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Delta 36-725 Contractor Table Saw

263K views 279 replies 74 participants last post by  EricOly  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Delta - 36-725 (Rating: 5)

EDIT: This review was edited to add a link to a my blog on how to easily and safely align the blade. The sections on blades and blade alignment have been removed from this review and are now in a stand alone process.

Delta 36-725 Table Saw blade alignment link
http://lumberjocks.com/thetinman/blog/45305

FOLLOW UP REVIEW: http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3881

TABLESAW ADDITIONS: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/101376

A few friends and I share our shops and the fun of woodworking. Among us we have a diversity of age, knowledge, woodworking experience and financial flexibility. Among us there exists a wide verity of table saw types and brands. Only one of us has the luxury of a true cabinet saw. (Yes. we all hate him too but he has good beer.) The rest of us mere mortals make due with our finances such as they are. Of the type/price saw that the Delta is, two of our friends own the "orange" one and one owns the "gray" one. (He picked up the "gray" for $378 when Lowes was dumping them for the new Delta.) The "orange" and "gray" work well but each has its weak points. One of our friends upgraded from an old Ryobi and bought the new Delta 36-725 about 5-weeks ago. I've been very impressed with the saw - so much so that I sold my old Craftsman and bought one. Now understand, I've owned many table saws and owned that Craftsman for over 20-years and it has served me well. I've had it so long that Craftsman can't remember when they built good stuff like that. I've never out-worked the old girl. She was showing her age but we aged together and understood each other's quirks. Given the opportunity to use the Delta several times I knew it was time to go Hollywood and trade in my old girlfriend on a new model. (I hope my wife don't read this. I've had her longer.) I just finished the assembly and all the adjustments. These are my comments - with a bit of personal humor.

Before I begin, I understand that everyone has his/her opinion as to what is good or bad - junk or quality. As a retired engineer I use only one definition: "it is a quality product if it meets or exceeds the expectations of the intended customer". With that in mind, I will not compare this saw to the expensive cabinet saws or to the smaller portable job-site saws. Such comparisons simply make no sense to me. I will also not jump $200-$300 to such things as the Grizzly. I'll stick to the $500-$600 price range because for most people this is an upgrade or replacement and they will never outgrow such a saw. At present there seems to be only 3 top runners in this price/type of saw - the orange one, the gray one and this one. Given the past 5-weeks, I can now say I've used all three of them quite a bit and bought, what I believe, is the better choice for the money.

I would also add this; my shop is only 11-1/2 feet wide. This saw is about 2-inches less width than my Craftsman. I have a bit over 3-feet left on either end of the saw to walk around. I have plenty of space before and after the saw in my 22-foot long garage to work. Shop width has never been an issue and my Craftsman did not have wheels. If you wanted to move it you got 3 men and a small boy with his dog to help. The point I'm trying to make is, if you've never owned a shop saw don't feel like you HAVE to buy a smaller saw just because you have a small shop. If you share the garage with cars and storage, the wheels make it easy to move against a wall or even roll into the driveway if need be. Buy the saw you want and not what others perceive.

Delta calls this saw a contractor saw. Call it what you will - a hybrid, a compromise - it is a fine design producing an accurate, well built and reliable shop saw with far more capability than a job-site saw and at a price more affordable than a true cabinet saw. I simply call it a shop saw.

Review Summary

This saw is stable, quiet, powerful and accurate. It takes time to put it together properly but is well worth it. The evidence of attention to detail is evident everywhere in this saw. It is designed to be less expensive but not cheap - and there is a difference.

The fence system is just plain second to none for a saw of this type. If you think you need another fence then you're a wood technoid and I love you for it. But you won't need another fence because this one is flawed.

There is very little play in the miter gauge and there are recessed screws you can use to tweak it even more if you choose.

Adjustments are easy to understand with everything easy to reach. The fence and the riving knife both needed adjusting on my saw. 20-minutes were needed to bring them both in perfectly.

The back panel of the saw is removable providing access to the motor, bevel gears, etc. Setting the saw at 45-degrees provides easy access to the motor should the need ever arise. (We all know what "easy" means when it comes to the motor.)

The throat plate is sheet steel. The days of milled steel or aluminum plates in this price range are gone. There are 5 adjustment screws to fine-tune the plate level with the table. Also, the back of the painted throat plate is polished steel for the anti-kickback pawls to ride on without cutting into the painted surface.

