You might want to consider this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-wet-6-inch-dry-grinder-35098.html

I bought one of these and rigged up some Tormek type sharpening jigs for the wet grinder and made a much larger tool rest for the high speed grinder. Works well. I really should take some photos of my rig and post them.

Planeman

 

Take a look here.

http://www.grizzly.com/search?q=(wet+OR+grinder)

 

I have both a grinder and a Tormek.I like a use both.The wheel on the Tormek is rusted tight on the shaft forgot to empty the water.The first wheel didn't rust on but I heard they make a stainless shaft to prevent the wheel rust problem.
I recommend the Tormek if you can afford it.

 

Around 200.00 from Grizzly and I'd like to think it produces a sharp edge like the more expensive tormek.

Grizzly offers an 8" around 90.00 USD.

 

Think the grinder operates MUCH faster than the Tormek and lacks the water bath leading to overheat (bad). Noted above is one of many outfits that sell the same basic idea at a much lower price. I got a pretty much new Tormek machine off of E-Bay years ago (with a pile of accessories) and can say that the techniques/tools are hardly "precision" instruments so I'm guessing the Grizz et al will work the same at a much lower price…Like many tools I think Tormek got fame because they got featured on Norm's show (he got his for free).

 

Thank you all for the suggestions and input.

I guess I should have left the make of the slow wet grinder out of the discussion and just focused it on comparing a grinder to a slow speed wet grinder with a bar that accepts Tormek jigs. The cheaper alternatives make the traditional grinder plus new wheels plus new base a even harder sell over a wet grinder that is purpose built for the role.

 

I have never used the Grizzly version of the Tormek.If it doesn't have the micro adjusters on the bars that hold the jigs that a problem.Things are already slow enough and the micro adjuster on the Tormek is a must.
The wheel of the Tormek also travels with very little side to side and up and down.
I remember when the Jet came out with one.And I thought the reviews were not good.Too flimsy.

 

Nothing against wet slow grinders, but as long as you're careful you can grind tool steel on a regular high speed grinder with no problems, even with the regular wheels that come with it. Especially if you're interested in hollow grinds - just stop the grinding very slightly before you get to the edge and then go to your stones. Dress the wheel often, use a light touch, dunk frequently in water. You'll need an aftermarket tool rest (I have and like the Veritas).

 

You didn't mention belt sanders. I built a 6×48 belt sander just so that I could make guides for sharpening my turning tools. I found it a lot easier than using the grinder and I like not having hollow grinds on my tools. You can see my sander and guides on my blog. One thing I like about the belt sander is that it is a multi purpose tool-more bang for the buck and shop space. If you already have a belt sander just make some sharpening guides for it and buy some belts for metal.

 

Another route to consider is, pillow blocks and a 3/4 horse DC motor. They come with controllers, are reversible and only run a hundred bucks. I just installed one in place of my 240 volt motor on my four wheel grinder and can now drop the thing to about three hundred RPM, or take it up to twenty-five hundred.

The foregoing aside, I use my one by forty-two inch belt for all my lathe knife sharpening. I've been running 220 grit belts and it just takes a second to touch up a knife.

I bought some six hundred grit belts, thinking they would take less material off, but they require more time with the knife on the belt, so heat more than the two twenties did.

 

I prefer a high-speed, 6" grinder with coarse, white, aluminum oxide wheels. With practice and a light touch the tools don't overheat. It's also much faster to use than a wet grinder.

 

I've always used a 6" bench grinder + hand honing.
Couple years ago I got a variable speed like it a lot.

I use a Veritas jig for chisels and irons.
Wolverine or homemade jigs for turning tool.

With the right wheels and like the previous poster ^^ said, you will be fine.

 

JAAune and rwe2156,

Do either of you ever use that grinder for anything other than sharpening? My dilemma is that by the time I buy the grinder, better wheels and new tool rest I might as well buy a wet grinder and get a tool custom designed for the task. I don't do much in the way of metal working and even if I did I'm not sure I would use those softer wheels designed for sharpening anyways.

Thanks,

Richard

 

JAAune and rwe2156,

Do either of you ever use that grinder for anything other than sharpening? My dilemma is that by the time I buy the grinder, better wheels and new tool rest I might as well buy a wet grinder and get a tool custom designed for the task. I don t do much in the way of metal working and even if I did I m not sure I would use those softer wheels designed for sharpening anyways.

Thanks,

Richard

- Richard H

I know you didn't pose this question me but don't forget that, depending upon which Tormek package you buy, some of the sharpening jigs are extras and are not cheap. So make sure you look at the total cost. I like the way the Sorby Pro-Edge system worked and sharpening on a flat surface using a belt rather than a curved stone makes sense to me. Your concern about using the tool for other things is exactly why I chose to use a belt sander for sharpening. I use the belt sander almost every day I am in my shop for one thing or another. My 2 cents.

