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Baileigh JP-1686 Three Phase Electrical Question

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Forum topic by BoilerUp21 posted 10-19-2021 11:47 PM 518 views 0 times favorited 9 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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BoilerUp21

180 posts in 2049 days


10-19-2021 11:47 PM

I am purchasing a slightly used Baileigh JP-1686 Planer/Jointer Combo, 220V, 5000 rpm, 5 HP Three Phase machine. This is a 16” Jointer Planer Combo with helical head. The owner currently uses a rotary phase converter powered off their 220V single phase service with a 60amp breaker.

My question for the electrical folks is what is the minimum gauge wire run i need and breaker size to account for startup amp draw?

I currently have a 220v feed in the shop and i think it is 10 or 8 AWG but on a 30 Amp breaker. Other than switching the breaker out and confirming the wire gauge, is there anything else i need to to?


9 replies so far

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TopamaxSurvivor

22803 posts in 4958 days


#1 posted 10-20-2021 05:43 AM

My best guess without all the loads and the distance to the main panel is 60 amp and #6 copper or #4 aluminum minimum. The total load and voltage drop needs to be taken into consideration. My best guess at full load amps on the rotary phase converter is about 32 amps x 1.25 = 40 amps.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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CaptainKlutz

5020 posts in 2776 days


#2 posted 10-20-2021 06:35 AM

Hmm, lots of missing details, too many to offer recommendation.
But here are some factors to consider:

- 3 phase power CABLES including a neutral have current de-rating due number of ‘hot’ wires in bundle. So the AWG of wire needed in your hookup depends on wire/cable type.

- Max current carrying capacity on wires depends on temperature rating of the connections. There are also ambient de-rating factors to consider if your wiring location will exceed 30°C. NEC requires the use of lower 60°C table rating on commonly used residential NM jacketed cable, so your wire type and location can also change the required size.
There are many online wire current carrying tables, but this one has nice summary of the de-rating factors on page 2.

- RPC feed wiring should be sized according to the mfg recommendation, and then adjusted for local de-rating factors on distance and/or wiring type. What is size/brand/model of RPC motor?

- The start up surge is often quoted as 2X FLC, which is 28A for 5HP 230v 1PH motor. The 60A service mentioned above would be quasi-standard (worst case) circuit for industrial 5HP motor installation, though a modern 5HP 1PH motor runs on 40-50A circuit.
For a 60A 240v feed line, I would likely use #6AWG copper wire minimum or maybe #4AWG aluminum. #8AWG mentioned above is only rated for 40A at 60°C or 50A @ 75°C.

- While you are doubling current of the feed circuit, be sure to calculate and verify max load values for the panel and supply line.

When in doubt, hire a professional electrician for upgrade work.

Be Safe, Not Sorry.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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BoilerUp21

180 posts in 2049 days


#3 posted 10-20-2021 11:06 AM



My best guess without all the loads and the distance to the main panel is 60 amp and #6 copper or #4 aluminum minimum. The total load and voltage drop needs to be taken into consideration. My best guess at full load amps on the rotary phase converter is about 32 amps x 1.25 = 40 amps.

- TopamaxSurvivor

Thanks – Would i be better off purchasing a VFD since it essentially provides a soft start? would i then be able to get by with say a 40 amp breaker?

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Jared_S

489 posts in 1241 days


#4 posted 10-20-2021 01:42 PM


My best guess without all the loads and the distance to the main panel is 60 amp and #6 copper or #4 aluminum minimum. The total load and voltage drop needs to be taken into consideration. My best guess at full load amps on the rotary phase converter is about 32 amps x 1.25 = 40 amps.

- TopamaxSurvivor

Thanks – Would i be better off purchasing a VFD since it essentially provides a soft start? would i then be able to get by with say a 40 amp breaker?

- BoilerUp21

Yes.

I’d guess you could power that with a 12fla (3hp) vfd. That would run on a 30A circuit.

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CaptainKlutz

5020 posts in 2776 days


#5 posted 10-20-2021 02:36 PM

Not sure a VFD will be an easy implementation?

1) Thought the Baileigh JP-1686 used a 5.5HP (4.1KW) motor? A 3HP 12A may not be enough.

2) Looking at the manual, there is a lot of extra safety switches and controls in that control cabinet as part of the jointer/planer switch over. VFD needs to be hard wired to the motor, and can’t have switches that interrupt current flow. Will need to remove the control cabinet wiring, and rewire the setup/safety switches to control the VFD, or the VFD will expel the dreaded magic smoke and stop working.

If you go VFD route, don’t rely on catalog VFD ratings. Some 3HP VFD are 10A, while others are 12A. They also have to be de-rated based on ambient temp, and cheapest units have largest de-rating factors, some starting as low as 35°C.

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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Jared_S

489 posts in 1241 days


#6 posted 10-20-2021 03:24 PM



Not sure a VFD will be an easy implementation?

1) Thought the Baileigh JP-1686 used a 5.5HP (4.1KW) motor? A 3HP 12A may not be enough.

2) Looking at the manual, there is a lot of extra safety switches and controls in that control cabinet as part of the jointer/planer switch over. VFD needs to be hard wired to the motor, and can t have switches that interrupt current flow. Will need to remove the control cabinet wiring, and rewire the setup/safety switches to control the VFD, or the VFD will expel the dreaded magic smoke and stop working.

If you go VFD route, don t rely on catalog VFD ratings. Some 3HP VFD are 10A, while others are 12A. They also have to be de-rated based on ambient temp, and cheapest units have largest de-rating factors, some starting as low as 35°C.

Best Luck.

- CaptainKlutz

Didn’t realize that model had a powered table. Looking at it in more detail I’d agree with your assessment on the difficulty of integrating a vfd. Certainly possible but will require a good bit more work than a rpc.

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Jared_S

489 posts in 1241 days


#7 posted 10-20-2021 03:27 PM

Assuming a 10hp rpc, looking at the specs for a American rotary ad10 model rpc tjey spec a 40A breaker and a 10g feeder circuit as the minimum.

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TopamaxSurvivor

22803 posts in 4958 days


#8 posted 10-20-2021 07:16 PM


My best guess without all the loads and the distance to the main panel is 60 amp and #6 copper or #4 aluminum minimum. The total load and voltage drop needs to be taken into consideration. My best guess at full load amps on the rotary phase converter is about 32 amps x 1.25 = 40 amps.

- TopamaxSurvivor

Thanks – Would i be better off purchasing a VFD since it essentially provides a soft start? would i then be able to get by with say a 40 amp breaker?

- BoilerUp21


Yes, the VFD with a soft start would have a lower circuit requirement. The circuit and feeder size depends on other loads and the nameplate data on the motor and the VFD manufacturer’s info.

As CAptK said all the controls and safety switches on the machine need to be connected to the VFD. The VFD needs to be connected directly to the motor. If the magnetic starter remains in the circuitry when it stops the motor it will destroy the VFD.

You probably need to find an electrician experienced in motor controls to make the modifications. Unfortunately, most will not have experience in the area. It may be less expensive to just feed the existing system with 60 amp feeder depending on total load, distance, ect.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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TopamaxSurvivor

22803 posts in 4958 days


#9 posted 10-20-2021 08:07 PM

The loads where a soft start will be a significant factor are pumps and fans that are starting under load. An unloaded motor will still have the current spike but nothing like a loaded motor.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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