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Forum topic by countryroad posted 05-16-2022 12:39 PM 424 views 0 times favorited 25 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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countryroad

12 posts in 45 days


05-16-2022 12:39 PM

i just picked up a PM66 table saw. the biesemeyer fence that’s on it does not look like it matches the rails. and the factory fence has been cut for some odd reason. what options do i have if i want to put a new fence\rail system on it?


25 replies so far

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

9044 posts in 3691 days


#1 posted 05-16-2022 12:43 PM

There is nothing wrong with your fence(s). One is a standard length [1], another appears to be cut down and could have been done for any number of reasons.

PS: The cut down one is not a factory fence – it’s a Biesemeyer as well

Cheers,
Brad

[1] Standard length was 42” for 8” and 10” saws, 48” for 12” and 14” saws. Otherwise they were identical.

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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countryroad

12 posts in 45 days


#2 posted 05-16-2022 04:11 PM



There is nothing wrong with your fence(s). One is a standard length [1], another appears to be cut down and could have been done for any number of reasons.

PS: The cut down one is not a factory fence – it s a Biesemeyer as well.

The white biese does not clamp to the rail unless you fold that flap up underneath it and even then it does not clamp well at all.

Cheers,
Brad

[1] Standard length was 42” for 8” and 10” saws, 48” for 12” and 14” saws. Otherwise they were identical.

- MrUnix


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MrUnix

9044 posts in 3691 days


#3 posted 05-16-2022 04:52 PM

The white biese does not clamp to the rail unless you fold that flap up underneath it and even then it does not clamp well at all.

They are fully adjustable… have you tried adjusting it? Have a manual? If not, go over to the vintagemachinery site and download one, such as this one. You may also have worn down pads which need to be replaced. Compare it to your other fence to see what it needs. Good news is those are free and you can get them at any big box store (HD/Lowes).

Post a picture of the locking mechanism so we can see what you got.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

5736 posts in 2986 days


#4 posted 05-16-2022 05:02 PM

- Long white fence head looks to be from a larger 12/14” TS, that uses the longer 48” head. Long 12/14” TS fences look ‘odd’ on a 10” TS model, without an large out feed table in back.

- If fence head does not clamp properly to the front rail, then likely have some missing or damaged components. It’s the joy of buying used. It was removed from service for a reason?
There are ‘wear’ glide pads on fence head, and movable plate that is part of rail clamping mechanism. Clamping issues are usually result of worn out glide pads. Earliest versions used Formica laminate bonded with epoxy. Newer models use a molded plastic pad (likely Delrin). In extreme cases of ham fisted fence abuse, the pivoting rail clamp piece holding the glide pad can/will be bent/damaged/missing. Comparing your fence head parts to the parts list in Delta Biesemeyer documentation usually clarifies issues with pivot bar.

- There is nothing magical about Biesemeyer type t-square fence. They can be shortened, lengthened, and modified in many ways. Living only a few miles from Mesa Arizona home of Biesemeyer, before Delta bought the company; I see all kinds of custom length Biesemeyer parts. It’s not uncommon to find 4ft fence rail on machines dedicated for cross cutting, and 8-12ft fences on machines used for sheet goods. Biesemeyer produced custom sized fence heads and rails in any size the customer required. Have seen 60” long fence heads for largest TS, and they were so heavy, it was no fun to slide down the front rail.
This DIY PDF shows just how simple the fence design is, and should give you some ideas or solutions to solve your fence issues.

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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countryroad

12 posts in 45 days


#5 posted 05-17-2022 03:39 AM

this one is not adjustable. the wear guides are gone but if they were there it would not even begin to clamp.


this pic is the only way to get it to clamp down at all


The white biese does not clamp to the rail unless you fold that flap up underneath it and even then it does not clamp well at all.

They are fully adjustable… have you tried adjusting it? Have a manual? If not, go over to the vintagemachinery site and download one, such as this one. You may also have worn down pads which need to be replaced. Compare it to your other fence to see what it needs. Good news is those are free and you can get them at any big box store (HD/Lowes).

Post a picture of the locking mechanism so we can see what you got.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix


View countryroad's profile

countryroad

12 posts in 45 days


#6 posted 05-17-2022 03:42 AM

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

9044 posts in 3691 days


#7 posted 05-17-2022 04:02 AM

That fence looks just fine… of course, if you just want to throw money at the machine for a new fence, it’s your cash. The Biesemeyer fence you are considering buying is inferrior to what you have IMO, and you will probably have to do some drilling or other modifications to get it to bolt up.

As for your current fence – Looks like you are missing the wear pads as well as the adjusting screws. Easy fix.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

5736 posts in 2986 days


#8 posted 05-17-2022 09:51 AM

+1 That fence looks fine. AND IT IS ADJUSTABLE.

Last time I bought Delta 1350051S replacements for Biesemeyer fence T pads, they were ~$8 each, and they were back ordered at Delta due Covid supply issues. Hard to wait 10 weeks to get a set. Just noticed the price is double. :( Still cheaper than a new fence.

There is different PN for pad on the flap you show pushed out of way. If your model doesn’t have holes for pad, then it was glued in place.

