I'd say it depends on how attracted you are to mechanical side of
machine woodworking. I've had combo jointer-planers by Robland,
Makita, Belsaw, and INCA. The Robland was the older XSD310
and while I really liked the mortiser on it, the jointer tables were
a bit fussy and the planer lacked refinement. It was very powerful though.

In terms of table saws, the tablesaw-shaper combos don't make much
compromise in the saw function and the shapers are powerful and there
when you need them; and the slider is there for tenoning and whatnot.

It's easy to buy more machine than you need. If you're doing full-scale
furniture making and building entry doors, those combo machines are
made for that kind of work. For sheet goods, only the higher-end
5-way combos are equal to a small dedicated slider.

I still have the INCA and only use it for the jointer. All my other machines,
presently, are not combos.

Resale value on bought-new combo machines is about half the new price -
and there's a lot of sellers gnashing their teeth at the losses they'll
take on these behemoths if they price them to sell for cash on the
second-hand market. Most of the used machines were bought new on
credit by inexperienced hobbiests or naive would-be pros, so condition
of the used machines is usually pretty good as they've seldom been
used much.

 

What you buy depends a lot on what you plan to make. You do not have to have a 72" extension on your table saw. Most woodworkers get by just fine without it. Quite a few garage woodworkers get by without a bandsaw and use a jig saw instead (again depending on what you plan to make).

If you are new to woodworking you might want to buy only the bare needed machines, like just a table saw, use it for a bit and decide if you really want to buy the rest. There are a lot of projects that can be done just fine with a table saw and finished lumber.

 

Maybe a Shopsmith is what you would like to look at. New ( they still make then here in Ohio), or used. Not sure about a planer for them, though.

 

I have to agree with Loren that resale on the 5-tool combination machines is limited. Still, as he aptly points out, they can be substantial machines. I own the Laguna Platinum with the 10" table saw, shaper, mortiser, and 12" jointer/planer. I bought the demo model at their store in Southern California… sweet story… I bought my wife the best engagement ring a high school teacher could afford, she's a doctor and bought me my dream woodworking machinery. I'd been in love with the Laguna since I saw it at the shop of one of Jim Krenov's alumni.

On the pro and con side of the combination machines by any maker is that they make it necessary for me to think my machine sequencing through to avoid frustrating back and forth's in set ups. That turns out to be a helpful discipline as I am not by nature a linear thinker.

On the point of their footprint in the workshop. That's trickier. Ultimately they take less space than 5 comparable machines, but they don't break down as small as five individual machines. That's only a problem when you relocate-which I've done three times-or if your shop is difficult to access, such as a basement or-heaven help you-an attic.

On the important question of machinery purchases for folk new to woodworking, Minorhero nails it that less is most often more, especially with the new generation of Festool caliber tools that give such high quality performance. Given how often I've ended up relocating I sometimes look with envy at the bench-top tools.

The problem is that I like to be able to dimension my wood beyond the usual thicknesses sold and have used bandsaws (I own the Laguna LT18 with the resaw table) for veneer cutting and leg work (a chair, not my own).

My sales and support experience with Laguna has been good. I bought the 5 tool combo, the LT18 bandsaw, their cyclone dust collector, and their ceiling dust filter. I already had a drill press. I'm told they're phasing out their 5-tool combos, but like Loren said, you can generally find them at embarrassingly good prices if you're good at that sort of thing.

I'm using one side of the garage and that get's a little tricky sometimes but I get an odd satisfaction with my small shop, it feels cozy. Good luck with your decisions.

 

Hey Jim, start with a good old Unisaw and a bandsaw. From there perhaps your space will grow. The multi-machines always start out as a good deal, but quickly turn into a shallow help. I've had my share of multi machines and always seemed to make excuses for the let down experienced by one or more parts of them. Nothing like a good Unisaw, on wheels and a substantial workbench to get started, then you'll find place for the items you need from there.

 

I really prefer dedicated tools. I would rather dance around a tablesaw and jointer than try to mess with adjusting a combo machine. I usually hear that they are okay, but not great. Sure there are exceptional combination machines but the price point is equal to adding another 2 bays to your shop space!

 

I guess we will never know what Jim decided. He hasn't been back since he made the original post.

 

I had and I still have in France a Lurem 5 operations combination machine,.I
used it for year as a semi-professional.
This si the perfect machine for small space and it worked very well with 3×3HP motors and a 12" jointer/planer.
The problem with this kind of machine is very fast it gets very old to change back and forth between the different function and except for cutting at length and cutting a tenon in one pass , one can do only one thing at the time.
Again, if your space is limited , this is the perfect solution and contrary to shopsmith and the like ,these are real professional (and expensive) machines.

 

Hi Bert,

Dont know wether you will pick this up as this was a topic from a couple of years ago. Was just wondering….i see you posted about your lurem combination machine. I have recently inherited my grandfather and have bought it to my workshop. its all in good working order but just needs working. was just wondering if you had anymore pictures of your as trying to work out a couple of things on mine. Where fences go etc.

Regards

Eddie

 

Eddie,there is picture in the post right above.
More here:
https://www.google.com/search?q=lurem+260&num=50&client=firefox-b-1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiI84WMz8TZAhVL4mMKHdzYBGIQsAQIKA&biw=1472&bih=709

 

One cannot go wrong with a Shopsmith. It may not be convenient as separate machines, but people have made some incredeable projects with them. I had one and sold it for what I paid for it when I got a big shop and separate machines. I'm sorry I did because the Shopsmith can be very useful for certain jobs like horizontal boring and as a drill press. You can pick up a used one for $100 and use it until you want to go with separate machines.

