Again, I'll ask:

is there a visual test to determine Spruce vs. Pine vs. Fir on the 2x aisle?

 

Twenty five years ago I was a carpentry foreman on a house remodel, during the job, using 2×4's I built a pencil post bed that I still share with my beautiful wife!

 

opalko-Not sure I can tell the difference. I generally just avoid anything marked SPF … I have only seen SPF on 2×4, 2×6, and 2×8 stock. The kiln-dried 2×12 (which is what I prefer) is Douglas Fir at my local store. Their 2×10 stock is sometimes a mix of Douglas Fir and Hemlock Fir.

-Gerry

 

The kiln dried 2x material often has stamps on it and you can
sometimes take a guess from the stamp… usually in California
the boards are marked "DF" "Hem" for douglas fir, hemlock, and
so on. These woods are quite similar in working characteristics.

 

@The Dane…you're lucky to have a Menards. All I have in this catagory is BORG and Lowes :-(.

Once you sit down does your butt know whether it's pine or mahogany? I use both and never had any problems.

 

Douglas Fir (which, ironically, is neither a true fir, nor pine, nor spruce but is a distinct species of its own) has pronounced growth rings that, by the time it comes out of the kiln and makes it to the lumber rack at the big box is a brownish-grey. Douglas Fir is also moderately resistant to rot.

Hemlock Fir doesn't have the pronounced growth rings that Douglas Fir has, and oxidizes to a light tan.

In terms of strength, Hemlock Fir is only slightly less strong than Douglas Fir, and is less rot resistant.

-Gerry

 

All this being said, I am trying to get a dining table built in short order and my hardwood sources have dried up. I am very pressed for time and may have to consider a softwood "construction" grade material.

Would you use the same woodworking techniques - glued up (table) top, mortise & tenon apron/leg joinery with these type materials?

Thanks again.

 

Hey, man.

If it's wood, build something nice out of it, and post the pictures when you're done.

You seen some of the junk pallets that LumberJocks have turned into beautiful pieces ??

Go for it !!!

 

You can use it, but you have to fatten-up your joints and frame members.

I'd say as a rule of thumb where you could use 3/4" hardwood, you'd
want to go to 1" or thicker in softwood for all furniture parts. Even
table aprons should be thicker.

 

Loren is right … you can get away with 3/4" stock on some stuff (e.g. cabinet door frames), but it won't have the strength you get with thicker stock. That's why pieces built with construction grade lumber typically look bulkier … they are.

-Gerry

 

Okay I'll bite. I use / have used construction grade stock for furnishings. But then again, I tend toward a very rustic style anyway, the more tight knots the better it sometimes seems…

I can't say a word about Spruce because I wouldn't know it if it bit me in the (donkey). However, at least down here, Southern Yellow pine is well named as it has a very distinct yellow hue to it. The examples of fir I have seen are much whiter in color. Kiln drying versus green makes a LOT of difference when using for anything beyond framing a fence. And even then there is a bit of difference… Take your moisture meter, and ignore the stares of the kids working the lumber dept at the BORG… Get straight, dry lumber. If you have to spring extra for kiln dried, do it. You won't regret it.

I have used "construction grade" stock of the following types in my projects…

Southern Yellow Pine (it's what we have here).
Pressure treated pine. No clue what species.
Cedar.

PT and Cedar almost exclusively on outdoor projects…

If you can, get your stock as wide as possible, 2×10 or 2×12 would be best. Those seem to warp / twist less once you rip them. Like others have mentioned, be careful to seal the ends if you get wet stuff, they can split / end check pretty badly while air drying.

 

I have to ask…what the <bleep> is BORG? I see references all the time & I have no idea what you guys are talking about..

 

I think it's Big Old/Orange Retail Giant, or something like that.

Basically, Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, Orchard, etc.

 

Big
Orange
Retail
Giant

Used to be standing for Home Depot, but has now come to mean just about any big retail outlet like that.

 

You can make a lot of great stuff using it. It is somewhat soft.
You do need to have it acclimate to your shop - often once you pull it out of the stack some of it wants to become a bit bananna shaped. Coincidentally that is the reason we have carpenters yellow glues (including titebond) because the additives to the white glue are there to get good bonding with the wetter construction lumber that is more often in that 15% moisture range, compared to most hardwoods at the dealerships.

I have the cub scouts make picture frames using Kiln dried SPF that i rip down and rabbet for them but then turn them loose to mitre and pin the corners insert the plexiglass with 8×10 photo of Robert Baden Powell (founder of Bioy Scouts) along with the scout oath printed.

 

I have used construction grade stock a fair bit. I always resaw to square it up. Can't say I've ever had a real issue with it twisting on me when I have. I generally will use it when a) its going to get painted b) furniture more "utilitarian" than art.

I've even made a workbench top (butcher block style) out of resawn 2x. In this case I wanted the softer wood so as to minimize damage to the projects I am working on. the top is plenty hard/sturdy enough for some serious work yet less likely to make dings in the project.

As stated above - its just another medium/species. Use it for its properties just like any other wood.

I personnally wonder at those that automatically turn their nose up at it.

 

Well, I must admit, I made a guitar body out of cedar, and it was just too soft. Over the years, I've made other items out of construction grade, and as long as it is something that will not make a lot of human contact, OK, but otherwise it's just too soft for my tastes. Makes great sheds, though…

 

As Gerry said, the smaller stuff - especially the 2×4s have the most troublesome defects. The larger 2×10 and 2×12 stuff is usually more clear and easily worked.

Not that defects are necessarily bad, but too many can just make woodworking no fun anymore. most 2×4s I find in my local lowes are so hard to work due to twist and the many large knots.

 

re: BORG - thanks! I always thought it was a reference to a specific store that I didn't know about… (I tried a google search, but found only the bjorn borg has a tennis store….)