Hi i want to use a sanding paste on my turnings but they have oil and wax in them. Can I use shellac after using oil and wax thanks
Karda
sanding paste
Never heard of sanding paste would be nice if provided a brand name of the product.
Know some turners using this product with mineral oil as a final finish or but with sandpaper, others use it over oil or film finish.
https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/43/1270/staples-Crystal-Clear-Paste-Wax
Here is an old review and use of the product:
https://www.lumberjocks.com/reviews/product/3208
Not sure lot of turners still make their own bees wax & mineral oil mix to sand & finish their work these days. Have to heat bees wax and not burn it & mix with MO before sanding with it.
Was a post here month or so back where guy found vendor in US selling this stuff but think its an unecessary step in finishing process.
https://turnerswoodproducts.com/products/combo-pack
I have and use Minwax furniture furniture polish or Johnson's paste floor wax on top of final finishes sometimes never before.
Know some turners using this product with mineral oil as a final finish or but with sandpaper, others use it over oil or film finish.
https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/43/1270/staples-Crystal-Clear-Paste-Wax
Here is an old review and use of the product:
https://www.lumberjocks.com/reviews/product/3208
Not sure lot of turners still make their own bees wax & mineral oil mix to sand & finish their work these days. Have to heat bees wax and not burn it & mix with MO before sanding with it.
Was a post here month or so back where guy found vendor in US selling this stuff but think its an unecessary step in finishing process.
https://turnerswoodproducts.com/products/combo-pack
I have and use Minwax furniture furniture polish or Johnson's paste floor wax on top of final finishes sometimes never before.
Sanding paste?
Local AZ club has write up on how to make your own sanding/polishing finish for wood turnings.
http://azwoodturners.org/pages/tips/HomemadeFrictionPolish.pdf
While not 'sanding paste', it does help sand while creating a polished surface.
Since it has no wax, can apply additional top coats for extra protection if needed.
Can buy similar commercial solution from Doctor's Woodshop: http://doctorswoodshop.com/
YMMV
Local AZ club has write up on how to make your own sanding/polishing finish for wood turnings.
http://azwoodturners.org/pages/tips/HomemadeFrictionPolish.pdf
While not 'sanding paste', it does help sand while creating a polished surface.
Since it has no wax, can apply additional top coats for extra protection if needed.
Can buy similar commercial solution from Doctor's Woodshop: http://doctorswoodshop.com/
YMMV
Make your own:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ack%27s+paste+wax+videos&&view=detail&mid=367CB8398B47BB6E842A367CB8398B47BB6E842A&rvsmid=718399C089860E187C0D718399C089860E187C0D&FORM=VDRVRV
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Garden-Safe-Brand-Diatomaceous-Earth-4-lb-Insect-Killer/3276739
That bug stuff less expensive than Tripoli powder!
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_CAds=&_ex_kw=&_fpos=&_fspt=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_nkw=tripoli+powder&_sacat=&_sadis=&_sop=12&_udhi=&_udlo=&_fosrp=1
Pure bees wax pretty expensive by the pound less if buy by the ounce not sure about cost to ship or how to change formula from shown in the video.
https://www.ebeehoney.com/beeswax.html
Bottle of mineral oil less than $2.00 at Walmart last time bought some.
Might be easier and about same cost to buy Ack's product or some other like it.
Whether use homemade or commercial product that's the only finish you need. You will have to sand to higher grit papers before using. If leave any visible scratches probably going to show after using sanding paste. Whether adding any top coat of finish will stick after using sanding paste is SWAG!
So finish with number of coats of shellac turning needs then use a sanding paste wax mix.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ack%27s+paste+wax+videos&&view=detail&mid=367CB8398B47BB6E842A367CB8398B47BB6E842A&rvsmid=718399C089860E187C0D718399C089860E187C0D&FORM=VDRVRV
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Garden-Safe-Brand-Diatomaceous-Earth-4-lb-Insect-Killer/3276739
That bug stuff less expensive than Tripoli powder!
