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How do I fix this failed attempt to refinish the floor?

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Forum topic by MiniMe posted 05-23-2022 03:30 PM 1016 views 0 times favorited 23 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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MiniMe

444 posts in 1543 days


05-23-2022 03:30 PM

Topic tags/keywords: finishing staining

I have old parquet and I am trying to give it a more modern look by moving away from the traditional colors and apply a light washed out like grey stain. Is there a way to control the consistency of the stein to make sure you do not have differences between different areas of the same floor ?

My first attempt at staining failed miserably. This is a basement room that had parquet applied previously. We removed the old finish and my wife wanted this color (the more intense spots). We still wanted to see the grain of the wood but change the traditional parquet look to something more modern. We thought we got it right after staining but when we applied the finishing coat (polyurethane) large areas seemed discolored or washed out.

Right now I am considering using 60 or 80 grit and and drum sander again to either even the zones or completely remove this finish and apply it again

if it helps here is the stain ordered from Home Depot enter image description here

Here is the catalog image


23 replies so far

View xedos's profile

xedos

558 posts in 792 days


#1 posted 05-23-2022 04:16 PM

Looks to be a pretty close match to the sample chart from your pics ?

Is the poly sheen consistent ? Did you use the same brand poly as stain ? Both waterbased ? Follow the directions to the letter ?

Waterbased stains are just more tricky to deal with in my opinion. What you’re describing sounds like (and looks like from pic) all of the old sealer wasn’t removed before staining.

Another thing that could be happening (and you can’t do anything about) is the strip variation of each square. Some are dark, some light , some medium , and they were cut and assembled every which way – which means stain will take to the same square at different rates and the light will reflect differently off each strip.

View Ofinthsnset's profile

Ofinthsnset

2732 posts in 1218 days


#2 posted 05-23-2022 04:46 PM

The problems with these stains are that they are hard to keep consistent, especially over large areas.
When you apply the stain and wipe it you can almost take all the stain back off, or if you brush it you can get a layer of stain to stay but keeping that same layer consistent is very hard. It’s almost like you have to stain a small are and totally wipe off all the excess, but then you will not get the solid color you’re looking for. Very hard to do.
Then on top of that, once you start applying you finish, the finish can lift,or wash away portions of the stain leaving it blotchy as well.
I have no advise other than put on the stain and wipe off as much off as you can, live with a lighter looking floor.
I’ve done a lot of staining myself but would not want to tackle this, sorry I couldn’t help.

Maybe best to hire someone that has experience with these WaterBased lighter colors.

View LesB's profile

LesB

3503 posts in 4935 days


#3 posted 05-23-2022 05:14 PM

What you are trying to do is very difficult with such a mix of wood grain patterns in the parquet.
Sealing the wood with a wood sealer or a 2# cut of clear de-waxed shellac would help control the penetration of the stain (Zinssers is one source). Then apply the stain. Make sure it dries thoroughly to reduce the chance of it mixing with the top coat of poly.

Alternately, apply the sealer (possibly 2 coats) and sand lightly with 320 grit to remove any raised wood fibers or settled dust; then use a color tint in the poly top coat. If you get the desired color with the first coat of poly make any additional coats with clear poly. If the first coat is too light then continue with the tinted version. I would use a water based “floor” grade of poly.

As with all finishes do some tests first.

Note: Shellac drys quite fast. I prefer to apply it with a lint free cloth pad (wear gloves), have good ventilation (the alcohol solvent vaporizes quickly). The cooler the room tempratuer the slower the dry time….which is good in this case. Wait at least 8 to 24 hours for a second coat and don’t over work it which will cause the first coat to dissolve into the second coat. Clean up is with household ammonia and water. A top coat can go on in 4 to 6 hours.

-- Les B, Oregon

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Andybb

3499 posts in 2095 days


#4 posted 05-23-2022 07:39 PM



The problems with these stains are that they are hard to keep consistent, especially over large areas.
- LeeRoyMan

That was my first thought too. I know we all WANT a wood solution but can you say, “Area rug?” Warm and cozy on the footsies.