Speaking of throat plates - NOTICE TO ALL MANUFACTURERS - STOP putting those welded spring fingers on the ends of sheet steel plates. Welding displaces and distorts the steel. Go back to the tried and true front/rear screws with a keyway at the back. We don't change plates every 5-minutes and don't need distorted but easy to remove plates. If sheet steel is to be then at least don't screw it up for us. What are you people thinking? (Sorry, but I hate stupid gimmicks.)

The pedal to raise/lower the saw takes little effort. Once raised you don't even notice the weight. It moves easily on the 3-inch wheels. It is a fine choice if you want to park cars in the garage and store the saw against the wall. Moving out of a garage into a driveway to work is no problem. (Tip: put the wheel lever to the left, not the right, as described in the assembly later.)

Specs don't seem to agree on the weight of the saw. That's because it is still changing. My saw came in at 216-lbs. after weighing all the parts and adding them up.

The blade height and angle hand wheels work smoothly and drive steel shafts and gears rather than plastic ones and are held by bushings not plastic sleeves.

The lock knobs on the hand wheels hold everything securely with only a snug tightening. (Don't honk these things down. You don't have to.)

This saw has more power than I need. I used carpet tape to laminate up a 3-inch piece of red oak from scrape. It went through easily. In fact, I ran it at the same feed rate I was used to with my Craftsman and burned the oak a bit. I increased my feed rate slightly and got a fine cut.

The saw is quiet and has little vibration. (Yes, it passed the nickel test. I did it only because I knew someone would ask.) I raised the blade to 2-inches and set the blade at 45-degrees. I did not lock the depth or miter wheels and ran the saw for 15-minutes. Nothing had changed at the end of the time. Just for snaps, I ripped a 2-foot piece of select pine and it was still in. Of course you don't want to actually work this way. But I have found that the job-site saws and other saws of this type/price just aren't this balanced, well fitted and tight.

The miter gauge blade is 13-1/2 inches long measured from the face of the gauge. It holds a nominal 1Ă—12-inch board with ease. The table is deep providing ample lead-in to cross cut this stock lumber. A 12-inch (nominal) board sits comfortably on the table with inches remaining before it hits the blade. We live in a Âľ-inch world and standard wide stock is 12-inches (well, anywhere from 11-1/4 to 11-5/8 nowadays). This means wide stock can be easily cross cut on this saw and possibly save the cost of a sliding miter saw. After all, table saws were doing this a great many decades before job-site saws introduced the need for sliding miter saws. Money is always an issue for us mere mortals and this functionality is worth consideration.

Like all the others, the dust chute on this saw does a good job if you want to run the shop vac all the time. Some people working in a garage may pop breakers if they try to run the saw and vac together. If you take off the back panel you will see that the plastic pipe is hinged where it attaches to the blade shroud. A wing nut holds it in place or releases it. This makes it easy to clear clogs caused by wood chips or dust build up because you didn't run the vac often enough. Please note that, if you don't run the vac, the spinning blade actually sucks air from the outside and blows more dust into the air - right at you. All these new saws do this. Thank you for saving us from ourselves Washington. I tested opening the plastic pipe and that reduced the blowback.

I always feel uncomfortable when asked if I would recommend a product to someone else because so much is subjective personal preference. I'll simply say that I would buy another in a heartbeat.

The motor is wired for 110V but can now be rewired for 220V if desired. I don't know if they changed the motor or just finally said it could be rewired.

Problems With New Designs
It is a new design and is clearly still going through some refinements. My new saw has changes compared to my friend's 5-week old one. I will point them out as I go. The manual with the saw has not been updated at all from the first design iteration. This makes assembly a bit confusing but it is not terrible if you think your way through it. Most confusion comes from what hardware to use. When the book and the hardware bags don't match, count the hardware and use the stuff that adds up.

Another drawback with new designs is the unavailability of accessories or, even worse, replacement parts and service. Frankly, after using the saw many times and liking it, I banked on Delta and hope nothing goes wrong too soon. But, recognize there is an inherent risk. They don't recall these things at their cost like cars.

I've included some assembly steps in this review because the owner's manual has never been updated and think some corrections/updates are needed. Also, I've seen many questions from people who have never assembled a saw like this and felt this might be helpful. Finally, the review continues in some ways as we move from unpacking to finished assembly.