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_CAds=&_ex_kw=&_fpos=&_fspt=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_nkw=tripoli+powder&_sacat=&_sadis=&_sop=12&_udhi=&_udlo=&_fosrp=1
Pure bees wax pretty expensive by the pound less if buy by the ounce not sure about cost to ship or how to change formula from shown in the video.
https://www.ebeehoney.com/beeswax.html
Bottle of mineral oil less than $2.00 at Walmart last time bought some.
Might be easier and about same cost to buy Ack's product or some other like it.
Whether use homemade or commercial product that's the only finish you need. You will have to sand to higher grit papers before using. If leave any visible scratches probably going to show after using sanding paste. Whether adding any top coat of finish will stick after using sanding paste is SWAG!
So finish with number of coats of shellac turning needs then use a sanding paste wax mix.
I was assuming that you were talking about something like Yorkshire Grit or EEE-Ultra Shine. Both of these use a fine abrasive in a wax base.
If you remove the paste with mineral spirits, you can put a shellac finish over Yorkshire Grit for sure. I've done it. I used the Grit essentially as a very fine sandpaper. The first time I tried to put a finish over it, the results were not spectacular. I think that I did a poor job of removing the wax. When it took the wax off with mineral spirits, the results were better.
If you remove the paste with mineral spirits, you can put a shellac finish over Yorkshire Grit for sure. I've done it. I used the Grit essentially as a very fine sandpaper. The first time I tried to put a finish over it, the results were not spectacular. I think that I did a poor job of removing the wax. When it took the wax off with mineral spirits, the results were better.
I use automotive products on turnings. Depends on the actual finish and the look I want, but wet/dry sandpaper, used with poly if thats the finish, or oil or water for fully filled lacquer. Lacquer gets finished out with Meguiars compounds for the final shine. For poly wipe on, Vinces Woodandwonders sells white polishing pads for drill use that are used to polish and apply wax.
Think the simpler you keep your finishing procedure easier and less time consuming also less expensive!
Ack's & Yorkshire essentially the same thing with minor difference in chemistry maybe. EEE Shine little different in that Shellwax recommended for final top coat. You have a wax either bees, carnauba, or both types, mineral or some other oil, and fine powder and make an easy to apply friction finish by themselves! Yorkshire says can use a top coat of finish on top of their product and guess you can if use recommended top coats. Homebrew's contain pretty much same ingredients.
These sanding pastes with waxes probably good stand alone finish on closed grain or exotic oil woods not so sure about cross or open grain woods! Definitely think twice about using these products over wood with blemishes or defects such as knots or wood with bark still on.
Have my doubts just how well these products deal with scratches on bare wood. Where they probably excel is removing blemishes or smoothing out final film finish! Also if want to go from high gloss to matt or satin finish. A less expensive alternative to removing blemishes or smoothing out a film finish is wet sanding with micromesh.
Honestly think starting with & ending with right grits of sandpaper on dry wood should remove all but minor blemishes & scratches. Don't know any film finish that won't hide those!
Ack's & Yorkshire essentially the same thing with minor difference in chemistry maybe. EEE Shine little different in that Shellwax recommended for final top coat. You have a wax either bees, carnauba, or both types, mineral or some other oil, and fine powder and make an easy to apply friction finish by themselves! Yorkshire says can use a top coat of finish on top of their product and guess you can if use recommended top coats. Homebrew's contain pretty much same ingredients.
These sanding pastes with waxes probably good stand alone finish on closed grain or exotic oil woods not so sure about cross or open grain woods! Definitely think twice about using these products over wood with blemishes or defects such as knots or wood with bark still on.
Have my doubts just how well these products deal with scratches on bare wood. Where they probably excel is removing blemishes or smoothing out final film finish! Also if want to go from high gloss to matt or satin finish. A less expensive alternative to removing blemishes or smoothing out a film finish is wet sanding with micromesh.
Honestly think starting with & ending with right grits of sandpaper on dry wood should remove all but minor blemishes & scratches. Don't know any film finish that won't hide those!
thanks for your information, I am not trying to replace sanding. from videos i have seen sanding paste is used above 220. so yea I have to sand right to begin with. My concern for topcoating with shellac is wet sanding with mineral oil and beeswax, I have some but didn't want to ruin the bowl for finishes if I use it
Below is the past I make myself (published on the instructables web site):
https://www.instructables.com/id/Making-and-Using-Inexpensive-Buff-Compounds-for-Wo/
This is what my turnings look like after using the paste, then spraying lacquer over, making it obvious shellac would do just fine.
