The woodworking show is in town this weekend (Saint Louis, Missouri, USA, Earth). I have been going long enough that I recognize various vendors and they remember me. If they are not too busy, and today was not a busy day, I stop by and talk with them.
I picked up various "rumors" that I thought I would share. Take these with a grain of salt as I don't have anything other than what vendors told me.
1. Delta was bought by Stanly, and then sold to a Chinese company, who has decided to close Delta down. No one knows what will happen concerning parts availability. I heard this from two venders.
2. The woodworking shows has been sold yet again. The new owner has funding to try to improve the show in coming years.
3. General power tools (Canada) is having problems.
From my observations of the show:
1. It is smaller than previous years with fewer vendors. This trend has been happening for several years.
2. The only stationary power tools displayed is Hammer. They had a single table saw ($1995) and a bandsaw.
3. Several years ago, if you arrived a half hour before the show started there would not be any parking, even in the over flow lot. Today there were entire rows open in the main lots and the parking lot never seemed to fill up. Although, people still elected to park in the overflow lots (habit maybe - or wishful thinking).
4. Every seminar I attended today (both on the main floor and the separate rooms) had empty seats. Several years ago seminars on the main floor was standing room only.
5. Sand-Flee is back! They told me that the previous owners of the show were friends with Stockroom Supply (Canada) the sellers of the V-Drum sander and Sand-Flee was told they were not welcome at the show. It is good to have them present.
6. Neither Rockler nor Woodcraft were present. In previous years Woodcraft brought Tommy Mac in for at least 1 day of presentations.
These are just my observations and comments I heard.
I've heard that in several places about General…that's too bad; I have or have had a TS/jointer/DC/bandsaw and drill press from them; they have been the best tools I've owned. I'll be sad if they go under.
I spoke with a General dealer today in BC. He told me that General is shutting down its Canadian manufacturing line, and that the company was not going out of business, but rather would only be selling their General International line of tools, which are manufactured overseas.
I went to the one they did in Western Mass a couple weeks ago and I was definitely not impressed. Unless I hear that it gets better, I will save my time and money and skip it next year. Just wasn't worth it.
Honestly, once you go to one of these shows, you are not apt to return year after year to see the same vendors. That's how I roll anyway. I was thinking about going to the Mass. show but saw the vendor list and decided not to. Also - most of the instruction videos are up on You Tube (eg. Carter Bandsaw clinic) so why make the trip? And one more thing - most of the instruction today comes online. I'm enrolled in Scott Meeks plane making course online through Google+ Hangouts. The world is changing.
Interesting. The International Woodworking Show in Atlanta got into trouble a few years back because they were making all of the machinery dealers mad because of the outrageous prices they were charging them to display all of that wonderful machinery. Because of the City of Atlanta and State Government the union people on the floor had got into place all kings of rules - for example, you had to get a union electrician and let him plug in an electrical cord for a ridiculous price. Things like that. Then there were the prices you had to pay for a bottle of water or a hotdog. I mean come on. Some of the large companies would spend a couple of million dollars to come to that show. Folks, if somebody paid that kind of money to bring their machinery to the show I would have people waiting on 'em hand and foot. Fortunately, I beleive it will improve because I heard the machinery dealers association bought a big share in that show. It was getting back to normal this last show. All of this info came from large dealers that our molding plant did business with and I assume that it is true.
Heard the same re: General / General International from their rep at a store sale in Detroit in December. Price of NA labor (labour) is too much to bear.
Are the gun shows siphoning off discretionary spending of hobbyists? Guys are getting unheard of prices for scrap metal weapons, and that money has to come from somewhere.
And what about the general state of the craft and hobby? My sense is that there's a long, slow decline in interest as evidenced by fewer kids entering the arena than old guys retiring and dying off. And not just woodworking, either.
That Delta rumor has been floating for a few years now. Delta's new parent is based in Taiwan and they have their own brands so it wouldn't surprise me if they send Delta to the back of the pack in order to promote their own brands. The German company that bought Milwaukee tools tried to do that and failed (I feel bad for anybody that bought a Milwaukee tool during that short window…they got a piece of junk). When Delta/PorterCable were bought by B&D years ago PC was similarly treated in favor of the "Dewalt yellow" that B&D had owned for a long time. B&D (now owned by Stanley) had much better sucess at repositioning the PC brand (it's now in the "value category I think).
Many companies refused to exhibition due to the Costs: the sq' charge is huge, and is only the beginning - In venues I'm familiar with, Unions required each exhibitor to have at least two riggers (1 to operate the fork lift, the other to spot for the driver) - to place stock for the exhibit; 2 electricians; formal clearance from a safety inspector; and if you had running water…
I'm not anti-Union, I'm against un-commonsense and overkill, especially when the process shoots itself.