Assembly: Let's Put This Puppy Together

Step one: open the first beer. This is a 4-beer project. Everyone knows that machinery and electricity are scary and dangerous. Don't attempt any of it without a beer to calm your nerves. If you have friends over to help don't forget your manners - you buy the beer.

First Look Opening The Box
The packaging is well planned and suited for the product. The top piece of Styrofoam is compartmentalized and holds all the parts/components/bags of hardware. As you take all the things out you notice that none of the hardware bags are marked with names or letters. They all say that the plastic is not a toy and not to let babies and small children play with it. No such warning is on the saw so I guess babies can play with that. Sorry again, I have developed an intolerance for the idiots that cause such labels. Now I need a magnifying glass to read cooking instructions for all the large, bold type nutritional labels and warnings. Whatever happened to Darwin?

First Look Under The Hood
After all the parts are removed and you take out the top large piece of Styrofoam, the inside of the saw is visible. It is packaged upside down and there is a clear view of the trunnion assembly, motor housing, bevel gears, dust collection cover and table casting.

The gears are steel, not plastic. The dust collection is a metal housing with plastic piping out the back of the saw. The trunnion assembly is cast alloy and is attached to the saw top and not the framing. This should not be surprising for this type/price of saw. The "supposed" frame mounted attempts in this price/saw type are flimsy and not worth the effort. If you're going to do it then do it right - cast iron workhorse - or don't pretend. All of the mounting surfaces are machined, radiused and reinforced which should preclude the tendency of some cast alloys to crack. The table iron casting is simply superb - better than expected. There are no gobs of excess cast iron from poorly made cast bodies or overflow vents like on other brands. The point is that, this is a cost conscious saw, but the attention to detail and workmanship shows it is not a cheap saw. The impression is a quality minded design and manufacturing team.

Now For Assembly
Don't take the saw out of the box. The top is protected on Styrofoam and cardboard. Build from here, cut the sides of the box and tip it over to right it when the entire base is done. Remove the Styrofoam when the saw is on its back. The first step is to bolt the two halves of the leg/stand assembly together then slip them into the top frame. Think for a moment. The pedal for raising/lowering the saw is centered on the right side with a reach to get to it. Flip the legs around so the pedal is on the left and make life easy. The saw does not care. Everything is symmetrical. When you push the legs into the top frame you may not find the holes. Check for tape over the holes from painting. Ironically they taped the through-holes but painted the new threads for attaching the side panels.

The next step is to attach the metal side support panels. The book says there is only a front and back panel and they attach with nuts and bolts. Wrong. There are now side panels also and all 4 panels are connected with bolts into threaded holes. The threaded holes were not taped so getting the screws going will be a little snug at first. Just look for the bag containing 16 bolts (hex screws).

Attach the 3" wheels and leveling feet and she's ready to tip over. Don't over tighten and bind the wheels.

Before Moving on, it is important to celebrate overcoming the owner's manual to this point. Have a beer and take 5.

Cut the box corners so the box just falls apart. Use a 4X4 rather than a 2X4 standing on edge to protect the dust pipe. My wife and I flipped this thing over without breaking a sweat. Building in the box and using the legs to pull her onto her back is simple. Now it pivots on the 4X4 and lifting it to its feet is a breeze. Knock the big piece of Styrofoam off while it's pivoting on the 4Ă—4. Now, before you do anything else, turn the miter wheel a bit and remove the hunk of shipping Styrofoam under the motor. Otherwise you'll have to take off the back panel and do it at the end - if you notice the tag on the angle wheel at all. Styrofoam sure smells when it melts if you forget. Now flip her upright. Once she's upright go get one of your wife's best towels and wipe off all that oil. (If you actually do that you're one of those that need all the warning labels and deserve what you get.)

The book says to attach each side table extension with 3 bolts/nuts. You only use two. It also says to make sure they are level with the cast iron top. Really! With 2 bolts? Just attach them for now and level them (critical in more ways than one) when you put the rails on. Use the long steel fence guide as a straight edge. It is heavy and stays in place. Just bolt the table extensions so they are even at the cast table edge for now.

OMG! It's A Split Rail And Fence Guide Design!
Of course it is. Think about it. This saw is designed to be shipped to and stocked in one of the warehouse stores. The designers have to take this into account. It is actually less cost for the manufacturer to use one-piece rails. That cuts down on parts manufacturing and stocking. But, adding another 15 or 20-inches to the rail length means bigger boxes. That would cross the container size threshold for the next higher shipping cost. Also, the standard shelving bays in these stores can hold 2 boxes of this size but only one if it were larger.