 

A shopsmith is just too limited in every way.
These five operations machines are real professional machine. The one that I had in France has 3×3HP motors on it, the joiner/planer is 12inches,the saw is 12 inches. It has a sliding table. It runs on 480 volts 3phases ( available everywere in France, not in the USA).

 

A Shopsmith is definitely not an industrial machine. However, they are well built and perform the functions for which they are designed very well.
I've owned one for over 40 years and, recently acquired a second one. There really isn't much woodworking that cannot be accomplished with a Shopsmith and their attachments.
That being said, I also use a Dewalt planer and, a Bosch SCMS.
For the money, a used Shopsmith will get you going until you decide which directions you want to go with your woodworking.

 

The big problem with combination machines is that very very fast it becomes very annoying to have to change back and forth between one operation and the other and at the end of the day you might have spend lot of time doing just that.The big advantage and this is why there are so popular in Europe is the space saving and yet still owning a real professional machine with all kind of power and attachments.
If room is not an issue, individual machines are much better.

I still have a 260M Lurem in France, with tons of accessories, that has not been used in well over 30 years!

 

You are correct, Bert. Most multi function machines such as the Shopsmith, are not designed to be production machines. Although, the change overs usually take less than 3 minutes. Not an issue for most hobbiests.

 

"the change overs usually take less than 3 minutes"
not necessarily true on 5 operations machines: you can spend 10 /15 minutes to set up and then just a few minutes to do what you need to do.
In addition, on the smaller machines you need to mess with the belt(s)

 

Bert - I'm looking at a used Lurem C317. Can't find much about them On the internet. I understand the company was sold around 2006. Unit is in great shape. Concerned that I won't be able to find replacement parts if needed. Would appreciate feedback. Anyone else familiar with Lurem? Thanks in advance for comments.

Steve

 

Years ago I had a shop smith… Its okay at doing things but not great. and the weakest part was the table saw. I have a shop just like yours a one car garage but I make it work! PUT CASTERS ON EVERYTHING!

I have to place my tablesaw in the exact center of the shop to rip a 8 foot long piece stock

 

Sure glad I did not buy a shopsmith. It seems the more do-it-all, the worse it does anything.
Machines on casters is the biggest help. I am finding I need less space on the TS as I now bring stuff to a more manageable size with my skill saw before bringing it in. I found most benchtop compact machines to not do a good job.

Easy to share table space with a TS/router or shaper. If I had the budget, a combo jointer/planer maybe, though I am keeping my big jointer ( now on casters) and will upgrade to the Dewalt planer. I went without a bandsaw for years, then got a 10 inch one. Upgrading to a 14 , on casters of course.

If a garage, you might consider being able to open the door and use a fold up awning in the driveway.

Big problem in small shops and small tools is dust collection. Dust kills. Slowly, but horribly.

I have slowly begun to understand the folks who say their band saw is the center of their shop. Some without table saws. Band saw, track saw, router and creativity in jigs can do a lot.

Oh, I found my Craftsman benchtop drill press to be big enough, powerful enough, but too flexible to drill for mortices. Moved to a big floor stander. I bet the small Nova does not have that problem.

 

Lurem are made of cast iron, they are dependable machines.
If it is not broken now not much can go wrong.
The only things that could go wrong are the electrical component's but they can be replaced, not necessarily easily but it can be done.
Other things like the joiner blades also can be found.
Be careful tat it is all metric
Where did you find this machine and where are you located?

https://noticemanuel.com/Telecharger-manuel-PDF-LUREM%20C317.pdf

 

After my father died last year the Lurem was sold and it went from France to Poland

 

Thanks for the prompt reply Bert. I live in College Station, TX. The Lurem is located in a cabinet shop close to Fort Worth. I'm going to inspect it Wednesday. I have a Shopsmith, but want a more robust machine. I'll have to purchase a rotary phase converter if I purchase the Lurem since it requires 3 phase power. Another concern I have is with dust collection. The owner of this machine says it doesn't have very good dust control. Any thoughts about dust collection? Aftermarket retrofit a possibility? I've just built a 30' x 40' shop so I have room for individual tools. But I'm a hobby woodworker and the cost of this used machine is a fraction of what I would spend on individual machines. I'm also new to Lumberjocks and really enjoy the content.

Thanks,

Steve

 

You can make a rotary phase converter your self for a fraction of the price you would pay for one.

https://www.nojolt.com/how-to-build-a-rotary-phase-converter.shtml

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=Hm6cXrH_Cczj-gS3qoXgBA&q=homemade+arotary+phase+converter+drawings&oq=home+made+rotary+p&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgBMgQIABANMgQIABANMgYIABANEB4yCAgAEAgQDRAeMggIABAIEA0QHjIICAAQCBANEB4yCAgAEAgQDRAeMggIABAIEA0QHjIFCAAQzQIyBQgAEM0COgUIABCDAToCCAA6BAgAEAo6BwgAEIMBEAo6CAghEBYQHRAeOgcIIRAKEKABUKkbWOROYMuAAWgDcAB4AIABgAGIAZwOkgEEMTUuNZgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXo&sclient=psy-ab

Not much concern was given to dust collection when these machine were built.
Again thisi ssomething you can do yourself, no big deal.
I made brand new base on my Delta Unisaw to have dust collection.
Fairly easy to do .

https://www.lumberjocks.com/b2rtch/blog/29941

 

Bert - I'm having trouble with the clutch mechanism that engages the planer roller feeds on the Lurem 317. The belt slips off when the lever is pushed to engage the roller feed sprocket. I'm curious if this is a common problem with the 317. I appreciate any feedback you might provide.

 

ive got a cu410e from minimax, and its pretty slick. I can go from saw to shaping to jointing to planing all in 10 minutes. Yeah individual machines would be nicer, but honestly not that much faster. The only thing I really dont like is the rip fence. It has two guide bars, it works great very rigid , but is a little silly.