For me it puts the fun back into woodworking. Some of the pieces I make need repetitive cut parts. It's no great skill of mine to cut hundreds of these little pieces, and while I can cut them for less money than I can pay a CNC to do it, I'd much rather be working on more creative endeavours than making the same thing over and over again. I still do the assembling, and the designing is all mine as well, but personally I'm happy to have the parts done by someone (or something?) else.

 

i think you might want to distinguish between production woodworkers and hobby woodworkers (even though you'll still end up with disagreement). If someone like Dabcan wants to use a CNC that way, fine. For someone like me, it seems like a big expense that would allow me to produce wood pieces without woodworking, so to speak. No incentive.

 

@CharlesA, I made no distinction between Production or Hobbyist as I know some people that do production work take pride is using only Hand Tools (i.e., they won't even use a table saw). I make no judgements, just curious as to opinions out there. -this is not a formal study or something that will go beyond this LJ forum

 

I have thought about getting one, for carving panels, etc. Making interesting designs to integrate into my woodworking.

I don't think it would take away from the craft as it's something I just don't have the skill to do anyways. I also don't have the time to do some of the panel carvings like I have seen done on here.

To me, it's just another tool in the kit to help me make what I want.

 

I do the CNC thing all day long at work. I'm an Instructor that teaches Tool & Die. I have full access to metal working CNC machinery and we also have a CNC router in the building trades program that I sometimes have done some CAD & programming on.

That being said at night I use my non CNC tools. That's my unwind time. Do my wood projects look as good as my metal things…...nope but I'm not trying to hold things in machinist tenths or millionths either.

That being said, I have used some of the machinery to make tools that I have used on my traditional woodworking tools. It may be a fixture or a gage. Notice I didn't say jig. Jigs are never bolted down, but are used to guide a drill, tap, reamer…...so on.

 

Will I guess that would depend on whether you think playing with a CNC is fun or not.

For me it is….

But for a lot of people it isn't… either because they're not into CAD/CAM and computers, or because they do it all day long at work and don't want to bring it into their hobby time.

I program for CNCs at work, but infreqently, so I still enjoy it.

Using a 4th axis machine to turn fancy Corinthian columns is on my bucket list.

 

I think we can take a look at history for the answer to this one…

I know there are a good number of LJ who are "hand tool only"...but are there any of you here who are "seasoned" enough to have been around when power tools first made the scene in woodworking? I rather doubt it. That choice, between all hand tools vs. hybrid vs. "I only use a chisel for opening new cans of wipe-on poly"... has been made by pretty much all of us. In fact, I would bet a lot of you have changed your mind about it at least once and maybe several times along the way.

My only point here is that the introduction of power tools into this realm DID NOT spell the end of it as either a hobby or a master-craftsman profession.

I think CNC is a very similar "upheaval" in the space. I think over time many of us will try our hand at it, and either decide we don't like it, decide it can be just another arrow in our quiver, or decide it provides the one true path we've been searching for to realize some aspect of our creativity.

I rather think 10 years from now a CNC will be about as common as a tablesaw in the average wood shop. For some it will be "over there in the corner next to the scroll saw and the biscuit jointer I never use", and for others it will be a centerpiece they can't do without (just like a tablesaw is today).

 

Funny timing for the topic. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on one early next year. I see it as just another tool. It takes skill to put it to proper use, and that is a art unto itself. This sounds like the old argument about screws in furniture.

 

I had the shapeoko 2 hobby cnc, like the idea and what I thought I could do with it but the software side of it was difficult and I didn't want to spend money on expensive software that probably would have been easier to learn on maybe. So it sat and collected dust until I sold it recently. I do like the idea of it in some aspects though. If i had a nice one and actually knew how to use it, could batch out small stuff like Christmas ornaments like in the shapes of states and probably sell them pretty easily, a lot easier than doing them by hand to make them cheaper to sell. People always send me pics of stuff I should make, then I realize it's stuff that is batched out on a cnc or something that's been laser engraved onto a piece of wood. Usually tell them wish I could, but the items are always for sale by a company that can sell them cheap because of those tools and being able to mass produce. Now if cnc machine were able to produce tables and chairs or other really nice stuff people make on here, then that would be cheating haha.