Now let's put these rails on and concentrate on the critical points. The end result will be a fence that is square no mater where you put it and an accurate tape measure (if that's important to you). Regarding the fence tape measure, don't forget it all goes out the window if you change to a different thickness blade. You can, of course, readjust the plastic indicator.

When attaching the rails GET THEM STRAIGHT. This is the most critical, and somewhat frustrating, thing to do. Blow this and the fence guide does not have a chance - the fence guide just follows what is done here and your saw fence depends on the fence guide to be consistently square. The 5-handed trick here is to hold your mouth just right while you attach the rails, making sure they are straight while you are now leveling your side tables. Simple. You just have one hand tightening the bolt while your 2nd hand is holding the nut under the table and your 3rd hand is holding the provided alignment gauge and your 4th hand is aligning the side tables and your 5th hand is adjusting the rail. Joking aside, I did it myself and when it was done wondered why I didn't get my wife out there to help. Start by attaching the rails to the cast iron table using the guide provided. Just remember to keep both pieces of angle iron straight (as though they are one piece) through the whole run. Have wifey hold the alignment gauge for you if you get too flustered. Just be sure she gets a beer too. The picture shows how it should be when done - straight all the way across both pieces of rail. You could go buy a piece of 2-inch angle iron and cut it, drill it, etc. but this is an age-old design and it can be accomplished well.

That piece of black something above the silver straight edge is the long fence guide used as the straight edge to adjust the table extensions. I noticed it in the pic and thought it might be confusing without explanation.

The straight edge on top of the rail shows no gaps. The rail is straight. Now the fence guides will go on straight and the fence will be square no matter where you put it. Remember to do the same exacting assembly on the back rails. Then come back and check the front again. Don't get flustered if you have the rails straight on the cast iron and they go out when leveling up the side tables. Just keep fine-tuning and everything will come out right in the end. It sounds worse to describe than to do. Just take your time here.

Congratulations, you have just accomplished the most critical, difficult and frustrating part of putting your saw together. Have another beer and take a break. You've earned it.

Now attach the fence guides. There is slight play is the holes. Use your straight edge. This is actually pretty easy to get correct now that the rails are straight. When done the fence guide should be straight (as though it is one piece) on top and on the front edge. On my saw the tape measure is not aligned straight from the factory. It affects nothing. It just takes away from the appearance of a job well done. All this attention to detail and they blow a simple step like this.

The only assembly remaining is finish up by putting handles on the height/angle wheels, the fence handle and other small final assembly stuff.

Check everything - your fence alignment, miter gauge, riving knife, etc. and tune as needed. The instructions are clear on everything except the riving knife where they show screws A, B, and C in the pic and then tell you to adjust D. For the riving knife, there are 4 screws - 2 for the knife to blade alignment and 2 for the vertical alignment. The screws are in pairs under the throat plate on the left side. The knife-to-blade alignment is in front and the vertical alignment is in back of these. The large screw is the locking screw and the smaller in-board one is the adjusting screw. Avoid the temptation to take the easy way out and hold the riving knife in place with your hand and then tighten down the locking screw. It will not stay there because it is no longer in contact with the adjusting screw. Once again, take your time and do it right. By the way, I only threw in this last caution because one of my friends, an "orange" owner, kept adjusting the knife with his hand. He would brag about how easy it was to adjust but blamed the saw because it would not stay. Doing it wrong is not the fault of the tool.

When everything is assembled and tuned up, take everything off the table and clean it. Now wax everything with a good hard paste wax. Floor wax, car wax, whatever. Don't use the liquid. It is not hard enough and may contaminate your raw lumber. My personal preference is hard paste floor wax. I've was taught, and continue to use, Johnson's floor wax but it is getting harder to find. The only place still stocking it is my local "helpful hardware store". Don't glob on the wax -just a thin buffed out coating is all that's needed.

Now your new saw is ready to use. All you have to do to keep her and all your other tools happy is to have a "shop day" about every three months. That's where you go out, open the hood (back panel) clean her inside and out, grease as needed, etc. and a new coat of wax. Check and retune the fence, miter gauge, etc. if needed. Yes I know the "your going to die but don't sue me" warnings that say to do this before each use. Yea right. If something goes out of whack I notice and tend to it immediately. Otherwise, I hit the run button and have fun. Somehow I just don't think I'm alone in this.