![Image]()
![Image]()
https://www.instructables.com/id/Making-and-Using-Inexpensive-Buff-Compounds-for-Wo/
This is what my turnings look like after using the paste, then spraying lacquer over, making it obvious shellac would do just fine.
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thanks for the information, i would never have thought of using a toilet ring. I'm glad it can be top coated with shellac thanks Mike
Kelly, maybe missing something but don't see where your home brew adds anything to those items in the pictures posted! Some of the commercial products give specific final finishes to use over top of their products and some don't.
Kelly, regardless of color those wax bowl rings 100% petroleum wax that may or may not contain microbial additives guarding against mold, mildew, and bacterial growth on wax. Plumber have been calling them bees wax for long time but definitely not! Prior to addition those additives those wax rings would attract mold & mildew.
From reading your instructions; why can't people use regular paraffin wax another petroleum wax? Mike Peace explains why he prefers to use diatomanceous earth over pumice & rottenstone, pure bees wax and mineral oil in his video posted earlier. All of his ingredients are non-toxic and meant to be a final fish for his turnings.
JMHO, where sanding paste with or without wax excels is finishing the finish of other film finishes or as stand alone finish. A good paste wax alone can help remove flaws in a final finish by itself while on or off the lathe. Much expensive way today to finish the finish is simple micromesh sheets, wet sanding with drop of dish soap in the water!
Using sanding paste under a film finish can really gum up the procedure for many novice finishers!
Kelly, regardless of color those wax bowl rings 100% petroleum wax that may or may not contain microbial additives guarding against mold, mildew, and bacterial growth on wax. Plumber have been calling them bees wax for long time but definitely not! Prior to addition those additives those wax rings would attract mold & mildew.
From reading your instructions; why can't people use regular paraffin wax another petroleum wax? Mike Peace explains why he prefers to use diatomanceous earth over pumice & rottenstone, pure bees wax and mineral oil in his video posted earlier. All of his ingredients are non-toxic and meant to be a final fish for his turnings.
JMHO, where sanding paste with or without wax excels is finishing the finish of other film finishes or as stand alone finish. A good paste wax alone can help remove flaws in a final finish by itself while on or off the lathe. Much expensive way today to finish the finish is simple micromesh sheets, wet sanding with drop of dish soap in the water!
Using sanding paste under a film finish can really gum up the procedure for many novice finishers!
My home brew is not a finish. It's a home made polish (or polishes).
The items pictured had to be polished to bring the plastics back to transparent. I sand to from 150 grit to 320 grit and use it to bring the plastic back.
You might notice my quote marks around the "wax." They were there for the obvious reason. I believe many of the so called wax rings are just the product of more manipulation of soy.
The only reason I didn't try the paraffin is, I don't remember where I put the five pound block so I wouldn't forget it, and it's harder to dissolve than the toilet ring. As long as it dissolves in the thinner, it's fair game, in my opinion, so it's worth a trial run. It may even work better in other applications.
Whoever Mike Peace is, I agree. I noted I like the diatomaceous earth even more than the finer powders, like cerium oxide and [green] chromium oxide for polishing wood and plastic. Still, it could be the others have their place. After all, the buff compounds we get downtown are all over the board (white, red, green, blue) for stainless, copper, plastic, glass. etc.
The photos are of turnings I used my polish on after sanding to 150 or 220. The only prep I did, before applying lacquer, was using a clean rag to remove most the residue.
I don't know I'd agree to the statement this and other compounds excel on other finishes, since this end result on these seems pretty decent to me, and those who've gotten one of these. The simple of it is, the plastics in these and other things I play with equate to a finish.
Note the only reason these have lacquer on the plastic portions is because it would be foolish to try to mask the plastic to keep the lacquer off it. Regardless, even with minimal effort, things like this have never shown signs of a problem, regardless if I was using a friction finish, poly, lacquer or shellac.