FWIW – The earliest fences used Formica laminate pads glued down with white industrial epoxy for ALL the glide pads. Scuff up both surfaces with 60 grit and JB weld works same. Can get FREE Formica/WilsonArt laminate COLOR samples from big box stores in custom kitchen cabinet section. One sample color chip makes two glide pads. Cost to repair that fence with laminate will be ~$7 for fresh supply of JB weld. My local big box stores are always out of white or off while laminate samples like color Biesemeyer used? Any color with textured surface works perfect. lol

When folks continue to abuse the fence with missing glide pads, the oblong clamp surface on head can get worn down. Using 2 pads stacked together would often be the solution to negate the damage. Your clamp looks fine, and single layer on pivot should be perfect.
The newer molded plastic glide pads are thicker than laminate, suggest gluing 2 stacked pieces of laminate on back of fence head, if you choose to use laminate.

Cheers!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View countryroad's profile

countryroad

12 posts in 45 days


#9 posted 05-17-2022 10:45 AM

If you go back and read my post. I say numerous times the fence will not lock down tight. If you add thickness by adding the wear pads or the adjustment screw then it will not lock up at all. I don’t know any other to keep saying the fence will not lock down to the rails. But everyone here says that fine lol. I like to lock my fence down not have if free floating while I’m making a cut.


That fence looks just fine… of course, if you just want to throw money at the machine for a new fence, it s your cash. The Biesemeyer fence you are considering buying is inferrior to what you have IMO, and you will probably have to do some drilling or other modifications to get it to bolt up.

As for your current fence – Looks like you are missing the wear pads as well as the adjusting screws. Easy fix.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix


View countryroad's profile

countryroad

12 posts in 45 days


#10 posted 05-17-2022 10:48 AM

If it will not lock down now. How will adding thickness to it make it work? Please go back and read were I say it will not lock down tight the way it is. You would have to take thickness away from it to make it work.


+1 That fence looks fine. AND IT IS ADJUSTABLE.

Last time I bought Delta 1350051S replacements for Biesemeyer fence T pads, they were ~$8 each, and they were back ordered at Delta due Covid supply issues. Hard to wait 10 weeks to get a set. Just noticed the price is double. :( Still cheaper than a new fence.

There is different PN for pad on the flap you show pushed out of way. If your model doesn t have holes for pad, then it was glued in place.

FWIW – The earliest fences used Formica laminate pads glued down with white industrial epoxy for ALL the glide pads. Scuff up both surfaces with 60 grit and JB weld works same. Can get FREE Formica/WilsonArt laminate COLOR samples from big box stores in custom kitchen cabinet section. One sample color chip makes two glide pads. Cost to repair that fence with laminate will be ~$7 for fresh supply of JB weld. My local big box stores are always out of white or off while laminate samples like color Biesemeyer used? Any color with textured surface works perfect. lol

When folks continue to abuse the fence with missing glide pads, the oblong clamp surface on head can get worn down. Using 2 pads stacked together would often be the solution to negate the damage. Your clamp looks fine, and single layer on pivot should be perfect.
The newer molded plastic glide pads are thicker than laminate, suggest gluing 2 stacked pieces of laminate on back of fence head, if you choose to use laminate.

Cheers!

- CaptainKlutz


View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

9044 posts in 3691 days


#11 posted 05-17-2022 01:20 PM

Put the two fences side by side and compare the differences. What is different between the one that works and the one that doesn’t? I can’t imagine this has anything other than a simple fix.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View yamato72's profile

yamato72

57 posts in 447 days


#12 posted 05-17-2022 01:24 PM


If you go back and read my post. I say numerous times the fence will not lock down tight. If you add thickness by adding the wear pads or the adjustment screw then it will not lock up at all. I don t know any other to keep saying the fence will not lock down to the rails. But everyone here says that fine lol.

Does the shorty fence lock down to your satisfaction? The components should be identical – maybe stare and compare the operation and the two sets of components, and get the head on the long fence working with parts from the shorty?

View countryroad's profile

countryroad

12 posts in 45 days


#13 posted 05-17-2022 05:04 PM

Me and a friend of mine tried that. The short fence works perfectly. I tried switching the handles and it got worse.

If you go back and read my post. I say numerous times the fence will not lock down tight. If you add thickness by adding the wear pads or the adjustment screw then it will not lock up at all. I don t know any other to keep saying the fence will not lock down to the rails. But everyone here says that fine lol.

Does the shorty fence lock down to your satisfaction? The components should be identical – maybe stare and compare the operation and the two sets of components, and get the head on the long fence working with parts from the shorty?

- yamato72


View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

9044 posts in 3691 days


#14 posted 05-17-2022 06:04 PM

At least you have the short one so you can use it while you figure out the other one. It would be like a European style fence that only goes to the front of the blade. Much safer and reduces kickbacks to near zero. See this article in Popluar Woodworking: Table Saws: Why the British Think We’re Crazy

In the mean time… make some measurements so you can figure out what the difference between the two are, and why one works and the other doesn’t.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View yamato72's profile

yamato72

57 posts in 447 days


#15 posted 05-17-2022 06:09 PM

Are we looking at the long fence or the shorty in this pic?

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