 

A CNC can be just another tool. And often not the best tool for the job.

Or it can be a hobby all by itself. Small hobby machines like a Shapeoko tend to lean this way, as they don't have the capacity to really augment a woodworking shop, unless your shop is dedicated to making small items.

I rather think 10 years from now a CNC will be about as common as a tablesaw in the average wood shop.

I've already been using a CNC router for 20 years. They're not new, they're just becoming more affordable.

As for taking the "craft" out of woodworking? Actually, it can add a little more. It's another skill set that the user needs to master to really take advantage of.

Too many people look at a CNC as a machine that spits out whatever you want with the push of a button. In a lot of cases, that couldn't be further from the truth.

 

How do you do production woodworking with hand tools only in this day and age? I mean it might technically be "production" but come on.

 

Craft - yes. Fun - absolutely not.

Probably a necessity for a production shop. No one expects a label "hand crafted". If a hobbyist is using one because he doesn't want to spend the time doing the work by hand, then I think that's sad because the skills will become rusty and decline.

He must have difficulty looking at a piece and having the sense of reward in personal craftsmanship of the piece. It doesn't matter if it's all hand tools or machine. At least a human is controlling the process.

I think the answer becomes much more obvious with carving. You simply cannot say "I made that" when all the human error is eliminated because a machine made the cuts. Anybody with a CNC machine can make that carving, but only a few can do it with human skills. When I see videos of guys proudly showing a carving "they" did with a CNC machine, I shake my head.

To each his own. Personally I would much rather learn to carve by hand than program a computer!

When the admirer says, "Wow, you really made that?" what can your honest answer be?

 

One day I hope to grow my woodworking to be enough of a business that it will be self supporting. What I sell will buy the next tool(s) on my list plus pay for projects I make for myself or as gifts. To this end a CNC (or laser or carver) is just a power tool like any other. I can't see myself splitting logs, hand planning surfaces flat, using a hand saw to resaw to thickness, etc. Now if someone wanted to pay enough then I might reconsider but my experience is that customers tend to be cheap.

The bigger question would be can a project that has been touched by a CNC (laser, carver) be called hand made?

 

My take on this. It is a tool…know when it makes sense to use it and when it does not. For example, my Yahtzee project I posted was milled with my CNC. I don't think I would have enjoyed doing it without my CNC.

I look at it this way. I know some very talented carvers. I am not one of them, however they are not engineers and I am. I used my engineering skills to build and program my CNC. That combined with my woodworking skills has been very fulfilling for me. I can't relief carve a deer by hand but I can do it with the CNC machine I built. To me that is very cool…

 

Just another tool in my book. I probably will never invest in one as my monies will go to those tools that increase the time and enjoyment of working the wood. So, if I lay my hands upon something I created, how can it not be "hand made"?

 

I will also say that I'm not offended if someone else has another opinion. This is a hobby for me and I am having fun. That is what counts for me. I sell a few items to support my hobby and my clients know what is done with my CNC. I don't label anything "handcrafted" unless I actually handcraft it.

 

I think the answer becomes much more obvious with carving. You simply cannot say "I made that" when all the human error is eliminated because a machine made the cuts. Anybody with a CNC machine can make that carving, but only a few can do it with human skills. When I see videos of guys proudly showing a carving "they" did with a CNC machine, I shake my head.

You're treating all carvings the same which is a disservice to some.
Your perception comes form the fact that at least 95% (imo) of the CNC carving that you see is done using purchased or "Stock" 3D models. Very few cnc hobbyists have the skill to create truly unique work, which gives non cnc users the idea that CNC is just pushing a button.

He must have difficulty looking at a piece and having the sense of reward in personal craftsmanship of the piece. It doesn t matter if it s all hand tools or machine. At least a human is controlling the process.

As I mentioned above, for some CNC users a human IS controlling the process, from start to finish.
In addition to design and computer work, there's a lot more involved with CNC than placing a board on it and pushing a button.
I've been doing it everyday for 20 years, and like any other woodworking, with CNC you're always learning. Whether it's learnign out to do things, easier, faster, or just better, it's not an automatic process.

