Hi, I have a business carpentry and joinery in South Texas, I am dedicated to making kitchen cabinets for hotels and apartments, recently asked me to do a job of making 50 kitchens, apartments in Austin Texas, and another project in the city of Dallas Texas, but I'd like someone to support me with prices that are handled in those cities, as the price that we carry in the Valley of Texas, seems very different.
Rogermag
What does "support me with prices mean"?
You don't give much information, be more specific with your questions.
Are they asking for a bid?
You don't give much information, be more specific with your questions.
Are they asking for a bid?
Yes they are asking for a bid, and I need the prices for that cities, if is for linear foot or something, here in the valley is cheapest
Thank you
Thank you
I guess my first thought is that if you are going to build them you should know what they cost then add the transportation to Austin and Dallas.
Factor in the travel time and hotels etc, if you will do the install work for 50 kitchens.
If you are supplying cabinets - there is a lot of competition.
Especially if they are going into rental units, as most contractors arent going to go with custom cabinets ($$) in a 50 unit apartment building.
Factor in the travel time and hotels etc, if you will do the install work for 50 kitchens.
If you are supplying cabinets - there is a lot of competition.
Especially if they are going into rental units, as most contractors arent going to go with custom cabinets ($$) in a 50 unit apartment building.
340.00 Lf
With out install.
Now this is pricing in No Cal.
[ ] Ext Wood: Paint Grade
[ ] Door Style: Shaker
[ ] Cabinet Const: FACE FRAME
[ ] Overlay: 1" Spacing
[ ] Hinge Type: Soft Close
[ ] Pulls: Not Included
[ ] Int. Material: PF Plywood
[ ] Drawer Face: Solid
[ ] Drawer : Dowel Ply Soft Close
[ ] Finished Ends: Flat
[ ] Finish: Paint
[ ] Bullnose: 1/8''
[ ] Installation: NIC
Sales Person: Rick Bailey
Date: 2/9/2015
With out install.
Now this is pricing in No Cal.
[ ] Ext Wood: Paint Grade
[ ] Door Style: Shaker
[ ] Cabinet Const: FACE FRAME
[ ] Overlay: 1" Spacing
[ ] Hinge Type: Soft Close
[ ] Pulls: Not Included
[ ] Int. Material: PF Plywood
[ ] Drawer Face: Solid
[ ] Drawer : Dowel Ply Soft Close
[ ] Finished Ends: Flat
[ ] Finish: Paint
[ ] Bullnose: 1/8''
[ ] Installation: NIC
Sales Person: Rick Bailey
Date: 2/9/2015
One more cuestion, the price you are telling me is for volume? For the 50 apartments? Or should I give a lower price?
Of all the long sentences I have read, that is one of them. Your inventory of periods and paragraph breaks is running low. Not good for business.
To cut to the chase, If you need to come on here and ask us to price your work without looking at any type of specks or knowing the market in your area I would not take the job. I see to many red flags already. Sounds like you're going to lose money. How much experience do you have in the commercial cabinet industry?
I agree with all of the above with one more addition. Do you have the space to build and store that big of an inventory. You not only need space to store your raw materials but space to keep you cabinets until you deliver/install them. If you are installing at the same time you are building them who is in the shop and who is in the field. Sounds like a losing battle, one that I would likely walk away from. You have to remember that owners/investors want a quick turn around and the next question is "can you make their deadline. Lots of things to think about before you even submit a quote.
Seems kind of odd to me that a professional cabinetmaker signs up on a woodworking site just to ask how to price cabinets. Someone else's price is not your price. Someone else may have different tools, construction methods, overhead/material costs, and profit margin. If you're seriously asking these questions I think you need to take a step back and take a good look at how you price your items. It does not sound like you have a very detailed pricing structure.
I +1 this with no hate-throwing intended.
If I have a CNC saw that I just plug digits into and it cuts the wood quite quick or if I have a Crapsman with a piece of oak and 2 C-Clamps for a fence, production will differ a bit.
Is it a production shop? Do you have the labor? If you expect to hire the labor IF you get the contract you are already lost. From my time int he shop and my time on LJ, it seems that labor is hard to come by. Good labor is like hens teeth and frog hair. You may be the mentor for Norm but if you dont have labor and good labor you are lost and out of money from the get-go.
I would suggest starting in local residential cabinetry and after a few hard years of money making, making sure you know how much it costs to make even the smallest thing in the shop, then entertain commercial, large production projects.
In summary: Run, dont walk, away from this until you know you.
If I have a CNC saw that I just plug digits into and it cuts the wood quite quick or if I have a Crapsman with a piece of oak and 2 C-Clamps for a fence, production will differ a bit.
Is it a production shop? Do you have the labor? If you expect to hire the labor IF you get the contract you are already lost. From my time int he shop and my time on LJ, it seems that labor is hard to come by. Good labor is like hens teeth and frog hair. You may be the mentor for Norm but if you dont have labor and good labor you are lost and out of money from the get-go.
I would suggest starting in local residential cabinetry and after a few hard years of money making, making sure you know how much it costs to make even the smallest thing in the shop, then entertain commercial, large production projects.
In summary: Run, dont walk, away from this until you know you.
I think most of you have missed it.
He may or may not be able to produce the work.
He is smart enough to know pricing differs in different parts of the world.
The method/tools for producing the work doesn't have an impact on how much you can charge, only on how much work one shop would do compared to another.
The shop with the fancy CNC is not going to charge any less. They may make a better profit margin and may be able to negotiate lower pricing if they have to, but it's all about Market Price. Maybe his prices are cheaper than in the city he wants to do the work and he doesn't want to leave any money on the table. You have to be able to determine if you can do the work at market price and make a profit or not no matter what tools you have.