Incra stopped exhibiting, due to the cost; Sommerfeld has stopped, as well.
Regarding Hammer, there doing very well from the shows: they're having trouble keeping-up with demand, at this point.
For Delta, I'd be surprised if they go out of business - you don't buy a brand, then not use it - though, Stanley is doing a great job killing Porter-Cable. I've had a lot of trouble finding parts for my 14" Delta bandsaw.
The Golden Egg which was The Woodworker's Show is now part of the bygone era, before everyone started to squeeze the money tree.
MJCD
My former company exhibits at a huge trade show every year in Las Vegas, and the costs for floor space, electricians, teamsters, etc. amount to legalized extortion.
Our costs for a 20' by 20' booth with 40 amp service dropped in from the catwalk in the hall would run close to $30 thousand dollars, not including cost of the booth itself, shipping, hotel, meals, and travel.
I'm going to the Milwaukee show next week … never been to one, so I'm looking forward to the experience.
The local guys I buy a lot of wood from had a booth in the show. I thought he said it was $1500 for this tiny space they had. Plus he said they were "pressured" into it. Those shows are kinda like extortion in some ways for sure. The place was packed though.
Don't get me started abt. the union rip-offs at a trade show.
I got in big trouble years ago for replacing a light bulb in one of our display units.
Some bozo came up and started a bunch of crap. I told him to kiss my neither parts.
I do miss the wwing show in ATL. that is/was held in Gwinnet.
Bill
Years ago a friend of my dad related his experience at a trade show…electric signs needed to be plugged in by a union electrician. They were big and fragile hence were shipped in wooden crates. He had to call in a union carpenter because the electrician refused to open the crates. Same thing in reverse when the show was over. That was his last trade show I think.
OT but there was a time in Milwaukee where supermarkets had to put metal grates over their meat cases when the meat cutters left for the day ('no meat for you").
But back to the topic…the internet has certainly changed the woodworking world. One might want to attend a trade show soon if you ever want to see one.
As a toy train enthusiast, I hate to say that I notice the same thing happening at local train shows. Sure, the economy is not helping, but the average age of those attending the show is around retirement age. Younger people who do like trains are lured to the internet stores for low prices.
I believe that the same trend is occurring in woodworking. It's been years since a show hit the local Pittsburgh area and it was pretty poorly attended by both exhibitors and woodworkers. As the younger generations are more inclined to spend their time with the lateest electronic gadgets, I do not see the trend reversing itself soon.
I'm 46 and I am one of the very fewamong my friends who enjoys working with their hands. Most couldn't be bothered. I'm not saying that there aren't any younger people enjoying the hobby, just not in the numbers they used to.
PittsburghTim…they grow up with the internet and x-boxes and other stuff now. I have 2 sons that won't even step into my workshop…no interest whatsoever. Maybe when they finally get on their own (another issue we have), they will learn that making/building things can sometimes be an economic thing in addition to getting some satisfaction from pointing at something they made.
But your post reminded me that I bought a train set at a garage sale a year or two ago. I was deprived as a child and when I saw an old "new in box" set for $25 I had to go for it.
teejkj, I know your pain. I have an 18 yo son who only cares for sports and electronics. He's shown no interest in shooting, trains, slot cars, antique cars, or even hot rods. When he was 15, I offered to sell my cherry '54 Desoto Firedome with the baby hemi v-8 so we could buid a '32 Ford like the one in American Graffitti. His response was a tepid, "I guess that would be fun." I knew that I'd end up building it alone. I still have my DeSoto.
Had my Dad made an offer like that, I would have gone nuts. I try not to take it personally as many of my friends have the same experience. I am sad that younger folks (and even those around my age) don't have an appreciation for a fine piece of machinery and the engineering and thought put into it. I still find steam locomotives fascinating and my wife is always amazed when we get to see one on a summer vacation.
I believe that it's a law that every up and coming generation must frighten &disappoint the generation that it will succeed. Still, it's clear that Gen Y, millennials, and the next batch really are different from who appears to be the mainstream on this board. "Kids" don't dream about cars and owning the way that we did. Numbers show that they're waiting longer to get licensed and fewer than ever drive at all. Being in the car biz I see research finding that aspirations end with owning electronica and being connected. Spooky stuff if your job is to market vehicles to the below-30 crowd.
Anecdotally… my shop is usually in my driveway. When I was a kid we'd hang around and watch any sort of work going on. Spectators, such as I have them, are old guys. The kids seldom go by, and they never stop to watch. In 30 years there will be great deals on old tools because there will be nobody around who wants them.
It's the Internet, people… As well as a change in the way average Joe shops.
