it?

 

Set my SS off once. Pushed the fence with Jess-um hold downs and touched the blade and POW BANG. The hold downs needed set a little before and after the blade(so thy will never touch again). Expensive mistake. I have the construction model CNS. Extremely difficult to realign after setting off. Used indicator on the blade. SS sent special instructions by email not even in the manual. Best safety device we all have is our mind from the get go thinking safety. This is my virgin post. Safety first without question.

 

I love my portable job site pro Saw Stop, it was an upgrade from my Bosh 4100 which was a nice saw also. But the Saw Stop is a better saw even without the blade stop technology in my opinion.
Easy to change blades to dado stacked back again, riving knife is easy to put on and take off. The saw may be a little under-powered as all these type may be. The saw folds-up easier than the Bosh 4100 again in my opinion.
I didn't mind paying the extra money for my piece of mind, but do what you will. To me the portable job site pro Saw Stop was well worth the investment. With my piece of mind if a family member of friend might use it they would be safer, not free of total mishaps but far better off.
Too many people think nothing will ever happen to them, reality tells a different tale.
Stay safe all.........................

 

The proprietary electronics is what scares me. How long before some accountant decides it is not profitable enough to make the cartridge, and a non backward compatible cartridge is introduced, with the existing one phased out?(And I am very pleased with my now old DW 746 and it's built in sliding table.) And there are many tools and machines that are also dangerous without some type of stop technology.

 

Since the patent is in the public domain if you are so concerned please go ahead and begin to design and manufacture cartridges. Only a matter of time until there are counterfeit cartridges that may or may not work.

 

That is something that you can bank on. Planned obsolescence.

that is when you get a spare brake and set the saw to not use the safety features, making what I have now.

 

Thanks jay1.........It's truly unbelievable what people come up with some may be justified, much of it is not. I for one like mine, it's a better saw than my old Bosch 4100 which by most accounts is a nice portable table saw.
Mistakes are part of the human equation, no one intends to get injured most think it'll never happen to them. I'm pretty sure more than one person if had the chance would gladly pay the few hundred dollars extra for the protection Saw Stop affords.

 

The politics that swirl around SawStop never ends. People have strong opinions about the saws and the politics.

To newbies:
Be wary of opinions and "statements of fact" about SawStop, including comments in forums like Lumberjocks. I have seen many that are false, misleading, or omit key information that changes the meaning.