Feel free to ridicule and ignore me. :-)

-- Andy - Seattle USA

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xedos

558 posts in 792 days


#5 posted 05-23-2022 09:25 PM

I also wanted to caution about using a drum sander on that floor now. It’s real easy to gouge the floor with those and parquet is rather thin. Plus you’ve already sanded it once to remove the finish. I’d be looking at a random orbital rig.

You might also want to give hardwax oils a go. They have colored ones too. Rubio and OSMO are the two biggies. It’s pretty easy to apply but you have to work small areas at a time. If you’re looking for high sheen – they won’t be the product for you.

View 1thumb's profile

1thumb

724 posts in 3648 days


#6 posted 05-23-2022 09:33 PM

Buy new and lay it over existing. Cheaper timewise at least in the long run

-- WAR IS PEACE. FREEDOM IS SLAVERY. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH --

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

4492 posts in 3290 days


#7 posted 05-23-2022 09:34 PM

I thought it looks pretty darn good for a stain from the borg.
If I squint my eyes it looks even better
Staining a new floor isn’t a job for diy er. How do you know if you removed all of the old finish? Well you don’t until you try staining. The only suggestion I have is to try scratch the floor evenly with a 100 grit and apply a second coat.
Good Luck

-- Aj

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

5736 posts in 2986 days


#8 posted 05-23-2022 11:03 PM

...I thought it looks pretty darn good for a stain from the borg. ...
+1

Those Behr stains are pigment based WB with a small amount of acrylic carrier. The acrylic carrier helps to reduce carry over, when applying a top coat; a desired trait for DIY floor work. But this carrier also makes color repair very difficult after it dries. Only light sanding, or use of the right solvent will allow you lift some color from the wood.

I would not use coarse grit, what you need is finesse. Use 320-400 grit plastic scuff pad to burnish the surface and remove some color. Making sure to sand with grain, to avoid leaving cross grain scratches.

Finding the right solvent to lift the color from the surface requires some testing on scraps.

Doubt water will lift color; but a 50/50 water/DNA might work.
What you likely need is a professional glycol ether or glycol ester solvent. The most commonly available WB compatible solvent is butyl cellosolve. It’s not available at big box stores, but is easy to find it at any industrial wood finish supplier.

While I have tried it, the only big box store solvent product that might work to remove some color from that stain is the BEHR de-glossing wipes. They contain a mix of WB compatible solvents that should soften a WB stain carrier. Will likely need to wipe it wet with BEHR Swipe, then use dry rag to buff the surface to an even color; making sure you wipe with grain.

Best Luck!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View CommonJoe's profile

CommonJoe

55 posts in 414 days


#9 posted 05-23-2022 11:27 PM



...I thought it looks pretty darn good for a stain from the borg. ... +1

Those Behr stains are pigment based WB with a small amount of acrylic carrier. The acrylic carrier helps to reduce carry over, when applying a top coat; a desired trait for DIY floor work. But this carrier also makes color repair very difficult after it dries. Only light sanding, or use of the right solvent will allow you lift some color from the wood.

I would not use coarse grit, what you need is finesse. Use 320-400 grit plastic scuff pad to burnish the surface and remove some color. Making sure to sand with grain, to avoid leaving cross grain scratches.

Finding the right solvent to lift the color from the surface requires some testing on scraps.

Doubt water will lift color; but a 50/50 water/DNA might work.
What you likely need is a professional glycol ether or glycol ester solvent. The most commonly available WB compatible solvent is butyl cellosolve. It s not available at big box stores, but is easy to find it at any industrial wood finish supplier.

While I have tried it, the only big box store solvent product that might work to remove some color from that stain is the BEHR de-glossing wipes. They contain a mix of WB compatible solvents that should soften a WB stain carrier. Will likely need to wipe it wet with BEHR Swipe, then use dry rag to buff the surface to an even color; making sure you wipe with grain.

Best Luck!

- CaptainKlutz


Should they strip the poly first? and sanding parquet with the grain, that’s going to take a while.