 

It doesn't take the fun away. Anything my CNC can do I can do by hand if desired. However, it's much more fun to program the CNC, let it go to work and make money for me while I work on something else and make more money.

What do you get if there's a CNC operating, a laser engraver cutting and a highly-skilled furniture-maker working at the same time at full shop rate? I can't do that often but when it happens, I've got a large chunk of the overhead paid off in a single day of work. Woodworking is a lot more fun when you're not doing overtime just to pay the bills.

 

CNC is a tool like any other. It also requires hard-earned skill to be able to realize the potential of it, like any other tool. CNC machines, whether they be for metal work, wood work or any other type of work, are not sentient beings. They have no ideas nor any vision for what they wish to produce. The user must provide those things. The user must learn how to translate those things into finished product using the CNC as well. It's not as simple as load the material and push go. You have to create (or "borrow") the 3D model, translate that into a language the CNC can use. You also have to understand the material your working, the tooling being used, feed rates, spindle speeds, surface cutting rates, chip removal, work holding and numerous other things that are just part of the process.

Is carving with a CNC the same as carving by hand? Nope. Carving by hand requires a special kind of skill set and, at least IMHO, a God-given aptitude and talent than most people, myself included, simply do not posses. Carving via CNC requires an entirely different skill set. A set that anyone can acquire if they wish and are willing to learn it. It is a fantastic tool that opens up new possibilities for those who wish to use it. That being said, it is just that… a tool. And like any other tool, power or hand, it can only do what the user can direct it to do.

 

I don't own one and never used one. In some aspects I think it takes away from the craft, but in another sense it could add to a persons arsenal off tools. I think for the most part if you can afford one and the foot space for it, and you plan on producing a lot different parts on a large scale or you are making a lot personalized signs you would be better off with a cnc. if you are just a hobbyist and you don't do a lot then it is not worth it.

 

I can t relief carve a deer by hand but I can do it with the CNC machine I built. To me that is very cool…

- Todd

This is a contradictory statement.

 

You re treating all carvings the same which is a disservice to some.
Your perception comes form the fact that at least 95% (imo) of the CNC carving that you see is done using purchased or "Stock" 3D models. Very few cnc hobbyists have the skill to create truly unique work, which gives non cnc users the idea that CNC is just pushing a button.

No doubt design is part of craftsmanship, but until a carving tool is in the persons hand nothing will be created.
With CNC the machine is doing the physical work of the artist, not the human.
Sorry, but I believe my point remains valid.

As I mentioned above, for some CNC users a human IS controlling the process, from start to finish.
In addition to design and computer work, there s a lot more involved with CNC than placing a board on it and pushing a button.

How clearer can it be: the machine is doing the work, not the human!

You can say you designed it but you simply cannot say "I carved it" and be truthful about it.

 

Is carving with a CNC the same as carving by hand? Nope. Carving by hand requires a special kind of skill set and, at least IMHO, a God-given aptitude and talent than most people, myself included, simply do not posses. Carving via CNC requires an entirely different skill set. A set that anyone can acquire if they wish and are willing to learn it. It is a fantastic tool that opens up new possibilities for those who wish to use it. That being said, it is just that… a tool. And like any other tool, power or hand, it can only do what the user can direct it to do.
- HokieKen

Ken don't sell yourself short. If you're skilled enough to use a chisel you can carve!

If you ever do start carving I believe you'll view the CNC differently when guys say they carved something when they really didn't.

 

It depends if the feel of wood or the keyboard is most desirable. Not much different than the hand cut or jig cut dovetails debate ;-)

 

Is carving with a CNC the same as carving by hand? Nope. Carving by hand requires a special kind of skill set and, at least IMHO, a God-given aptitude and talent than most people, myself included, simply do not posses. Carving via CNC requires an entirely different skill set. A set that anyone can acquire if they wish and are willing to learn it. It is a fantastic tool that opens up new possibilities for those who wish to use it. That being said, it is just that… a tool. And like any other tool, power or hand, it can only do what the user can direct it to do.
- HokieKen
Ken don t sell yourself short. If you re skilled enough to use a chisel you can carve!

If you ever do start carving I believe you ll view the CNC differently when guys say they carved something when they really didn t.

- rwe2156

double post