Now, have that last beer and stare at the beauty of your new saw and revel in your sense of accomplishment. And, I dare you not go out and take a peek later after you're done for the day and have gone into the house. Don't confess later - we all know you did.
 

Attachments

#52 · (Edited by Moderator)
Good morning Terry,
Too new to know much about a farmer's market next to the Academy. Haven't spent any time over that way yet. Know of that cut you mentioned, near Bay City I believe. Looking forward to doing some fishing as well. We have one grand daughter on Kent Island, I am sure she will 'encourage' us with each hug as your daughter's did with you. My shop toys list is long and resources shorter. Kno wut I mean Vern? Will need to wait to find out just how large (small) my future workshop will be. Just a few months now before the move. Looking forward to your TS update.
Gerry
 
#53 · (Edited by Moderator)
Tinman, Thanks very much for your great review! I just bought my saw today, and your review really helped me finally pull the trigger. The assembly info you provided was invaluable for getting me through the set up quickly. I did the whole thing by myself (thank God for clamps and a long straight edge!) A few hours, a couple of bad words during the alignment of the rails, and a couple of beers later…sawdust!

Since I am waiting for a replacement dial gauge, all of the alignment I did was using a 1/64th scale ruler and a digital caliper. The blade and riving knife were in alignment out of the box. After a few tweaks to the fence to square it up, I did a quick test cut using a 30" scrap piece, and it was within about .0025" so I'm a very happy camper!

I've been reading the info on this forum for quite a while, but only joined a short while ago. This is my first post. I'll be doing mostly reading and learning here as I am pretty new to woodworking. It'll probably be a while until I have anything of substance to contribute. So for now, I'll be on the sidelines absorbing the great info that this forum has to offer. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks again for your review. Definitely one of the best I've read on any topic in quite some time.

Chris.
 
#54 · (Edited by Moderator)
Chris,

Thanks for your comments. The more comments - the more info for all readers. I'm glad the information was helpful to you and made the assembly and alignments easier. Using a rule rather than a dial gauge for aligning/checking alignment is a fine method. Been done that way long before dial gauges came along. Based on responses thus far to this post and elsewhere your comments about the blade being aligned out of the box is the norm. Only one buyer had to adjust it. But, you were lucky on the riving knife. Everyone else had to align it; not difficult at all.

If you're getting 0.0025 over 30-inches I'd call that dead on. Wood is not stable. That's a reading that will change if you breathe on it, stare at it too long or just part your hair differently.

Being new to woodworking keep watching this post. I'll be posting my follow-up review shortly after having used the saw for a few projects. The follow-up includes some maintenance and user tips. Since many of my old jigs/fixtures went with my old Craftsman saw I have had to build new ones. Given the responses from new woodworkers and weekend warriors, I've redesigned and built the jig/fixtures based on limited skills, tools and money. I'll post all of them at the same time in the hope of helping them get off to a run. Practice on the fixtures then use them to make better projects. To get you started, this is the link to a zero clearance plug. I posted it early due to the high number of questions.

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/99601

Congratulations on your new saw. Stay safe and have fun.

Terry
 
#55 · (Edited by Moderator)
Terry,

Excellent post on the ZC plug. Made one last night. Works great. One thing I discovered, the stop collar slipped on the countersink bit, and I wound up going deeper than I planned. As a result the 3/4" machine screw I was using contacted the blade shroud bracket in the front of the blade, and I had to use a 1/2" screw to clear it so the throat plate would sit flush.

I'm looking forward to seeing your follow up and other jigs/fixtures. I'm putting together a cross cut sled tonight.

Also, I switched out the stock blade to a thin kerf Irwin Marples, and wound up having to adjust the riving knife. Other than cracking one of the set screws, it went smooth as silk. They must have put it in with an air impact wrench at the factory!

Thanks again for all the great info.

Chris.
 
#56 · (Edited by Moderator)
Chris,

Thanks for the info. I did say to use whatever screws/nuts you had laying around the shop and I confess I said to go for 3/4" because I knew they would work. That is my bad. They don't have to be that long. I should have said no longer than 3/4" but shorter is OK. As you pointed out, if you make a mistake and go too deep with the counter sink you could encounter a problem. I should have but did not anticipate that situation.

