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Newbie questions on finishing walnut

2K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by  OSU55 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I have recently begun acquiring woodworking tools for my new hobby (woodworking, of course). Having purchased a 6" jointer and a 12" planer I've dimensioned some rough 8/4 walnut I purchased from a local wood store into usable boards. I've managed to assemble the baords into a triangular table top 23" on a side. However, I have some sanding and finish questions.

Here is the table top in question at its current state:

Table Furniture Outdoor furniture Desk Rectangle


1) The boards used to make the table top were all dimensioned together, and so the variance between the boards at the glue joints is only about .003 inch max (a thin sheet of paper). However, they table top will still need some sanding to remove these minor offsets and other imperfections. I have not yet purchased a drum sander, and if I had it would likely not be large enough for this table top. I have an orbital sander; would this be an appropriate tool for the final sanding finish, or do I need something like a belt sander that would sand only with the grain? Also, what sanding grit would you recommend?

2) I want to match the finish of an existing, store-bought walnut table that we have. It appears to be a clear coat of some sort; maybe a lacquer? Can anyone suggest a finish with a similar appearance that a home user could easily apply?

Here is the table top finish I am trying to match:

Rectangle Table Wood Oval Flooring


Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Beuford
 

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#2 ·
For leveling the top, an ros can work ok if the board edges are as close as you say - a few thou. Watch for sqiggly pigtails that an ros will generate when a piece of grit gets caught in the paper. Finish by sanding with the grain with the final grit. Recommend you introduce yourself to a hand plane for final leveling and finish prep. That was my solution years ago. You can prep any size surface with one. I due finish sanding with 220 or 320, by hand, after smoothing the surface with a plane, unless I want the "tooled surface" look.

Drum sanders work pretty well also, but are more expensive to buy and own, and you definitely need a dust collection system for one, not a shop vac. An ros works fine with a shop vac and of course a hand plane doesnt need any.

The finish question is a rabbit hole I wont go down here. Its broad and deep. A newbie trying to match an existing finish - I hope you have a lot of scrap of the same wood to learn and expirement on. Recommend you give up on matching and just try to get a nice finish, much easier.
 
#3 ·
After sanding it smooth, as per OSU55 and, realizing that matching a store bought piece is an exercise in frustration, I'd use clear Watco. A couple coats allowed to dry well and lightly sanded after each coat, followed by a finish coat of your preference. Lacquer, shellac or, a poly.
 
#4 ·
The random orbital sander will work just fine for what you're trying to do. No sander is meant to be held in one place or it will dig into whatever the project is. Keep it moving and you should reduce or eliminate the sanding marks. If you can't get a mark out then you may need to go to a lower grit to get it out and then start going up.

I can't tell you what's "right" but I can tell you whatever works for you and lets you sleep at night is fine. Personally, I usually start with 120 grit and work my way up to 320 or 400 depending on the project. Again, for my projects, once I've gotten to whatever the final grit is going to be, a wipe down with a damp paper towel or rag to raise the grain then let it dry and a final sand one last quick time with the same grit makes a difference in both the feel and application of the finish.

I've played with a couple finishes on walnut but a lot of what I've been doing is on my lathe and I can friction finish that. Watco is a good finish, you could also do a shellac (reg or amber) and I've had really nice luck using Arm R Seal on just about everything I've put it on. One thing I've done that helps me immensely is to fully finish sand some scraps and try different finishes and layers of finishes together on the scrap. Just make sure to use a little painters tape on the back of it to write down what you did so you can reproduce it that way. I don't have to try and remember what techniques and finishes I use that way.
 
#5 ·
Well, I've been at this hobby now for over 20 years, and I consider myself intermediate to advanced in terms of experience. Not the expert. That said:

I've never had great success using a sander to level boards at joint lines, particularly on something as large as a table top. At this instant, I'm sitting at my dining table seeing the sun reflect unevenly along gradual dips in the top surface where twelve years ago I tried to use a random orbit sander to do just about what you describe.

By no means would I use a belt sander for the task. They're simply too aggressive, and it's easy to dig yourself into a hole with them. I do use belt sanders from time to time, but it's way earlier in the process of rough prep of the stock.

Instead, I'd use a card scraper along those joint lines to get them more even. If you're not familiar with scrapers, do a search on YouTube with some phrase like "use a card scraper". They're not hard, and they are a finesse tool that is capable of smoothing out uneven joints.