View MiniMe's profile

MiniMe

444 posts in 1543 days


#10 posted 05-23-2022 11:52 PM

Thanks for the reply guys!
I will take some time to digest the above and get back to you
After briefly reading the above I am inclined to try to either take some stein off by sanding from the more intense spots or if the area with less stain is smaller then sand that enough to remove the poly finish and apply more stain there
We tried to follow the directions the best we could. I might have had too little conditioner
Here are the products we bought from the “borg” as you call it
stain base: https://www.homedepot.ca/search?q=678885206659#!q=678885206659
wood conditioner https://www.homedepot.ca/product/behr-transparent-water-based-interior-pre-stain-wood-conditioner-clear-946ml/1001623440
Poly coat https://www.homedepot.ca/product/behr-fast-drying-water-based-polyurethane-satin-946ml/1001623475 (mine is B8500 but it does not show up on their site not sure why -UPC 678885211165 )

View northwoodsman's profile

northwoodsman

1148 posts in 5238 days


#11 posted 05-24-2022 12:04 AM

Can you ever give parquet a modern look? It’s more about the pattern than the color when it comes to parquet in my opinion. The color looks like a very close match to what you chose. I don’t think you have enough wood left to go over it again with a floor sander. If you have the skill to sand, stain, and seal a floor like this I would certainly think that you would have the ability to install a new one. Just a thought. You would have a real good idea of the final outcome before you even started.

-- NorthWoodsMan

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

4492 posts in 3290 days


#12 posted 05-24-2022 12:45 AM

Just I case you didn’t know Borg stands for Big Overpriced Retail Giant. America will be assimilated :(

-- Aj

View MiniMe's profile

MiniMe

444 posts in 1543 days


#13 posted 05-24-2022 01:07 AM

Here is a picture showing the sanded floor
I would think it is pretty good and the old finish was removed

PS: I wanted to use the Home depot vacuum but ..this is what happens when wife gets involved :-D. Her tool is better …She knows and you can’t argue or you sleep in the garage
the walls are next, to be painted the color is not the color I would put on a basement wall
left side is a Manfrotto supporting a work light ..the light in that room is also going to be upgraded so we could not use it

View Ofinthsnset's profile

Ofinthsnset

2732 posts in 1218 days


#14 posted 05-24-2022 01:19 AM

I think the floor was sanded more than good enough.
The problem was the type of stain, hard to use like I said above.

Here is another train of thought.
If you’re going to sand it again, do the whole floor, you’re not going to spot sand it and have it come out any better, it’s still going to be blotchy and you’re going to spend a lot of extra time and labor.

I would re-sand the floor and then look into a product like this.
https://www.bona.com/en-us/products/professional/coatings/waterborne-sealers/bona-nordicseal-3x1ga/
It’s made for floors and gives the floor a tint as you’re sealing it. Find a dealer and then talk to them about it. I think it’s your best bet for a whitewashed floor.

Just my opinion.

View Hammerthumb's profile

Hammerthumb

3162 posts in 3467 days


#15 posted 05-24-2022 02:24 AM



I think the floor was sanded more than good enough.
The problem was the type of stain, hard to use like I said above.

Here is another train of thought.
If you re going to sand it again, do the whole floor, you re not going to spot sand it and have it come out any better, it s still going to be blotchy and you re going to spend a lot of extra time and labor.

I would re-sand the floor and then look into a product like this.
https://www.bona.com/en-us/products/professional/coatings/waterborne-sealers/bona-nordicseal-3x1ga/
It s made for floors and gives the floor a tint as you re sealing it. Find a dealer and then talk to them about it. I think it s your best bet for a whitewashed floor.

Just my opinion.

- LeeRoyMan

Lee Roy is right. Contact a flooring distributor and ask for info on floor products. I will also agree with others about using water based stains for color. Easiest is to use a oil based stain if using water based finish coats. Water based stains will “pull” when applying water based top coats and give uneven appearance.
I did a restaurant with a green water based stain many years ago and had the same problem. The solution was an oil based sealer over the stain prior to water based finish. Changed the color slightly, but made the customer happy.

-- Paul, Duvall, WA

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