I've not been a fan of Irwin blades for a long time but I read a couple of reviews on the new Marples series and tried one myself. I'm now running an Irwin Marple 50 tooth combo as my standard. I love it. It beats the crap out of the Diablo blades I have been using. Less chips in the face. Maybe not for a purist, but for me the rip cuts are glue ready. The cross cuts are a little ruff but still better than the Diablo gave me. And it cuts plywood better than any of my 60 or 80 tooth blades. Which Marples are you running? What is your experience with it - if you've used it enough to tell yet?

Terry
 
#58 · (Edited by Moderator)
Terry,

If someone else learns from my mistake that would be awesome! If I had been doing any anticipating myself, I would have set the depth on the drill press, which would have avoided the whole collar slippage thing. I have been using the countersink bit mostly with the cordless drill, and being a creature of habit, it didn't even occur to me until after I blundered. 20/20 hindsight! Oh well…live and learn.

I am running the Marples 80T Ultra-Smooth Crosscut blade. I've been cutting 3/4 oak and birch plywood, 4/4" oak and maple, and 3/4 melamine. I was running this blade for a bit on my Makita 2703 before I upgraded to the Delta. I have been very happy with it so far. Very smooth cuts. It was a huge improvement on the melamine, very little chip out for a clean edge (top and bottom). It does really well on the hardwood. Oak and maple look almost sanded, no swirl. Nice clean crosscuts on the plywood too. The rips aren't fast, but they are very clean. This was all before I did the zero clearance plug too. I don't know how it will hold up over the long run, but I am very satisfied with the results so far.

I'll soon be doing a cherry ottoman for my wife. The legs will be done with 8/4. So I'll see how it handles thicker stock shortly. It will be my first real attempt at a furniture project. I don't have a band saw or planer, so I'll be doing all the milling using a bench top jointer (a used Delta 37-070 in almost new condition that I just picked up for $100 off Craigslist) and the new Delta table saw.

Chris.
 
#59 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi Chris,

Thanks for the info on the Irwin Marples blade. You're running an 80 tooth and I'm running a 50 combination both with good results. I don't think you'll have any trouble with the 2" cherry (8/4). The thickest/hardest I've cut was 2-inch "new" maple. I did run a test cut on some 2+ inch maple that was over a 100 years old. That stuff was like a rock and the saw labored noticeably. It looks like Irwin is coming back to woodworkers and not just contractors. (At least with the Marples series)

Just a tip on cutting Melamine. Chip out comes when the saw blade exits the wood on the bottom. I've had good luck by cutting a very shallow pre-cut, no more than 1/8-inch deep. This avoids the blade loading with chips/sawdust and allows it to cut rather than tear. Then I raise the blade and make the actual cut. Very little if any tear/chip out. I do the same thing with hardwood plywood. Another way is to use a razor knife to score the line before cutting. I haven't had much luck with this because it gives a fine cut on one side of the blade where I scored but leaves the other side ragged. I'm sure you could measure the final kerf of the blade to score both sides but I find a shallow cut is just easier.

Terry
 
#61 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi Rick,

Good point. Thanks. I was not clear when talking about using the 50 combo as my standard blade and also talking about ripping thicker stock. I shifted gears from talking about blades and then talking about the saw in the next sentence. Chris and I had communicated in a PM and I fell into the trap of talking in shorthand. That was not clear at all for other readers. Thanks for pointing it out.

I use a 24 ripper for thick hard stock.

Thanks again for clearing things up and keeping me on my toes.

Terry
 
#62 · (Edited by Moderator)
I just finished aligning my TS. I tried using a dial indicator and it kept telling me the front was closer than the back of the blade, but I eventually gave up trying to get it right (new to using it, so I may be doing it wrong). I ended up using a ruler and a dowel cut; I think it's close enough for my needs. I have to agree that this baby is super quiet. I didn't have to use hearing protection, which is amazing to me considering I came from an old Ryobi, cheap, vibrating, TS.
One question though, the back of my fence is not flush with the table; either the padding on the fence is causing it or the back rail is too high. What's the easier fix?
 
#63 · (Edited by Moderator)
Rayne,

I'm not clear whether you are aligning the fence (to the blade) or aligning the blade to the miter slot. I think by the way you describe things that you are aligning the blade.