As regards a finish, agree with the others that matching the store bought finish will be difficult. For a table that is likely to see active use in a living room or similar place, I'd opt for a satin finish wipe-on polyurethane, several coats.
 
#6 ·
Table looks nice. Did you make the base too?

I would also use a card scraper rather than ROS or belt sander. I assume you don't want to buy a scaper plane, which would also work. In my very amateur opinion, at this point in a project of this size, I would stick to manual techniques like a scraper or just hand sanding.

As far as finish, test scraps are gonna be your friend. You need to get the tone right first and that means testing a few options. A can of spray lacquer or water-based poly will not add much of a golden hue, whereas other options will. Shellac is extremely easy to work with, but getting a film finish like your other table may be a challenge. Remember, your tables won't be side-by-side, so it doesn't need to be a perfect match either.

Last bit of general advice to a newer woodworker is to accept any flaws as the mark of a craftmade product. They all have them and nobody but their maker thinks badly of them. That table looks pretty darn good to me.

JD
 
#7 ·
Random orbital sanders are great, but just like every tool, you need to learn how to use them properly or disaster looms.

Start with 80 grit. Start the sander AWAY from the work piece. Place the sander in one corner, and go bottom to top and come away. go back to bottom but a half sander over, and go bottom to top. repeat until you have done the whole surface this way, go back and do side to side in exactly the same way.
DO NOT move it randomly at any time! Do not "just go back over this bit" as ROS sanders are very aggressive and that will just give you hills and valleys all over the place.
If you dont do this step, you are just sanding with the sand dust of the previous grit size.
Repeat the above with 120 grit. Once done, Remove ALL of the dust and go again with 180.
Once more with 240, and you will have a satin smooth top.

Just to stress the point, The sander does the random bit, NOT the operator!
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
I agree with osu55 on using a hand plane, a smoother number 4 or 5 (properly tuned up) to level the surfaces. Because your new at this I recommend a Lie Neilson or Veritas plane which usually only require honing the edge to get good results. As for the finish I recommend Liberon Furniture oil. It's my go to finish for walnut and mahogany. 4-5 coats applied with 0000 steel wool then after 10 minutes wipe off each coat. This product gets a nice, natural luster. You can keep adding coats till you get a high gloss finish if you want that. liberon oil is not as durable as polyethylene would be but it's also easily repairable if it should ever stare showing wear. What ever else you do, practice the finish on scrap pieces. Many a very nice project has bee ruined by applying an untested finish
 
#10 ·
Beuford,

Another vote for a card scraper to even out the joints. If the grain on the boards are not going the same direction you risk tearout if you use a plane. If your plane is not sharp you may also get tearout so test on a piece of scrap.

Do sample boards. Let me say it one more time with feeling, do sample boards.

I'd start with these in various combinations: Watco Danish Oil, Zinser seal coat, satin lacquer. You may need to hit the final top coat with 0000 steel wool.

BTW, table looks very nice - you got this - can't wait to see the project post!
 
#11 ·
For leveling the top, an ros can work ok if the board edges are as close as you say - a few thou.
Yes, it's that close. I was kind of surprised how uniform the boards came out. It seems machine setup is crucial, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist. Here is the result across the largest offset:

Scale Product Gauge Measuring instrument Barometer


The finish question is a rabbit hole I wont go down here. Its broad and deep. A newbie trying to match an existing finish - I hope you have a lot of scrap of the same wood to learn and expirement on. Recommend you give up on matching and just try to get a nice finish, much easier.
I agree; I'm not looking for an exact match, just something close enough that it won't stand out. The pieces from Charleston Forge are advertised as having a "...clear coat finish only…" on their walnut offerings, but gives no further details. I was going to try Deft clear lacquer in a spray can, but the existing pieces have a slight "yellowing" that I don't think a clear lacquer would provide.

Thank you for your suggestions.

Beuford
 

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#12 ·
Personally, I usually start with 120 grit and work my way up to 320 or 400 depending on the project. Again, for my projects, once I ve gotten to whatever the final grit is going to be, a wipe down with a damp paper towel or rag to raise the grain then let it dry and a final sand one last quick time with the same grit makes a difference in both the feel and application of the finish.

I ve played with a couple finishes on walnut but a lot of what I ve been doing is on my lathe and I can friction finish that. Watco is a good finish, you could also do a shellac (reg or amber) and I ve had really nice luck using Arm R Seal on just about everything I ve put it on. One thing I ve done that helps me immensely is to fully finish sand some scraps and try different finishes and layers of finishes together on the scrap. Just make sure to use a little painters tape on the back of it to write down what you did so you can reproduce it that way. I don t have to try and remember what techniques and finishes I use that way.

