1. You guys do realize that 2 years ago 60-70% of all searches were from a mobile device and that now that number is closer to 80%?
2. A laptop is not a mobile device. An ipad is.
3. Most sites optimize for iPad but not for the less popular devices
4. People had the same attitude when the tech changed from records>tapes>CD's>iPods>mp3>streaming>???
5. Who here doesn't use youtube?
6. When I'm talking to my ww buddy and he asks "what ya workin' on?" we are on facetime showing each other live what we are working on.

We all can assume that the people who say, "I don't use a smartphone or know how to text" are not the current crop of millennial woodworkers who will be using this site 20 years from now. They will have their 27th generation iPads on the work bench next to them. They will say to that iPad, "Show me plans for an XYZ made of walnut" We want it to say, "Lumberjocks' has 27 plans for that." and it will search and display those plans instantly. I grew up with the Dewey decimal card file system at the library and the World Book Encyclopedia (which in now worldbookonline.com). Now I press a button on my phone and ask "What is the population of Cuba?" or "How many electrons are in an Iridium atom?"

This will probably all work itself out but you know that if this site were started today by the current crop of young ww's it would be more mobile friendly. It's a matter of staying relevant. I want them to come to this site and learn from the people here, not go to some other site.

Case in point…I was amazed that my youngest son who just graduated from college had never heard of John Glenn and his older brother who just graduated from Georgetown Law had only heard of him because he interned at NASA 2 yeas ago.

The world is always in flux, which the OP is trying to tell us. HE uses a mobile device! That number is only going to go up.

I don't know that a major overhaul is due NOW but to stay current and continue to attract new members it eventually needs to happen and I'm sure it will.

P.S. I love this site and want it to stay relevant and would have no problem making a yearly donation.

 

This reminds me of the kid at one of the well known electronics stores. He said we were going away from keyboards. I laughed. Like I told him, people in the real world, who create the pages complained of, who write books and form documents know that's bunk.

It's a safe bet you'll not find a code writer writing a few million lines of code using a smart phone. Too, if I were writing a forty page legal document, I sure wouldn't want to deal with the new version of carpel tunnel touching a screen all day long would cause. Nor would I want to try using a voice system. That would go something like:

"Go to page, twenty-eight, paragraph four, line seven, start cut, ten spaces, end cut. Go to page three, paragraph two, line one, character six, paste."

And on it goes.

Desktops have their place and will for a long time yet and will beat out a smart phone or touch screen for the reason said in the foreseeable future.

Use a computer instead of a damn telephone and the site works just fine!

- papadan
The world is moving away from the Desktop computer rapidly. Some articles say desktop could be obsolete the a couple years.

This site (if it intends to say in business) will be forced to update this site in the not s near future to surive. You old fogies like you better get with the program or you may be left behind.

- AlaskaGuy

 

This reminds me of the kid at one of the well known electronics stores. He said we were going away from keyboards. I laughed. Like I told him, people in the real world, who create the pages complained of, who write books and form documents know that s bunk.

It s a safe bet you ll not find a code writer writing a few million lines of code using a smart phone. Too, if I were writing a forty page legal document, I sure would want to deal with the new version of carpel tunnel touching a screen, or trying to use a voice system. That would go something like:

"Go to page, twenty-eight, paragraph four, line seven, start cut, ten spaces, end cut. Go to page three, paragraph two, line one, character six, past."

And on it goes.

Desktops have their place and will for a long time yet.

Use a computer instead of a damn telephone and the site works just fine!

- papadan
The world is moving away from the Desktop computer rapidly. Some articles say desktop could be obsolete the a couple years.

This site (if it intends to say in business) will be forced to update this site in the not s near future to surive. You old fogies like you better get with the program or you may be left behind.