Checkout Dutchy's blog for an example of an inexpensive DIY pro-edge sharpening system:
http://lumberjocks.com/Dutchy/blog/81458
You'll find a bunch of Youtube video on how the Sorby Pro-edge works. I found it much easier to use (learn?) than the standard bench grinder approach.

 

Often, it's difficult to believe life is wholly random.

Civilization is about an hour away. I had a single errand to do, so I made a list of other things to do, while there. Among the errands was, hit several cabinet shops and grovel for some scrap MDF from which I could make wheels, to experiment with for edge polishing projects.

As I was walking to my truck, from just being told they never use the stuff, and only deal in real wood, I noted a few items leaned against their dumpster. It was a 18" by 60" sheet of half inch MDF.

As mentioned, I swapped my 120/240 volt motor on my four wheel grinder for a 3/4 horse, variable speed, DC motor. The unit, a garage sale win, came with the controller and allows me to run from around 300 RPM up to 2,500 RPM, and to even reverse direction.

When using the polishing features, the option of reversing the wheel direction will be invaluable.

Though not applicable to the whole grinder thing, it was part of the same day, so I'll share the details of the last part of the day too.

The next town over, and the way back home, I was coming upon a Ranch and Home store. I, immediately, added one more thing to the list - trying to pick up more pine pitch. Horsey places carry it to treat wounds, since it's a natural antibiotic, and keeps the air and flies off wounds.

I'd just bought and used up a pint of it, which cost $19.99, in a mix with turpentine and boiled linseed oil, to treat garden tool handles and a few out door items. It repels water well, so I wanted more. As it turned out, they did have it, in the tack section, and it was $10.31 a quart, so nearly have the price for twice as much.

 

The Tormek will be much easier to use than freehand grinding on a bench grinder. As a machinist, I learned how to grind freehand. It takes practice, but once you master it, it becomes natural. I would advocate anyone who pursues woodworking or metalworking to learn the technique of freehand grinding. It is as much of a necessary skill as any other woodworking technique. The Tormek may be a great machine, but it takes away our ability to learn a skill. We have had sharp tools for thousands of years without Tormek or other sharpening devices.

Everyone today is in a rush; they want results without having to work for them. Learning a new skill gives satisfaction, not everyone has and one that you can be proud of.

 

On knife forums, there are always those who insist you can't be a real craftsman of knives unless you learn to free hand sharpen. Then they go on to ramble of muscle memory and such. While valid, I pointed out there are many, like us, who do more than play with knife blades.

One day we may find ourselves sharpening carving knives, the next kitchen knives. From there, we go to lathe knives and bench chisels. Then pops up the task of sharpening our chains and planer knives, before we get to the lawn mower and the ax, or lopping shears. Then comes the need for a touch up on a drill bit, or ten, a Forstner bit or two, five spade bits and, finally, that router bit, which fought a glue joint.

In short, it can be easy to call up the wrong memory.

This is not to say there isn't a lot of room for free hand, but my experience is, one degree is huge, when finding that edge that will allow you to go farther. For that reason, even when free handing, I set the table to the angle I'm shooting for, so I can, for example, roll my lathe knives, while maintaining it.

For my pocket knives, which have VG-10 or better steel, I use a jig and have no trouble shaving hairs of paper using just push cuts, which is unlikely from free hand sharpening. The only exception to my use of jigs with my fine blades is when doing light, touch up polishing.

 

The Tormek is a great sharpener but I would NOT recommend it for woodturning tools (too slow). I have a 8" Rikon slow speed grinder with CBN wheels (80 and 180 grit) with the Oneway Wolverine Sharpening Jig. This gives me very good sharp edge. To go to the next level you can hone the tool with a DMT diamond plate or get another grinder with 600/1000 grit CBN wheels.

 

I have several sharpeners, including a [super] slow grinder, a regular grinder, a four wheel grinder (reversible and variable speed) and one inch belt. The latter is my choice for lathe knives.

Recently, I bought some six hundred grit belts for the one inch, thinking they'd be easier on the knives. It takes more time to touch up things, and that results in burns. As such, I'm going back to two twenty belts and a second or two on them for my lathe knives.

Eventually, I'd like to add some CBN's for the four wheel puppy.

The other day, I made a bunch of wheels out of MDF and they work nice for fine edge details. Certainly, they do not burn anything. One is for Mother's Mag Polish, another has chromium oxide, another diamond paste, another…..

 

JAAune and rwe2156,

Do either of you ever use that grinder for anything other than sharpening? My dilemma is that by the time I buy the grinder, better wheels and new tool rest I might as well buy a wet grinder and get a tool custom designed for the task. I don t do much in the way of metal working and even if I did I m not sure I would use those softer wheels designed for sharpening anyways.