- bugradx2
Thank you for the suggestions. I figure a lot of scrap samples are in order. I'll post the samples as I go.

Beuford
 
#13 · (Edited by Moderator)
Instead, I'd use a card scraper along those joint lines to get them more even. If you re not familiar with scrapers, do a search on YouTube with some phrase like "use a card scraper". They re not hard, and they are a finesse tool that is capable of smoothing out uneven joints.https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/317077#
I'll look into card scrapers. Never heard of them, but it sounds like something I could use - if not now, later.

Thanks,

Beuford
 
#14 ·
Table looks nice. Did you make the base too?
Yes. Started my hobby with metalwork/welding, then added wood to the list of needed skills.

I would also use a card scraper rather than ROS or belt sander. I assume you don t want to buy a scaper plane, which would also work. In my very amateur opinion, at this point in a project of this size, I would stick to manual techniques like a scraper or just hand sanding.
At this point I might just try block sanding. I've got plenty of wood depth to correct any mistakes…

A can of spray lacquer or water-based poly will not add much of a golden hue, whereas other options will.
The existing pieces do have a bit of a golden hue; not sure how (or if I want) to replicate.

Last bit of general advice to a newer woodworker is to accept any flaws as the mark of a craftmade product. They all have them and nobody but their maker thinks badly of them. That table looks pretty darn good to me.
Thanks!

Beuford
 
#15 ·
Random orbital sanders are great, but just like every tool, you need to learn how to use them properly or disaster looms.

Start with 80 grit. Start the sander AWAY from the work piece. Place the sander in one corner, and go bottom to top and come away. go back to bottom but a half sander over, and go bottom to top. repeat until you have done the whole surface this way, go back and do side to side in exactly the same way.
DO NOT move it randomly at any time! Do not "just go back over this bit" as ROS sanders are very aggressive and that will just give you hills and valleys all over the place.
If you dont do this step, you are just sanding with the sand dust of the previous grit size.
Repeat the above with 120 grit. Once done, Remove ALL of the dust and go again with 180.
Once more with 240, and you will have a satin smooth top.

Just to stress the point, The sander does the random bit, NOT the operator!

- sunnybob
Thank you for the ROS use advise. But could I just block sand it at this point and prevent the possible ROS issues? It's pretty darn flat/even now, and I figure the less sanding the better. I'm assuming that the same grit regimen for ROS would work for block sanding?

Beuford
 
#16 ·
I agree with osu55 on using a hand plane, a smoother number 4 or 5 (properly tuned up) to level the surfaces. Because your new at this I recommend a Lie Neilson or Veritas plane which usually only require honing the edge to get good results. As for the finish I recommend Liberon Furniture oil. It s my go to finish for walnut and mahogany. 4-5 coats applied with 0000 steel wool then after 10 minutes wipe off each coat. This product gets a nice, natural luster. You can keep adding coats till you get a high gloss finish if you want that. liberon oil is not as durable as polyethylene would be but it s also easily repairable if it should ever stare showing wear. What ever else you do, practice the finish on scrap pieces. Many a very nice project has bee ruined by applying an untested finish

- Ken Masco
Will have to investigate scrapers and smoothers. Not sure yet what they are/do. Been too busy acquiring power tools to recognize I need hand tools as well.

I like the idea of an oil finish, but I don't think it will match the existing pieces. They have a hard finish, more like a lacquer or poly. But I'll use my scraps to test a few finishes and we'll see; I'll post pics as I go.

Thanks,

Beuford
 
#17 · (Edited by Moderator)
For dust collection on a drum sander, a large shop vac will work if coupled with a mini dust gorilla and five gallon bucket. I use that on my 19/38 sander with good results. I will be connecting to my dc system in the future though.

- ibewjon
Have a dust collection system; don't have a large drum sander. On my list, but they seem to be expensive - even when used.

I might see if a local wood shop will run it through their drum sander for me. If the cost is low that might be feasible. It won't take too many passes in its current condition.

Thanks,

Beuford
 
#18 ·
If your plane is not sharp you may also get tearout so test on a piece of scrap.
I found that out machine planing the individual boards; direction of feed was critical. However, I expected them to be close enough when glued to require only sanding, so I organized the final grain pattern for appearance rather than subsequent planing.

