Have you run anything through it yet? I wouldn't think .005 over 8 inches would create a problem but it is a little weird to have each side at their max opposed to each other. Could the adjustment on the other end (feed end) be causing a problem? Like it's teetering on two high points kind of like every table I ever sit down at in a restaurant? ha!

 

I don't have the jointer but I assume those are eccentric bushings? Did you try removing the bushings and see if one of them is damaged or perhaps the the hole it sits in or shaft is? If not, you may have to adjust the outfeed to get everything aligned to the same plane. If when moving someone lifted it using the the infeed and/or outfeed tables, the alignment probably got messed up.

 

thanks guys

Smit - we haven't run anything yet simply because we haven't addressed the other end of the infeed at all so it'd be tough to guage where any issues that did surface actually came from

Lazy - yes, sorry, i should have noted they are eccentric - it's a parallelogram design. I did remove the bushings to make sure they seemed ok and clear out any gunk but it didn't do anything. I hadn't thought about the shaft though. It seems unlikely that it's bent but i suppose it's possible.

Keep me honest here guys but I'm thinking adjusting the outfeed table wont by itself solve the issue - I'll need to shim the cutterhead (byrd). Does that sound right/logical? I know the cutter head side of the outfeed table is well aligned to the cutterhead so aligning it to the infeed will pull it out of alignment with the cutterhead

I'm sure it was moved at least partially by the tables which got things all out of wack, but i wouldn't expect that to get them THIS out of wack. If I'm really being honest, there isn't a good way to move a jointer without applying some level of pressure to the tables at some point.

 

I've lifted a DJ-20 with a forklift, suspended by straps from the infeed / outfeed tables. When I got it home it was still coplanar within .002". These machines are bulletproof.

Having the Shelix will simplify setup for you. My biggest challenge was setting my straight knives level with the cutterhead… but you get to skip that step!

Sounds like you've taken all the right first steps. Try some dry lube in the eccentric cams. Don't assume anything about the outfeed table. Set all four corners to the height of the cutters. Set everything coplanar with a quality straightedge. Goal on a DJ-20 = coplanar to within .002" across a 36" span. Check with the straightedge diagonal as well as straight.

You should have plenty of eccentric cam travel to bring everything coplanar. Does the infeed table move up and down smoothly (as if you were making a depth of cut adjustment)?

 

Does the infeed table move up and down smoothly (as if you were making a depth of cut adjustment)?

Yup - no movement issues there
So you think we should work the outfeed table before monkeying with shimming the head?

 

 

yeah I've always done mine fairly similar to this process but, unfortunately, that's not working in this situation
I haven't found much of anything that covers notable realignment to outfeed tables (and I've never had to with my machine which may explain why the typical sources aren't producing how tos) or ever even heard of anyone having the issue we're encountering - let alone fixing it

 

With a jointer the main concern in getting the tables lined up is that the outfeed side be perfect. The in feed side is really ill relevant. It's good to get it as close to being dialed in coplaner as possible but being off .005 isn't really a problem. Remember the wood registers off the outfeed side and fence. Spend your time on that part and don't be too concerned about the in feed side.

With that being said, I would still be concerned with the machine as a whole as to why it is doing this. I would investigate to the best of your abilities but not stress over it too much.

The best thing you can do for a DJ-20 is upgrade to a spiral cutterhead. I personally am about to convert my Steelex ST1008 to have one. Right now I have the self set knife system and I must say that it has been great.

 

BTW the rule of thumb when setting of a jointer is to make sure that the outfeed is level first by using the body of the cutter head (not the knives) as a reference. You will have to lower the outfeed down to the level of the cutter head to do that. Once you are sure that the outfeed is level to the cutter head (you can set the knives later), then you can worry about getting the infeed table parallel to it. While a different jointer, at about 2:30 minutes into this Grizzly jointer video , they show the process.

One other thought, I don't suppose that the limit stops are what is preventing you from adjusting the cams further? Try backing off the jam nuts and back off the limit stops before making the adjustments. If that is not the problem and the cams truly are at their min and max and there are no other wear or structural issues, then it seems like it has to be that the outfeed must be set at a weird angle and needs to be adjusted too. You probably have no way of knowing if the guy that sold it messed everything up. Do the outfeed cam/bushings look like they are similarly at or near their extremes?

 

Avsmusic1 your probably going to have to use Deltas factory's alignment procedure.
It's different then grizzlys.
I do agree with a precision straight edge.

Good Luck

 

I've been using my taylor tools straight edge which claims .003 across 50"
We're diggin back in tomorrow morning and I think, as many have suggested, we'll start with the outfeed table. If that doesn't work, I guess we'll start shimming… (shrugs)

AJ2 - are you familiar with setup instructions that are unique to Delta? I didn't see anything in the manual and, given the grizzly is essentially a clone, i assumed the same approach should hold

 

I ve been using my taylor tools straight edge which claims .003 across 50"
We re diggin back in tomorrow morning and I think, as many have suggested, we ll start with the outfeed table. If that doesn t work, I guess we ll start shimming… (shrugs)

AJ2 - are you familiar with setup instructions that are unique to Delta? I didn t see anything in the manual and, given the grizzly is essentially a clone, i assumed the same approach should hold

- avsmusic1

Private message me a email and I'll send you the information.

