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Forum topic by Bob posted 01-27-2022 12:53 AM 568 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Bob

22 posts in 3006 days


01-27-2022 12:53 AM

Topic tags/keywords: question

Hello,

I just moved my Powermatic PM2200 dust collection outside of my shop in a covered port. Does anyone know if I need to keep using the bags for the fine dust particles or can I just place a bucket below?

I am wondering if the bag creates suction or anything—your input is appreciated

Cheers

Bob

-- Bob


17 replies so far

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

9602 posts in 2847 days


#1 posted 01-27-2022 04:13 AM

I say try it and see. It is possible that the cyclone action relies on a certain amount of back pressure from the filter and bag to work effectively. On the other hand, if it is outside, you may not care; plus, with less back pressure, it may also give you better suction, which is a bonus.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

7481 posts in 3953 days


#2 posted 01-27-2022 11:29 AM

It’s on the outlet side of the blower, so you’re good to go. The bucket (unless it’s connected to the filter) won’t do anything, the debris will fly all over the place. Be aware, it will decrease back pressure and could (maybe) allow the motor to draw a few to many amps….so iId check the current draw. If you remove the bag, you may as well remove the filter, nothing will go through it. But to your question: no, the bag doesn’t create suction, it might limit it slightly. That said, why do you want to eliminate it? It shouldn’t be catching that much dust anyway.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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Knockonit

1236 posts in 1661 days


#3 posted 01-27-2022 11:58 AM

use the bag other wise as fred mentioned

-- Living the dream

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

12609 posts in 4888 days


#4 posted 01-27-2022 12:06 PM

I eliminated the useless bags from my HF 2HP DC. Debris went first to a 35 Gal trash can with a plastic vortex lid then, directly outside. The trash can caught the chunks and most of the dust. Minimal dust went outside.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

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controlfreak

3747 posts in 1061 days


#5 posted 01-27-2022 12:54 PM

As long as the dust doesn’t get pulled into the motor I don’t see a problem. The problem I do see is if you heat or cool your shop space. A vacuum can quickly remove a lot of air.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

2939 posts in 4252 days


#6 posted 01-27-2022 02:06 PM

And if you heat with a gas heater, you can also pull carbon monoxide into your shop, unless it is sealed combustion.

View Robert's profile

Robert

4989 posts in 2940 days


#7 posted 01-27-2022 02:29 PM

I don’t see the collection bag as much as an issue. Try it and see.

Before I ever heard about the amp draw thing , I vented my blower outside and have worked in blissful ignorance for 5 years. I’ve heard people talk about this, but never seen any actual proof. My mind is open.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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Robert

4989 posts in 2940 days


#8 posted 01-27-2022 02:29 PM

double post

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Albert's profile

Albert

565 posts in 5049 days


#9 posted 01-27-2022 02:42 PM

I’ve had mine outside for about 10 years with no bag and no problem, I direct the dust through a 4” plastic tube about 40 feet and blow it into some woods where it piles up eventually to be used as mulch or compost.

View Bob's profile

Bob

22 posts in 3006 days


#10 posted 01-27-2022 04:10 PM

Thank you all so much, what a wonderful group!

-- Bob

View JAAune's profile

JAAune

2134 posts in 3776 days


#11 posted 01-28-2022 02:37 AM

First, I’ll warn that the info below needs to be verified (preferably by testing with an amp meter) since I’m going by memory.

I believe that dust collector amp draw increases when there is more air volume around the impeller and decreases as air volume decreases. So removing the filters will reduce amp draw. Running dirty filters will increase amp draw. Closing blast gates will decrease amp draw. Removing all ductwork and leaving the cyclone mouth wide open will increase amp draw and possibly overheat the motor.

The above refers to typical cyclone dust collectors and not shop vacs which rely upon airflow from the hose to cool the motor.

-- See my work at http://altaredesign.com

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

7481 posts in 3953 days


#12 posted 01-28-2022 11:30 AM


So removing the filters will reduce amp draw. Running dirty filters will increase amp draw.
- JAAune

Those 2 points are reversed. Removing the filters will allow the blower to move more air, and increase the load on the motor. Similarly, clogged filters reduce the amount of air the blower can move and decrease the load on the motor.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

3038 posts in 3449 days


#13 posted 01-28-2022 01:30 PM

Long as you dont heat or cool your shop it works great. If the breaker does trip due to increased amps you can either address the increased electric load, or add a bit of restriction, like a partially opened blast gate, in the main line to the DC to reduce air volume until the amps drop enough to not trip. Dont put the filter and bag back on, that defeats the purpose (requires maintenance).

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

9602 posts in 2847 days


#14 posted 01-28-2022 03:11 PM

If you do find need to reduce the amps, I would probably add the restriction on the filter or outbound side so you don’t create a bottleneck where the most chips are flowing.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View JAAune's profile

JAAune

2134 posts in 3776 days


#15 posted 01-28-2022 03:35 PM

I will probably test it later this year since we’re planning to exhaust outside after the furnace is replaced (new furnace uses outside air for combustion). The DC is run off a VFD so it’s easy to test.

The theory is that dirty filters increase air volume around the impeller (increases resistance) and requires more power to rotate at the same RPM. This is referenced in the linked thread by Will Blick.

https://sawmillcreek.org/archive/index.php/t-61372.html

Since the info I’ve read is conflicting the only safe approach is to test amp draw and see what really happens.

-- See my work at http://altaredesign.com

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