![Image]()
![Image]()
![Image]()
![Image]()
The items pictured had to be polished to bring the plastics back to transparent. I sand to from 150 grit to 320 grit and use it to bring the plastic back.
You might notice my quote marks around the "wax." They were there for the obvious reason. I believe many of the so called wax rings are just the product of more manipulation of soy.
The only reason I didn't try the paraffin is, I don't remember where I put the five pound block so I wouldn't forget it, and it's harder to dissolve than the toilet ring. As long as it dissolves in the thinner, it's fair game, in my opinion, so it's worth a trial run. It may even work better in other applications.
Whoever Mike Peace is, I agree. I noted I like the diatomaceous earth even more than the finer powders, like cerium oxide and [green] chromium oxide for polishing wood and plastic. Still, it could be the others have their place. After all, the buff compounds we get downtown are all over the board (white, red, green, blue) for stainless, copper, plastic, glass. etc.
The photos are of turnings I used my polish on after sanding to 150 or 220. The only prep I did, before applying lacquer, was using a clean rag to remove most the residue.
I don't know I'd agree to the statement this and other compounds excel on other finishes, since this end result on these seems pretty decent to me, and those who've gotten one of these. The simple of it is, the plastics in these and other things I play with equate to a finish.
Note the only reason these have lacquer on the plastic portions is because it would be foolish to try to mask the plastic to keep the lacquer off it. Regardless, even with minimal effort, things like this have never shown signs of a problem, regardless if I was using a friction finish, poly, lacquer or shellac.
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By now, "OP," realizes sanding paste not what he expected! The need to strive for off the tool finish will shorten any ones sanding sequence. Sanding paste finishing products by themselves will remove scratches from wood.
Kelly meet Mike!
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mike+peace+woodturner
Kelly you & Mike not the only turners using homemade oil, wax, & abrasive powders as a finish. Mixtures and procedure been around long before I ever got into turning wood. On many projects will serve as a final finish and of course some not so much.
If you found the perfect ingredients to make your finish and happy with the results that's all that matters. I use the Hut product on lot of acrylic pens.
Most wood finishers & re-finishers opt for simple & reliable products. Re-finishers especially those working with antiques may have more unusual products like dyes, oils, and powders they use on those rare occasions they need.
Kelly meet Mike!
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mike+peace+woodturner
Kelly you & Mike not the only turners using homemade oil, wax, & abrasive powders as a finish. Mixtures and procedure been around long before I ever got into turning wood. On many projects will serve as a final finish and of course some not so much.
If you found the perfect ingredients to make your finish and happy with the results that's all that matters. I use the Hut product on lot of acrylic pens.
Most wood finishers & re-finishers opt for simple & reliable products. Re-finishers especially those working with antiques may have more unusual products like dyes, oils, and powders they use on those rare occasions they need.
Hi, I appreciate everybody's input it is very informative and it helps. But I do know what sanding paste is for and am aware that proper sanding come first Fro the many replies I wonder if any body even read my question. It has nothing to do with sanding or how and when to use it here is my question. "Hi i want to use a sanding paste on my turnings but they have oil and wax in them. Can I use shellac after using oil and wax thanks "
Being the spelling cop that I am, you need to put an "M" after FRO. Otherwise, I have to agree with the statement…..... Jerry (in Tucson)
Wildwood, again, it is NOT a finish. I ONLY use it for polishing. Karda was asking about shellac over such things and I described what I made, how I used it, then showed photos of finishes on the turnings immediately after finishing the polishing.
IF you used this as a finish, it would be a crappy one. It would have little durability, AND the finish goes satin within hours or so.
I don't know why you needed to point out that I didn't invent polishing compounds or the use of them. My posts about my process of making it stated, clearly, I made them to save money buying commercial products. They, nowhere stated I thought I was the first person among the 300,000,00 American, all the Europeans or others in the world to reverse engineer, so to speak, the commercial products.
IF you used this as a finish, it would be a crappy one. It would have little durability, AND the finish goes satin within hours or so.