I can't help with pricing, but last time I quoted some apartments they wanted to pay less than 1000 bucks per unit.
As far as quantity pricing, you have to look at the overall job as 1 big job, not 50 units.
Good Luck,
Don't let the hobbyist crap on your dreams.
He may or may not be able to produce the work.
He is smart enough to know pricing differs in different parts of the world.
The method/tools for producing the work doesn't have an impact on how much you can charge, only on how much work one shop would do compared to another.
The shop with the fancy CNC is not going to charge any less. They may make a better profit margin and may be able to negotiate lower pricing if they have to, but it's all about Market Price. Maybe his prices are cheaper than in the city he wants to do the work and he doesn't want to leave any money on the table. You have to be able to determine if you can do the work at market price and make a profit or not no matter what tools you have.
I can't help with pricing, but last time I quoted some apartments they wanted to pay less than 1000 bucks per unit.
As far as quantity pricing, you have to look at the overall job as 1 big job, not 50 units.
Good Luck,
Don't let the hobbyist crap on your dreams.
It might not make an impact on what he can charge, but it certainly makes in impact on whether or not he can make a profit, or lose big.
Us hobbyist are not crapping on his dreams, but it seems that relying on an internet forum to give you your number is not a recipe for success :
Have you ever bid on an apartment job.
Or let me rephrase it, how big is the biggest job you have ever bid or did.
I would expect he knows what his abilities are.
I give him credit for researching. Just because he came here doesn't mean he is going to price the job as he is told here, but it could give him more education for his travels.
Or let me rephrase it, how big is the biggest job you have ever bid or did.
I would expect he knows what his abilities are.
I give him credit for researching. Just because he came here doesn't mean he is going to price the job as he is told here, but it could give him more education for his travels.
I've never bid a single job. As you said before, I am a hobbyist. I don't believe it takes years in the industry to figure out that asking a question on pricing without giving specifics of construction, labor, or current capabilities is not going to yield extremely applicable results.
I have to agree with you Ed. My CNC comparison has to do with time. If I can cut one unit of cabinets in an hour on CNC vs a day on a old saw I have the cards on my favor. I do see it as relevant to question if he has a production set-up and good labor. Maybe all he wants is the going per Ln Ft price for commercial cabinets in a region, but if he can not produce (supply) the cabinets in a reasonable time he will not make money and may be in court over it.
Reminds me of a cabinet maker who took a huge job from a lawyer. The lawyer had a late clause in the contract. If the job was not done by X date then Y% would drop off the total. This would happen until Y% = $0. At that point the Y% would start to accumulate and would have to be paid to the lawyer. So this is what happened. The lawyer wrote the down-stroke check (50% of X). The cabinet maker used the down-stroke check to finish other jobs and pay labor. [tick, tick, tick-thats the clock] then he gets to the point where he wont get the other 50%. Then he gets to the point where he is repaying the Down-Stroke 50%. Then he gets to the point where he OWES money to the lawyer. [bang-thats the sound of the shop doors closing in the middle of the night as the cabinet maker is leaves town].
All that to say: Be careful.
Reminds me of a cabinet maker who took a huge job from a lawyer. The lawyer had a late clause in the contract. If the job was not done by X date then Y% would drop off the total. This would happen until Y% = $0. At that point the Y% would start to accumulate and would have to be paid to the lawyer. So this is what happened. The lawyer wrote the down-stroke check (50% of X). The cabinet maker used the down-stroke check to finish other jobs and pay labor. [tick, tick, tick-thats the clock] then he gets to the point where he wont get the other 50%. Then he gets to the point where he is repaying the Down-Stroke 50%. Then he gets to the point where he OWES money to the lawyer. [bang-thats the sound of the shop doors closing in the middle of the night as the cabinet maker is leaves town].
All that to say: Be careful.
"I've never bid a single job. As you said before, I am a hobbyist."
Then you have no idea what it is like to be presented with this kind of an opportunity.
25 years ago I was in the same boat when I was asked to bid some apartments. I was green, and it was scary, but it was also an opportunity that If I handled it could turn my business into something.
He may not sound like he has all the experience, and None of us have Any idea of his shop, tools, employees or capabilities. At least he is asking questions and he probably won't get the job, but to get that kind of experience you have to get your feet wet by starting somewhere. I applaud him for that, instead of beating him down with negatives.
He didn't get to the point of being asked to bid a job like that by making cutting boards. I give him a little more credit than has been given to him.
Then you have no idea what it is like to be presented with this kind of an opportunity.
25 years ago I was in the same boat when I was asked to bid some apartments. I was green, and it was scary, but it was also an opportunity that If I handled it could turn my business into something.
He may not sound like he has all the experience, and None of us have Any idea of his shop, tools, employees or capabilities. At least he is asking questions and he probably won't get the job, but to get that kind of experience you have to get your feet wet by starting somewhere. I applaud him for that, instead of beating him down with negatives.
He didn't get to the point of being asked to bid a job like that by making cutting boards. I give him a little more credit than has been given to him.
I agree, but who says he hasn't taken any of those things into consideration?
The man is already in business building kitchens, I give him enough credit to know what he is doing.
I see nothing wrong with trying to figure out lin ft price (going rate) for another county. I don't think I read where he asked what it takes to run his business. Sounds like he is getting more unsolicited advise than answers to his question.
Understood, but the lagniappe is usually something that is offered here. If all he got was "Going rate for that place is $100 a Ln Ft" I think that is a disservice. So what if he gets a bit of a heads up on things to consider. For example: I wouldnt mind someone with a head for the legal aspect to weigh in if I was pricing somewhere that has a different legal system where contract law is concerned. I may not ask for it but I may not know I need to or havent thought about it either.
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