 

Well we dug back in this morning and it's been a thoroughly frustrating day. He's what we did…

1. We aligned the outfeed to the cutterhead as perfect as my measuring devices will allow but the indeed was still very wonky.
2. Next we pulled the cutterhead and the pulley side was actually already shimmed so we pulled those out and tried the whole thing over just to see. No luck - it got worse.
3. So we re-shimmed it to a total of .01 and were still having issues with the far side of the infeed table. If we could get it w/in .005 we probably would have called it good enough for test cuts but couldn't even make that happen yet.
4. So we tried something a bit odd - shimming the bar/bracket contact point on the outter most side on the infeed table. After another 30min of trying various combinations of adjustments we got it w/in .002 of the 24" closest to the cutterhead. That was good enough for us and we tightened everything down snug as hell and got excited to run some test cuts

Then we went to set the height on the outfeed table and our bad luck struck again. With a height that will advance a straight edge 1/8" on the cutter closest to the operator, the cutter closest to the pulley advances it 3/8". I was freakin stunned. We obviously went back to quadruple check the outfeed alignment to the body of the cutter head - it's still w/in .0015 (including diagonal). So… I have to assume the indexing is wrong on the cutters of the Byrd head? I didn't think that can happen but can't think of any other explanation. We emailed Byrd and I'm throwing in the f'in towel for the day on this.

 

Oh shoot I didn't know your trying to do this with a bryd head that's really alot harder to do then straight knives.

Good Luck

 

Were/are the cutterhead shims under the bearing housings?

Did you measure some of the carbide inserts to see if possibly they replaced some of the carbide inserts with different sized inserts? Look at both the width and the thickness. There are some aftermarket inserts out there and maybe they used a different kind to replace some that were damaged?

 

The shins are under the metal black that holds the bearings so I'd assume that would lift the entire cutter body as it's suspended between those blocks

We haven't messed with any of the inserts yet as we were (a) out of time, and (b) pretty pissed off

 

Out of curiosity, has anyone here had issues w/ byrd cutters that weren't all on the same plane?

It seems suspicious to me that the same side that's shimmed is the side that the cutters are high on, but I checks the outfeed table to the cutter body twice

 

My buddy heard back from Byrd
They are suggesting the shims could be the issue. I'm not entirely clear how if the tables are coplaner to the cutterhead body, but I'm certainly no engineer.

The bigger issue w/ this guidance is it may put us back at square 1 with adjusting. Also, while our machine is certainly shimmed more than most, it's my understanding that shimming like this is not uncommon and that it the manufacturer did it at times. If that's true it seems odd that shimming would disrupt the geometry of the head

My buddy got the old cutterhead too so if we do need to remove the shims to make the Byrd work but that prevents us from being able to align the tables then we may have to try the old head. Alternatively, we could take it all apart again and try to ID if there are any parts that are the problem (maybe the rod that goes through the bearings?).

I'll keep u guys posted

 

Did you ever go back and measure some of the cutters to see if they are a consistent width and thickness?

I just went and looked at the Shelix for my planer and noticed that the milling on the cutter head body is rather crude so there really isn't a place where, on the planer Shelix at least, you could get a consistent reading for setting the outfeed level. The more I think about it, since unlike straight knife cutter heads the cutter height is not adjustable, you can just use the cutters themselves as the reference the point for getting the outfeed level, instead of the body. As long as the cutters are a consistent width and thickness, that should give you the best reference. That will also mean that the you can level and set the height of the outfeed all at once. After setting the height on 2 cutters, you can then check each cutter with a straight edge to see if any of them are higher or lower than the 2 reference cutters (and not have to take them off to measure each one). You might want to mark your reference cutters so you know where you started from in case one of them is actually the problem.

 

We haven't checked out the cutters yet unfortunately
I had the thought of leveling to the cutters themselves but found it very difficult to do given the angles of the cutters. Finding and holding the top most point on the cutter coupled with the top most point on the arc of the cutter head movement was kind of a pita

 

I'm thinking you should spend your time getting the tables coplane. Then shim the cutter head up on the lowest side.
Adding the fixed knife height really makes setup a pain in the ass.
Be sure your using a accurate straight edge. I believe a precision straight edge is best bet.
At least you have a machine that's adjustable.
I also don't think it's worth all the trouble having a insert head in a jointer.
M2 or T1 high speed steel is what I use. I hardly use any downward pressure to face boards even thin ones come out flat.
Good Luck
What state are you in Avs?

 

It's easiest to remove the belt while doing this process which makes it easier to hold the head in the right position. You can wedge a wad of paper or something between the head and the table to hold it in place.

 

I'm in CT. We'll dive back in over the weekend and I really appreciate the thoughts here as it gives us a few different options to approach.

As a final worst case option i suspect my buddy could sell this for what he paid for it even if completely upfront on the challenges. we really don't want to do that though