I don't know why you needed to point out that I didn't invent polishing compounds or the use of them. My posts about my process of making it stated, clearly, I made them to save money buying commercial products. They, nowhere stated I thought I was the first person among the 300,000,00 American, all the Europeans or others in the world to reverse engineer, so to speak, the commercial products.
Karda, my posts above stated I used finishes over the turnings, after polishing with my "wax" based compound, without jumping through absurd hoops (e.g., running the turning with solvent on a rag to remove excess, etc.).
As noted above, the photos are of lacquer finished turnings. Of course, shellac is the go to base for many things, and less finicky than lacquer, but I use shellac too, just not with the specific items I showed.
As noted above, the photos are of lacquer finished turnings. Of course, shellac is the go to base for many things, and less finicky than lacquer, but I use shellac too, just not with the specific items I showed.
I never said I wanted to use it as a finish. Kelly your article was very helpful that answered a lot of questions
If do an internet search for "sanding paste," wont get a clear answer! Again what product are you talking about?
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/sanding-paste-t50172.html
Karda you never say which product you are asking about. Instructions for these products quite clear about procedure and about final finish to use.
Acks wood paste
https://ackswoodpaste.com/
Yorkshire Grit
http://yorkshire-grit.com/product-page/
EEE Utra Shine
https://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=finish-shellawax
Yes many woodturners have been making & using their own homemade stuff as a final finish! On many applications that will suffice and of course not all.
With good quality sandpaper available today & proper sanding procedure are the commercial and homemade products necessary in finishing procedures? Only you can answer that question! They might serve you better to fix flaws in final finish if done correctly.
Do you need to remove all wax before applying a final finish? Only you can answer that question! Because that depends upon product and who you ask!
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/sanding-paste-t50172.html
Karda you never say which product you are asking about. Instructions for these products quite clear about procedure and about final finish to use.
Acks wood paste
Yorkshire Grit
http://yorkshire-grit.com/product-page/
EEE Utra Shine
https://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=finish-shellawax
Yes many woodturners have been making & using their own homemade stuff as a final finish! On many applications that will suffice and of course not all.
With good quality sandpaper available today & proper sanding procedure are the commercial and homemade products necessary in finishing procedures? Only you can answer that question! They might serve you better to fix flaws in final finish if done correctly.
Do you need to remove all wax before applying a final finish? Only you can answer that question! Because that depends upon product and who you ask!
I am Mike Peace and I did the series of videos listed earlier by Wildwood. Shellac will go over just about anything including a surface that used a sanding paste or abrasive paste. Just make sure you do clean up the surface of any excess paste/abrasive.
I have at least $500.00 in sandpaper in my shop. That includes a lot of aluminum oxide, carbide and 3-M flavored stuff in rolls, hook-and-loop pads, and sheets. If I don't count siding sanders, grits range from 40 to 3,000, or higher, if you include the granite working stuff.
Add to that, I have jars of cerium oxide, chromium oxide, diatomaceous and so on. Then there are my various commercial buff compounds in sticks and liquids.
So, I agree. We have a metric ton of choices. However, the polishes I make up cost me a fraction of what, for example, the Festool disks or diamond polishing pads do. Too, they get into crevices the papers and cloth sand pads and such cannot.
Fine sandpapers and such load really quick and you can't use them with water or oil. On the other hand, loading a cloth or paper towel with compound is the game you want to play.
On removing the polish before applying finishes, it sounds like a good excuse to learn something, and to test reasoning skills.
For example, paint thinner, turpentine, delemonine and Naphtha all work to dissolve toilet ring wax and real bees wax and keep them fairly well suspended. Since these thin polyurethane too, it would stand to reason there is a good probability the poly would play well with an item polished then cleaned of the polish using a fresh paper towel or rag. Even more so, if cleaned with a cloth dampened in a solvent.
Then there is shellac. I haven't tested the "wax" with alcohol. Denatured or other. I use a lot of it though, both as a sealer and a quick and simple finish.
Think of shellac as kind of like Kilz, sans the pigment and binders.