If you are aligning the blade a dial indicator is not necessary. Rulers, dowels, pieces of wood were used for centuries before dial indicators came along. The traditional way to align the blade is to just crack the trunnion bolts loose (don't do more than crack them loose). Tap the trunnions until the blade is in alignment. Retighten the bolts remembering to just snug each and move to the next repeatedly until they are all tight. A gentleman posted a comment about another method but has either since removed it or I simply can't find it. The following is an overview of alignments in general.

OK, I have read debates about aligning the fence to the blade so my methods may raise contention with some. So everyone, if I misuse a word or two please bare with me. I am describing how I do my saw alignments regardless of the brand. They have always worked for me. This is described in my saw review follow-up coming soon to a theater near you.

Assuming that the saw was assembled correctly:

1st: I check the tabletop. Using a straight edge, is the top flat? I've found sag in some of the aluminum ones but never in the cast iron. For the purpose of this writing, don't bother to check that the miter slots are square to the table. I have not found the cast iron tables to be out - but if they are so what? For these alignment purposes it is an irrelevant check and can lead to confusion later. For alignment purposes just assume they are square and that the left and right slots are parallel. This will become clearer as the alignment process continues.

2nd: Check that the blade is parallel to the left miter slot. Either slot works but the left is closer and it just makes sense to use it. Adjust if needed. Now we know that all 3 key elements are parallel to each other - left miter slot, right miter slot and the blade. This is the focus for alignment, parallel.

Once the blade has been blessed to be dead on or close enough for your work, never align the fence to it. Aligning the fence to the blade is a compensation measure for a blade that cannot be aligned properly. I find this to be improbable for this saw. All but one buyer of this saw has found the blade to be in alignment within 0.002 out of the box. Generally, this is considered dead on for most people who use this type of saw. It can be aligned to be dead on to meet the needs of a more precise user. Adjust/align only the miter gauge to be 90-degrees to the blade.

3rd: Adjust the fence to be parallel to the right miter slot all the way across the table. Either slot, but I work 99% of the time on the right so it's just easier to use the right slot. The fence will be parallel to the left miter slot and the blade if it is parallel to the right miter slot. DO NOT align the fence to be square to the front of the table. The saw works on the 3 key elements to be parallel (left/right slots and the blade). I have seen much confusion due to an owner squaring the fence to the front of the table and insisting the fence was square then asking for help when problems were encountered. No mater how much others try to help the owner insists the fence is square because it lines up to the front of the table using a big box store adjustable square. Think parallel. Do not think square.

Now Rayne, let's cover the fence not being flush with the table all the way across. To begin, fences do not sit flat on the table. Because of this users add "flush" temporary fences when working with thin stock such as veneers or Formica.

The back of the fence rides on a slick Nylon pad. The height is fixed by the height of the back fence rail. Besides adjusting the fence to be parallel to the miter slot (called squaring the fence), there is another adjustment called squaring the fence head. A bit confusing since you are not really squaring the head (the front part of the fence with the locking handle). These are the 2 nylon screws on top of the head. They are used to make the face of the fence square to the tabletop. Crank down (clockwise) on the right screw and the fence tilts to the left. Crank down (clockwise) on the left screw and the fence tilts to the right. You can use these two screws to raise/lower the front of the fence to have the same gap all the way across. Here you are compensating for any height discrepancy between the front and back fence rails. Just make sure you bring the left side fence face back to square to the tabletop when you're done.

I hope this info helps. Good luck.

Terry
 
#64 · (Edited by Moderator)
Thank you for the amazing review and the extremely detailed assembly writeup. The instructions do not match the supplied hardware very well. I got to the point of attaching the table extensions and gave up since i surely didn't have the 3x screws per side that they were saying to use. My cast iron top had 3 holes, but the center one was much smaller so i even questioned if it was drilled correctly. Your review saved me from calling in and requesting a 'missing' hardware pack. They really should start shipping an updated set of assembly instructions to avoid this confusion.

EDIT: I found that they supply an updated manual on their website. You can download it here: http://www.deltamachinery.com/downloads/manuals/table_saws/36-725/DELTA_36-725_Contractor_Table_Saw_Manual_Eng.pdf
 
#65 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi BTARB,

I'm happy to hear that the info in the review was helpful to you. I'm aware of the new manual. It is a great improvement over the original but it is still in error on the riving knife adjustment and still no mention of blade alignment. I'll cover both off those in my follow up. The riving knife is not difficult to figure out. But if you've never had a tablesaw before aligning the blade can be a mystery.

