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Double Square - What Graduation? 4r, 16r, MM?

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Forum topic by PatrickIrish posted 01-19-2022 11:09 PM 651 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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PatrickIrish

167 posts in 3505 days


01-19-2022 11:09 PM

I’m looking to add a Double Square to make quick measuring of small objects easier than using a tape measure.

I’m not the best with fractions and thought a MM double square might be better.

What is everyone’s thoughts?

Here is a 4R graduation from PEC.


11 replies so far

View HarveyM's profile

HarveyM

164 posts in 3482 days


#1 posted 01-20-2022 12:28 AM

I find mm easier, but work in both, depending. The catch is once you start a project it’s best to do all the measurements in that scale. So I have metric tape measures, rulers and squares.

-- Just a Duffer

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Foghorn

1522 posts in 846 days


#2 posted 01-20-2022 12:48 AM

Being in Canada I’m ambidextrous (multidextrous?) with measurements be they metric, USA or Imperial. Working in thousandths is very similar to working in metric. Metric is the easiest by far for the most part but it depends on what you normally use for plans, materials etc.

-- Darrel

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SMP

5313 posts in 1365 days


#3 posted 01-20-2022 12:56 AM

Depends on whose plans you are following and what scales they use. I like the 4r personally since I mainly use 1/8 or 1/16th scale. Anything finer is more for machining.

But lately have been following some English and some Japanese woodworkers so my last couple projects have been in mm, and I actually need to get a shaku sashigane for some other projects.

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Mike

39 posts in 1902 days


#4 posted 01-20-2022 04:20 AM

I also work in both metric and imperial and started using a Kreg Multimark some time ago. It has become by far the one measuring tool I reach for most. It has scales in easy to ready whole mm on one side and 16th’s on the other so you can choose one or the other or convert between and actually see the gradation marks. I only use it in the 0 deg position – extending straight forward, if I need 90 or 45 deg, I’ll use a square. I find this thumb operated position intuitive, one handed and apron friendly. The 3/16” reveal, angled positions and level features were useless to me and because the thing felt and looked plasticky, I used the blade, thumb knob, insert and made my own tool out of maple. I made it precisely 1/2” thick x1-1/2 wide x 6” long and because the blade is 1”wide, I have 4 setup positions plus internal measuring up to 10-1/2”. It is accurate enough to use as an adjustable length square as well.

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brtech

1216 posts in 4382 days


#5 posted 01-20-2022 03:30 PM

although I have done a few projects in mm, most of what I do is in fractions. I have enough metric measurement tools to get by, but, as I have admitted before, I am a square junkie and most, but not all of my squares are fractional.

But I came here to suggest you look at the LV double square instead of the PEC. I have a PEC, and I use it because it has a 6” blade, but the LV 4” is a much nicer tool. It’s always in my apron pocket and it’s just a wonderful thing in the hand. The PEC is nice, the LV is super great.

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Ocelot

3808 posts in 4097 days


#6 posted 01-20-2022 05:23 PM



[...]
But lately have been following some [...] Japanese woodworkers so my last couple projects have been in mm, and I actually need to get a shaku sashigane for some other projects.

- SMP

I have a shaku tape measure. Lots of fun to lend to folks. The shaku is very close to our foot and a bu is very close to 1/8”, but there are 10 sun in a shaku so it’s like an engineering scale with 1/10th of ft.
I also have a japanese chamfer plane which has scales in bu and mm.

-- I intended to be a woodworker, but turned into a tool and lumber collector.

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Ocelot

3808 posts in 4097 days


#7 posted 01-20-2022 05:26 PM

For the OP, I can say that I have the 4R version of the 6” PEC double square and use it a lot, but I don’t do metric usually. I don’t usually do anything smaller than 32nds. So the 64ths are not useful to me. Can’t see that well. The 100ths on the 16R would be even worse.

-- I intended to be a woodworker, but turned into a tool and lumber collector.

View Madmark2's profile

Madmark2

3440 posts in 2048 days


#8 posted 01-20-2022 09:59 PM

Most everything in us ww’ing is imperial (fractions). MM seems easier but practical measurements like finding 1/2, 1/4, 2x, 4x etc is double or half of the denominator. Inch was derive by measurement of a “standard” human body part. Human thumb is 1” at widest part – based on king George’s thumb, hence “ruler” and “rule of thumb”. I can measure – by eye – within 1/16” on anything under 1”. I don’t have any 1mm body parts, and measuring 1cm doesn’t help much either.

Your hand is 3”, each finger 3/4”. Your hand span is 9” typically. I always have my “estimate” measuring tools with me.

We used to measure LAN cable runs by counting ceiling tiles, measure cables by floor tiles, etc.

In the shop for serious work it’s 100% Incra. They have a cute 75mm/3” T-rule:

All the precision you could want with guides for your .5mm mech pencil. Genius!

-- The hump with the stump and the pump!

View ChefHDAN's profile

ChefHDAN

1884 posts in 4309 days


#9 posted 01-21-2022 12:36 PM

Outside of the scale, I’ll just offer that I have 2 4” double squares and they are always in my apron pockets, they are the most used tool for me with equipment set ups and also setting measurements for repeatability.

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

21716 posts in 2598 days


#10 posted 01-21-2022 01:17 PM

I’ll also echo what ChefHDAN said. I have two 2.5” and a 6” double square and they all get used constantly. I’ll also recommend going with a PEC cosmetic second. PEC makes excellent tools and their seconds have to pass QA and meet the same standards as all the rest. They just have some sort of cosmetic blemish. Sometimes you can’t even find the blemish.

Concerning units of measure, pick one and stick with it is my advice. Either one is fine, if you find metric is more intuitive, then go metric. But I’d recommend getting all of your measuring tools in metric in the future as well and when you work from plans, work from metric ones. You can definitely mix units and switch back and forth. But I can tell you what so many professors told me in college: sooner or later it WILL bite you in the butt ;-)

-- I collect hobbies. There is no sense in limiting yourself (Don W) - - - - - - - - Kenny in SW VA

View Dave Polaschek's profile

Dave Polaschek

10290 posts in 2042 days


#11 posted 01-21-2022 01:32 PM

I have a shaku tape measure. Lots of fun to lend to folks. The shaku is very close to our foot and a bu is very close to 1/8”, but there are 10 sun in a shaku so it’s like an engineering scale with 1/10th of ft.
I also have a japanese chamfer plane which has scales in bu and mm.

I was surfing around the internet a while back looking at measurement systems and discovered the shaku. My understanding is that it had been outlawed for a while, so it’s pretty hard to find any modern tools using the shaku. That said, I did find a pair of small Japanese squares, and was going to graduate my squares for the surprise swap in shaku, but had problems making fine enough make me happy.

Should revisit that project one of these days…

-- Dave - Santa Fe

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