I consider it so useful, I keep a jar of alcohol with a well used chip brush in it, next to a couple quarts of Zinsser (amber and clear) on my work station. When something needs a quick finish, I lift the brush, smack it against the insides of the jar, dip it in shellac and go for it.
Finally, there is the friction polish approach using shellac, linseed oil and alcohol. It takes longer to build coats on an lathe project, but it works too.
If these things don't work, it's only because you left five pounds of polishing compound on your turned item.
Add to that, I have jars of cerium oxide, chromium oxide, diatomaceous and so on. Then there are my various commercial buff compounds in sticks and liquids.
So, I agree. We have a metric ton of choices. However, the polishes I make up cost me a fraction of what, for example, the Festool disks or diamond polishing pads do. Too, they get into crevices the papers and cloth sand pads and such cannot.
Fine sandpapers and such load really quick and you can't use them with water or oil. On the other hand, loading a cloth or paper towel with compound is the game you want to play.
On removing the polish before applying finishes, it sounds like a good excuse to learn something, and to test reasoning skills.
For example, paint thinner, turpentine, delemonine and Naphtha all work to dissolve toilet ring wax and real bees wax and keep them fairly well suspended. Since these thin polyurethane too, it would stand to reason there is a good probability the poly would play well with an item polished then cleaned of the polish using a fresh paper towel or rag. Even more so, if cleaned with a cloth dampened in a solvent.
Then there is shellac. I haven't tested the "wax" with alcohol. Denatured or other. I use a lot of it though, both as a sealer and a quick and simple finish.
Think of shellac as kind of like Kilz, sans the pigment and binders.
I consider it so useful, I keep a jar of alcohol with a well used chip brush in it, next to a couple quarts of Zinsser (amber and clear) on my work station. When something needs a quick finish, I lift the brush, smack it against the insides of the jar, dip it in shellac and go for it.
Finally, there is the friction polish approach using shellac, linseed oil and alcohol. It takes longer to build coats on an lathe project, but it works too.
If these things don't work, it's only because you left five pounds of polishing compound on your turned item.
Hi, Sorry I didn't mention a product I didn't feel it was necessary when I mentioned wax and oil since many have one or both. I wanted to know if I can use that and then shellac. I have watched a number of videos and they don't mention final finish that I have noticed. Thanks Mike I learned of DIY sanding paste from your video. I have since made some and it work as advertised, now I wouldn't be without it Thanks Mike
Closest thing ever came across that might be called sanding paste, while not used much these days is pumice or rottenstone and mineral oil (no wax) used with soft cloth or felt pads to rub out final film finishes.
I posted a picture here of a coin bank around top coin slot can see ring of pumice dust where that top fits bank. Thought had remove all pumice paste with old tooth brush after rubbing out the finish. Cannot find that post. Turned that item more than 20 years ago, dust didn't appear for almost a year. Don't use pumice paste on any turning any more!
Learn how to use that paste mix in furniture refinishing shop! We used a good paste wax on top of that. Back then rottenstone paste used after pumice but not at shop I worked at.
I have no experience or used (abrasive, oil, wax) commercial or homemade products but have been aware of them. Have always thought commercial products too expensive. Have met many turners that love their homemade versions. From what have seen over the years think those homemade products make excellent finish by themselves. Also plain wax finishes.
So don't worry about not mentioning the product or asking your question think lot of good information posted. Also lot of different opinions which very healthy for a message board!
I posted a picture here of a coin bank around top coin slot can see ring of pumice dust where that top fits bank. Thought had remove all pumice paste with old tooth brush after rubbing out the finish. Cannot find that post. Turned that item more than 20 years ago, dust didn't appear for almost a year. Don't use pumice paste on any turning any more!
Learn how to use that paste mix in furniture refinishing shop! We used a good paste wax on top of that. Back then rottenstone paste used after pumice but not at shop I worked at.
I have no experience or used (abrasive, oil, wax) commercial or homemade products but have been aware of them. Have always thought commercial products too expensive. Have met many turners that love their homemade versions. From what have seen over the years think those homemade products make excellent finish by themselves. Also plain wax finishes.
So don't worry about not mentioning the product or asking your question think lot of good information posted. Also lot of different opinions which very healthy for a message board!
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