- AlaskaGuy

- Kelly

That may be true but we are not writing code and that "kid" is the future of our hobby and thus this site. Also the size of the screen has nothing to do with it being a desktop or not. A desktop is a piece of hardware that is quickly becoming obsolete like cd's have become. Code writing now recognizes speech patterns. This is not about the future of the desktop. It's about the future of the site which we all agree that we love. Advertisers have options these days. We need to give them a reason to advertise here. Relevance and a GROWING user base are major considerations. Us old guys are not going to grow the site through membership but its up to us to ensure that the site grows.

All this being said, I can't say how thankful I am to the folks that run and maintain the site in it's current form.

 

Desktop OS are not becoming obsolete, mobile and desktop are merging. People want their mobile to be an extension of the desktop.

 

Why are you even writing this? The quote made clear the post was in response to the ludicrous claim "the world is moving away from desktops"? It is not. Instead, it is adding other options to be used when practical.

You, apparently missed the facts in my statement - no sane person wants to write code on a phone, which includes writing web pages. They do not want to write books and other legal documents, at least in the final drafts, using a voice recognition program.

If you think the foregoing not true, drop in on a law firm and see how many clerks and paralegals are working on smart phones. Next, do the same with a few other professions. Finally, go do some web graphics and tell me how that works out.

This is your thread, but you neglected to tell us how and when to answer you and others on it, until after the fact. Of course, doing so could result in some interesting responses.

PS I did my first repair on a computer back around 72, while working for the feds. I wrote my first line of code about ten years later. Before I retired, a few years ago, I wrote many procedures and other documents. So, I have an inkling of the things about which I speak. I still do a lot of writing and can guarantee you, voice programs don't cut it, for the reasons stated.

Hint: Nowhere in my post did I say smartphones are worthless or that the FREE site should not accommodate them, just as web pages had to be tweaked to display properly on Internet Explorer, Firefox, Opra and son on. They have their place, but their only plus over a desktop is portability. In all other matters, I'm hard pressed to think of how they could be better, unless you can't afford the room for a screen adequate to display fine details.

That may be true but we are not writing code. Also the size of the screen has nothing to do with it being a desktop or not. A desktop os a piece of hardware that is quickly becoming obsolete like cd s have become. Code writing now recognizes speech patterns. This is not about the future of the desktop. It s about the future of the site.

- Andybb

 

I have to agree with the need to update… although I'm clueless about what that entails. That said… I find myself doing facebook groups and/or instagram much more because… well it's just easier. This is a great place…but it's kind of hard to communicate… show pictures… and such.

 

Thanks for all the input guys. This has really highlighted a lot of likes and dislikes and opinions of the members here. As well as some technical issues I had not considered. (And I remembered to take some panoramic pictures of my latest project

I hope the owners see this thread. I won't bring it up again. We all agree that the desktop version is pretty great. And even with older technology the site and talent here are awesome.

Hopefully they build on that strong foundation. Hopefully the mobile side of LJ gets better. I definitely like to SEE who is posting, and I'm not sure vbulletin allows avatars. I also hate the pas$worD% limitations most sites employ. Good call.

I work for big business and I know this won't happen overnight, or even within 6 months. Or even within 12 months, especially if it's complex. It will take time and money and programming, which isn't cheap. So I'll be sitting here patiently.

Thanks for your input and lively discussion. Any other changes/upgrades/mobile issues that need addressed should probably be posted here for reference.

 

shear size of the data on this site, it would be a big job to transition to a better platform.

- CharlesA

The size of data does not matter. Whether forums, blogs , reviews etc has one topic each or million topics makes no different to the complexity of the code.

 

I should have used a word like scope or the like

shear size of the data on this site, it would be a big job to transition to a better platform.

- CharlesA

The size of data does not matter. Whether forums, blogs , reviews etc has one topic each or million topics makes no different to the complexity of the code.