Do sample boards. Let me say it one more time with feeling, do sample boards.
Often repeated; I think I've got the point… ;)

BTW, table looks very nice - you got this - can t wait to see the project post!
Thanks!

Beuford
 
#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
Beuford,

Another vote for a card scraper to even out the joints. If the grain on the boards are not going the same direction you risk tearout if you use a plane. If your plane is not sharp you may also get tearout so test on a piece of scrap.

- CL810
Recommendation was for future projects, not needed on this one with the boards that close. While tearout can happen with a plane, proper tool selection (iron cutting angle, chip breaker prep and setting, sharp irons ) and use alleviates those concerns.

For leveling the top, an ros can work ok if the board edges are as close as you say - a few thou.

Yes, it s that close. I was kind of surprised how uniform the boards came out. It seems machine setup is crucial, but I m a bit of a perfectionist. Here is the result across the largest offset:

The finish question is a rabbit hole I wont go down here. Its broad and deep. A newbie trying to match an existing finish - I hope you have a lot of scrap of the same wood to learn and expirement on. Recommend you give up on matching and just try to get a nice finish, much easier.

I agree; I m not looking for an exact match, just something close enough that it won t stand out. The pieces from Charleston Forge are advertised as having a "...clear coat finish only…" on their walnut offerings, but gives no further details. I was going to try Deft clear lacquer in a spray can, but the existing pieces have a slight "yellowing" that I don t think a clear lacquer would provide.

Thank you for your suggestions.

Beuford

- Beuford
In another post you mentioned block sanding, and yes that would work very well and not pose some of the problems that comes with an ros. It is a bit more labor.

Any box store solvent lacquer is nitrocellulose (NC), which will yellow with time. Be aware that NC lacuer is somewhat soft, not very abrasion resistant, and not very chemical resistant. Your store bought table is probably a conversion varnish, might be a catalyzed lacquer, and could be a waterbased finish, though not one easily found. You can buy pre-cat lacquer in a spray can, I think from Mohawk. Pre-cat is much tougher than plain NC lacquer.

For the diy'r, plain old poly is pretty hard to beat once its on. It does have its application problems, but they aren't insurmountable. Can certainly give you some tips if you decide you want to go that way. You can look through my LJ's projects - finish types are included in most of the descriptions.
 
#21 ·
Walnut is an open grain wood, which means it has obvious pores. If you are going for a smooth, tightly sealed surface, you'll need to fill the pores with a filler. Sometimes walnut is filled with a dark (even black) filler. I recommend a water-based polyacrylic for the final coating.
 
#23 · (Edited by Moderator)
Seems like I got a very good result on my very first sample!

Light block sanding with the grain using 150 grit, then 4 coats of Deft spray semi-gloss clear lacquer. Just wiped between the first three coats; used fine bronze wool and compressed air between the 3rd and 4th coat. Actual unfinished tabletop is in the background; sample in foreground.

Brown Wood Rectangle Flooring Floor


No quite as "yellow" as the existing pieces, but very close overall - particularly in sheen and general appearance. I actually like the less-yellow finish a bit better (and so does the wife).

I'm putting a few more coats on (planning on 6) to see if anything changes.

Beuford
 

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#24 · (Edited by Moderator)
Seems like I got a very good result on my very first sample!

Light block sanding with the grain using 150 grit, then 4 coats of Deft spray semi-gloss clear lacquer. Just wiped between the first three coats; used fine bronze wool and compressed air between the 3rd and 4th coat. Actual unfinished tabletop is in the background; sample in foreground.
Actually, upon closer look there are visible sanding marks. 150 grit is too coarse. I'll make another sample with a finer course of sanding grits. Also, the wife liked the finish best after only 3 coats of lacquer (left more grain texture; the 4th and subsequent coats filled more of the grain pores).

Beuford
 
#25 ·
Just sayin', if the top will be used nc lacquer is a poor choice, low abrasion/scratch resistance. If its decorative and wont have "stuff" sat on it, moved around, etc it will work.

NC will yellow with time, months/years, not days. Wont match for a while and may never. No need to sand or abrade lacquer between coats unless it has some good sized defects. Solvent lacquer burns in, ie the new coat partially melts the previous, becoming one. A day After final coat a light swipe of sandpaer will show how flat/smooth it is. If good, let sit min 30 days in the warm house to let it fully cure, then do final rub out.
 
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