Thanks,

Richard

- Richard H

6" grinders are super common at auctions so they're easy and cheap to get. I only need one wheel suitable for cutting tools so the second wheel is a coarse gray wheel for hogging metal. I've made myself well over a dozen chisels and turning tools to date with that stone. Besides sharpening or tool-making, I'm often using it to deburr threaded rod or modify bolts and screws.

The tool rest isn't that great on mine but after making do with it for years, I can stay on the bevel by feel.

 

It has been four years since anyone has posted to this thread but I have a decision to make that is similar to the one the OP asked. What are the comparative advantages of a Tormek (T4) vs the Rikon? In either case I would buy CBN wheels. My primary goal is to speed up the process of flattening backs and re-honing the primary bevel on bench planes and chisels. Currently I do this with an extra corse diamond stone, which can take a very long time, or corse sandpaper on glass, which leaves a scratch pattern I don't like and seems a bit unreliable on flatness.

The Rikon, with two good 1 1/2 CBN wheels (80 & 350), and the Veritas tool rests is slightly cheaper than a Tormek, a 200 cbn wheel & straight edge guide, but perhaps not enough to to seal the deal. The Rikon would also be faster. I wonder what the differences add up to among, diamond stone, Tormek w CBN, and Rikon w CBN. Obviously the two wheels on the Rikon would also reduce hand honing.

The Tormek also has advantages. The integrated tool rest looks easier to set up and be more reliable. The Rikon, with any side mounted guides like the wolverine, kodiak, or veritas would need to be fastened either directly to a bench or a large platform and would take up a lot more shop space for the many weeks when it doesn't get turned on. The Tormek also has the possibility for being more versatile with non-woodwoking sharpening tasks.

I guess my biggest question centers around "slowness". How much longer would it take to reestablish a bevel on a Tormek with a 200 grit wheel, vs Rikon with an 80 grit wheel.

Michael

 

Tormek is not the best choice for quickly reestablishing a bevel. By design it is better suited for sharpening an existing bevel so could take a long time depending upon how much grinding needed to happen. I've never heard of using a CBN wheel on a Tormek. Also for reestablishing a bevel on the Rikon, I don't think that the CBN would be the best choice either. You usually want to remove a lot of material quickly and you don't want to waste the the CBN grit for that purpose. A friable, relatively coarse wheel or a belt sander would be a better option and then use the CBN wheel for final shaping and sharpening.

It seems to me that the gap between 80 and 350 wheels might be a little wide. It may take a while to grind out the 80 roughness if you don't use something in between first. 350 is more for touching up an edge that has already been sharpened and honed.

 

The Tormek does take a little bit longer but not much. I have both a Tormek and a delta grinder with a white wheel.
I like the Tormek the best i use mine for a much larger variety of sharpening takes. The delta bench grinder is for rough work lawn mower blades or hunks of metal that I don't mind over heating.
All my best chisels are Japanese so I don't hollow grind them. My plane blades are A2 and I do hollow grind them in the Tormek.

Good Luck

 

I do some carving and wanted a water stone wheel to sharpen and avoid overheating the blade. Tormek was more money than I wanted to put into it, so I ended up with a Chinese made unit that has served me very well for the past few years and it only cost me about $200. So look around.

 

I use two CBN's on my four wheel, variable speed, reversible grinder. I run the wheels about 350-500 RPM and they work great for sharpening lathe knives and other things I don't want to move material off of quickly, or to over heat.

If memory serves, the Tormex runs at a more common sense (lower) speed than all but a rare few grinders used for sharpening, so, if the CBN would fit the Tormex shaft, it should work just fine on it.

THE MAIN THING I look for in a grinder used for sharpening is, the ability to adjust the speed to as low as a couple hundred RPM, or up to a couple thousand RPM.

I would rather spend more getting there (lower/variable speed) than to settle for a machine that will never be quite good enough. It has paid in spades for both my stationary grinder and for my angle grinders. For example, because the latter can be slowed down, I use it as my granite router.

Tormek is not the best choice for quickly reestablishing a bevel. By design it is better suited for sharpening an existing bevel so could take a long time depending upon how much grinding needed to happen. I ve never heard of using a CBN wheel on a Tormek. Also for reestablishing a bevel on the Rikon, I don t think that the CBN would be the best choice either. You usually want to remove a lot of material quickly and you don t want to waste the the CBN grit for that purpose. A friable, relatively coarse wheel or a belt sander would be a better option and then use the CBN wheel for final shaping and sharpening.

It seems to me that the gap between 80 and 350 wheels might be a little wide. It may take a while to grind out the 80 roughness if you don t use something in between first. 350 is more for touching up an edge that has already been sharpened and honed.

- Lazyman