- Carloz

 

This has been a very informative topic and I am learning a lot. Yes the smart phone and You Tube; and updating this site are relevant. So I ask, without knowing, what are the demographics of this site. Even if the site went on to implement your suggested changes would Generation Z become interested? I don't have a crystal ball, but by being in the classroom, I have seen that woodshop's are becoming fewer and fewer. They are now teaching STEM curriculum with robotics. Therefore, we need to reach out to those of this generation and encourage and inspire them, when they show interests in woodworking, for example the Fidget spinner. Recently, on LJ myself and a few others posted our spinners. What brought hope to me, if your read the posts- "I am building this with my grandson…" And I say "plant the seed and God will harvest"
As an aside- Wood Whisperer posted a vid regarding reading woodworking books.

Also, Gorge Orwell, "1984" book of the future stated " In the future there would be no books to read" Desert says. "The children have books but they do not like reading"
Keep an open mind-
Ps- is there anyone out there who remember reading Tage Frid, in Fine Woodworking mag?

 

Matt- If Cricket doesn't close this , then I would bet that it keeps going. This for me has been a very inspirational post.
Thanks for starting-

 

Maybe if we keep bringing it up they'll actually do something about it eventually. It took a year and a half, even after I gave them the exact fix they eventually implemented to fix the issue where the images now shrink down to fit rather than be cut off when people post oversized images lol

And it doesn't have to be a complete overhaul to work for mobile. It can just be style updates to make it more usable or just look better on mobile. There are times that I'd like to check some stuff from my phone, but it's just too much of a PITA that I generally don't. I typically use my desktop or tablet.

And no, viewing it on a tablet and saying it works just fine does not mean that it will work fine on a phone. It does work fine on my tablet, but looks like garbage on my phone. I'm not hating on the site, I actually do like the interface and layout for desktop, I just find it clunky, buggy, and frustrating to use on mobile. Especially if you don't have a browser with adblock…

This subject comes up every so often, and each time it does Cricket likes to say that "Actually our website is optimized for mobile, it gets good scores on google". Which is true, but google hardly does any checking or scoring anything to do with aesthetic or usability… mostly just some HTML tags.

 

Thanks Matt. This is awesome! Hopefully everyone realizes the importance and relevance of this thread. It is awesome because the techie woodworkers are chiming in. I hope some of you guys now have a different idea of how diverse our members are. It just proves that there are young woodworkers on the site! They are versed in HTML, coding, platforms, etc.

Not only are there guys who have made their own rightful personal choice to not use a smart phone or even power tools, but guys who write code!! They are the ones who will be helping to develop and improve the technical aspect of the site by volunteering their time or at least their expertise while learning from some incredible craftsmen/women.

That "kid" at Best Buy my be a geek but he may also carve wood like michelangelo in his spare time. He's the guy who's gonna write a great tutorial for this site to tell you how to program that $5K digitized CNC machine you just bought because he wrote the code!!

The "old guys" who are the repository of information are what makes this site great but if this becomes only an old guys site there won't be a site because there won't be any advertisers because we already have our tools. The kids of the baby boomers are their target market and that's where they'll place their ads. Ask Festool who their target market is. You only need to look at youtube to see the ages of the people that the tool manufacturers sponsor. If you're talking about desktops vs mobile devices you're missing the point IMHO.

Imagine the wealth of accumulated knowledge this site will have in 10 years. I don't want to lose that.

David, who doesn't appear to be a kid from his avatar picture, kind of sums it up.

I have to agree with the need to update… although I m clueless about what that entails. That said… I find myself doing facebook groups and/or instagram much more because… well it s just easier. This is a great place…but it s kind of hard to communicate… show pictures… and such.

- David

P.S. I'm over 60.