Once upon a time, retail selling hobby shows offered good deals, and a chance to see new things demonstrated. The interwebs and You Tube have eliminated the need to physically go to a show for "show special" deals, and product demo videos are posted daily. And… it's all free…
Back in the mid-90's, I can remember guys making lists of stuff they were going to try to pick up at a show, for a month or two before the show. Nowadays, the same deals are available every day.
Non-selling, trade-only, shows are a completely different deal. In those cases, most vendors are there to build relationships, and the attendees are there on the boss' dime.
Pitt and fuigb…remember when we might spend a few hours washing and waxing our own cars (that we bought/fueled/insured/maintained with our own money)?
sigh…I'm hoping that the boys take some sort of hobbies at some point. I got into woodworking out of necessity buying an older house on a low salary.
but fuigb…my first car was a 1962 Buick Electra with a 401 wildcat…a rather modest sized vehicle compared to what happened to the Electra after that vintage but was built like a tank. any of them around anymore?
you are correct Cessna…my local tool supplier used to host "in-house" sales twice/year. Good deals, all major mfgrs were there and they brought truckloads of machines that you could browse, test, buy and take home. I remeber getting my wife out of bed to help with my first drill press.
All of you folks bemoaning the current generation…
I associate with a decent number of 20-somethings, via my "real job" at a Fortune 8, a bicycle shop and aviation. What I've noticed:
- These guys "get" current cars. Do they tune carbs? No… because they don't have to. I know 21 year olds that can turbocharge a motor, or convert a 2WD pickup to 4WD, then from gas to diesel, then to biofuel. Some drive 4 cylinder cars that can leave a traditional muscle car "hot rod" in the dust, and still take the oncoming corner or stop on a dime.
- They know how to leverage the Internet for knowledge. We had to go to the library, so we probably didn't and guessed. Lots of these guys and gals can learn FAST, and they know where to look. Sometimes, it's right there on the phone in their hand.
I graduated in the 80's as an electronic engineer. Back then, I got crap for not knowing everything about tubes, 8-track tape mechanisms, or 1970's "washing machine" disk drives. None of that knowledge would have ever been useful, looking back 30 years.
Yea I've notice that the show has been on a decline for a few years and this year the tour will bye pass the Chicago land area…the economy has really hit the show hard also you pay full retail for most items so it really not worth the bother to go pay the entry fee, pay full retail and so forth….back in the day it was well worth the effort to attend with all the show special, end of a era I guess…BC
The main reason I am going is Ron Brown … he has a bunch of seminars scheduled, and is one of the best woodturning demonstrators in the business.
I know what some of the other posters are talking about regarding today's youth. One of my grandsons has ZERO interest in anything that doesn't involve a small screen of some sort … he claims he wants to be a video game programmer.
When I was a kid, I always had at least one car project of one sort or another in progress (my dad owned a filling station, a service garage, and a used car lot). When I was 14, I built a go-cart with a Suzuki motorcycle engine on it … did all of the welding work myself. When I was 17 I had a '39 Ford Victoria that I was restoring, a '54 Ford Mainliner with a Thunderbird 352 under the hood that I drag-raced competitively, and a '56 Mercury Sun Valley. I also had half interest in a Curtis Aluminum Midget with a Ford 60 V8 that we ran at tracks around the upper Midwest. I worked three jobs to support my car habit.
@ teejk - up here it's usually the old guys tinkering with project cars. Pretty cool when the weather breaks in the spring because the tarps come off and the hibernating monsters come out.
@barry - sure, some kids can outwrench the old-timers, but the point is that tastes have changed. I was describing real market research where we get into the heads of people about their aspirations, and when it comes to automobiles there's an empty spot that's growing. The modest growth in "youth" brands doesn't begin to make up for the big number who choose to sit out. Good news, I suppose, if one is a Luddite.
My comment about youth and woodworking is only anecdotal. Frankly, I just don't see much interest in the hobby. Kids in families that are in the building trades? Yes, they learn it, but kids pursuing it as a hobby or a career out love of doing it…. I just don't see much of that. I'm not suggesting that as a society this change will bring us down, but I do feel that it says something about how homes and living spaces will be modified in the future. Also, dangit, it marks guys here as coots of the variety who wistfully recall knee breeches and rock candy. Kinda hate that this is happening to me!
I'm going to the one in Ft Worth early next month. The last one I went to was a complete disappointment but I specific goal in mind since peachtree will have their Panelmax system on sale for $199 vs. $349. That will make it worthwhile for me to go then.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
LumberJocks Woodworking Forum
2.5M posts
96K members
Since 2006
A forum community dedicated to professional woodworkers and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about shop safety, wood, carpentry, lumber, finishing, tools, machinery, woodworking related topics, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!