Thanks again,

Terry
 
#66 · (Edited by Moderator)
Terry,
Thank you for the detailed follow-up. I'm pretty sure my blade is within my tolerance for alignment to the left miter slot. I'll do a test later on to see just how far off I really am, but the ruler and my combination square seems to agree, so we'll see. As for the fence, it is parallel to the miter slots. I initially just used my fingers to adjust and then followed-up with a ruler for fine tuning and it's parallel to the right miter slot now. And you are right that the fence shouldn't be flush against the table; I'm not sure why I was trying to figure out a way to lower it, but it's not bad. I'll just raise up the front a little to even it out because I don't like the fence not being level. Now, for the fence being perpendicular, I have not checked that so thank you for mentioning that. I'll take a look at that tomorrow. I just started building my workbench, so we'll see just how good this saw cuts. I'll follow up with photos later on. Thank you again for all the responses.
 
#67 · (Edited by Moderator)
I can't believe I actually read this whole novel. I wonder how this compares to my Craftsman 21829. I like the top on this saw, with the miter gauge grooves. But, I like my sliding miter table, except that I still need to adjust it's height to the saw's table. Just a hair too low. I think I would prefer the iron table to my coated aluminum table. The coating is coming off. On the other hand, I think the iron would rust in my basement.

I wouldn't completely discount the Craftsman 21829 as a competitor to this saw in this price range. Being a color modification of the BT3100, which has a decent following, I think you can add "red" to the rainbow of table saws in comparison.

Now to go finish my beer.
 
#68 · (Edited by Moderator)
Ljackson,

At the beginning of this novel I state that no comparison will be made between this saw and the smaller, lighter portable job-site saws. I still don't make such comparisons. For that reason "red" is no comparison except for the price charged.

FYI, the novel is not over. The requested follow-up review has been posted.

Enjoy your beer.
 
#71 · (Edited by Moderator)
Woodpop,

A lot of nonsense has been said about this saw from plastic panels to not being able to use a dado blade and everything in between. In every case when the originator of the misinformation could be found I or other owners have been told "well that's what I heard" or "well I didn't really look at it - I just saw it from the isle and that's what I thought".

Of course you can use a dado blade. I use mine all the time, usually for 1/2 or 3/4-inches. The only issue is that, as a new design, accessories are hard to find. According to Delta a dado throat plate is in production but orders are on backlog. Making a throat plate is a simple task for any woodworker and this is certainly not a decision maker/breaker when deciding on a purchase.

You can read more about this saw.

There is also a follow up review at: http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3881

Also how I have dressed the saw so far: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/101376
 
#72 · (Edited by Moderator)
What a great review of this saw. My wife says I can't have the SawStop cause my fingers aren't worth it, hmmm? Anyways I have to tone down the costs and I saw the Delta next to the Bosch 4100-09 in Lowes. I saw lots of good reviews for the Bosch and was leading towards getting it, but that Delta looked great. After searching the net I found your review. Nice. So whats the thoughts of the Delta compared to the Bosch 4100-09, they both are at the same price?
 
#74 · (Edited by Moderator)
BirdB,

The Bosch is a great saw but, as I stated in the review, the Delta and the Bosch really can't be directly compared. The Bosch is a jobsite saw. As such it has a much smaller working table, slide out extensions (although you can now buy inserts), and a different type of direct drive motor.

You asked for MY thoughts so here they are. If I am going to be carting a saw around I'd pick the Bosch and know I was compromising in the name of portability. If I wanted a shop saw that was easy to move around (but not transport) I'd go for the larger, quieter more refined Delta. Larger capacity. Better miter gauge. Much better fence.

There is more written about the Delta on this site. Check out the links in the post just before yours.
 
#76 · (Edited by Moderator)
Thanks for all the information on this saw. After posting my last request I did what I should have in the first place and read the manual (online) to answer my questions pre-purchase. I will make the throat plate easy enough. Either a wood one or get a spare and cut it out.
I don't know how many of you out there are veterans, but you can get another 10% off the best price if you have a veterans ID with your photo on it. That's a pretty nice discount at the blue store and the orange store across the board on all purchases.
I enjoy making furniture for family and friends in my shop from other peoples cast offs. I use hardwood flooring to make some really nice stuff and mostly get the materials for free. Just ask around the lumber stores for a few boxes left off from discontinued unfinished stuff and you will be surprised what you find for little or nothing. I also like Habitat restore.
Thanks again!