 

Note, not everyone who uses the internet is an "old guy" (baby boomer) or "young guy" (millennial ^). I'm in that in between generation people seem to forget about, the one that grew up without the internet but isn't afraid of technology and the one that invented a lot of what we use now. Mobile is the future. Pining away about your corded rotary dial phones is fine but Boomers are no longer ruling the world. Get onboard or get left at the station. LJ has come a long ways in the last few years as far as mobile friendliness, there was a time it was literally unusable; now it's mildly aggravating. But it still has a ways to go and a large part of me doubts it will ever get there. I posted about the IMDB forums shutting down, one of the largest and oldest forums on the internet went away because they said it was too costly to make the necessary upgrades and social media is the future.

^Millennial is a generation made up by marketing people to try and lump several diverse groups into one mega marketing group. Older Millennials (back when it was called Y gen) have little in common with later millennials and they really should be considered 2 or 3 distinct groups. I think Y gen has more in common with X gen than with younger millennials. /rant

Ps- is there anyone out there who remember reading Tage Frid, in Fine Woodworking mag?
- Desert_Woodworker

Yes, his books and articles taught me much of what I know.

 

I use desktop exclusively because I am losing my eyesight and can't see the words on my cellphone. I am all for making the site work well on ALL forms of communication, as long as it is not biased toward any one form in particular.
ps, THIS IS the only woodworking site that I visit. I was pretty much a hermit until my wife turned me on to the site. Now, I have a host of woodworking friends all over the world. What other site can offer you the world in such a manner at the same price?

 

For the record, I contacted the site owners (I think) through the Contact Us form. I mentioned this post so hopefully they see it and take action.

This is after my latest project uploaded upside down, from an iPad, using pictures taken from an iPhone, in panoramic view which was recommended here.

You can see it here http://169.46.96.71/projects/317521.

The annoying thing is, well, all of it. But the thumbnail shows up properly when I "choose file." It's right side up. But then I click upload and it flips.

If the pictures appear right side up in the link above, then somebody from the "contact us" page fixed them. This was my reason for contacting them. I'm not going to rotate pictures myself at the moment and try to upload upside down pictures. That's treating the symptom.

This website needs some modern science.

 

Ah yes, Tage Frid, the man restaurant furniture supplies should have paid attention to. Three legged stools and tables don't rock, even on uneven ground.

 

I just looked at the recent projects page and three of the last 100 had pictures turned the wrong way. It seems a majority of people posting pictures figured it out.

Yes, perhaps a pain for a few but most get it right. Maybe a little experimenting by the 3% would get their pictures right.

 

Matt, I agree that the site should be updated for mobile, that being said, you did, in fact sound like a dick the way you presented it. I don't know if this is a millenial thing or not, but you should consider not just the message, but how it is presented. This is a great site and I would prefer it to stay the way it is if it mean IT STAYS. You harping that changes are needed NOW doesn't mean a darn thing. I still look at LJ on my desktop, my laptop and on my Surface Pro 4 just fine. I'm in no hurry.

 

Every few months or so, someone starts a topic similar to this one.

For those who mentioned vBulletin, several of the sites I work with do use vBulletin, such as WoodworkingTalk.com and RouterFroums.com. In fact we had our team take a hard look at moving LumberJocks to a vBulletin platforum, but it is not nearly as simple as many might think and there were simply too many roadblocks to converting many of the special features of this site, at this time.

We did (in the past) make as many changes as possible for those who access the site via mobile devices. It currently passes the Google mobile-friendly test. It is not perfect, but it is 100 times better than it used to be.

At some point, we may look at this again, but it won't be now.

 

Thank you…Cricket

 

This website needs some modern science.

- Matt Hegedus

I don't know about Apple products but I've done a number of tests with Android and can't find a problem with the way the website handles pictures.

 

This website needs some modern science.

- Matt Hegedus

I don t know about Apple products but I ve done a number of tests with Android and can t find a problem with the way the website handles pictures.

- Rick M

You need to go beyond testing Android and start testing people…....

 

LOL

 

My input is :

1. It would be really nice to indicate who the OP was in the thread. Other forums like Sawmill do this.
2. Mouse over preview of post. Again, other forums have this feature.