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Forum topic by MrRon posted 10-11-2021 11:09 PM 1383 views 1 time favorited 80 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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MrRon

6184 posts in 4483 days


10-11-2021 11:09 PM

Having read most of the posts regarding tool safety, especially table saw safety, It appears that I hear do’s and don’ts from the amateur woodworker, but not (to my knowledge) from professional woodworkers. I’ve seen professionals ignore the same safety precautions they dictate to the non-professionals. Is there something I’m missing here? I would like to hear from professionals as to their views on safety. I bring up this question of safety because safety is mandated by OSHA who answers to insurance companies. Some of their safety measures sometimes don’t make a lot of sense, some do, but those that do are more a matter of common sense. I would like to hear common sense do’s and don’ts that make sense. Everyone knows they should not put their hand in a spinning blade, but OSHA requires every saw to have a guard and use it. Most woodworking shops I’ve seen usually don’t use a guard because it interferes with saw operation. You should never have your hand on top of a piece being fed into a dado blade; Why? Is the blade going to jump up through the wood and bite you.


80 replies so far

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CWWoodworking

2207 posts in 1419 days


#1 posted 10-11-2021 11:26 PM

My philosophy is if it doesn’t feel right don’t do it. Of course it takes experience to know when something doesn’t “feel” right.

I do things on a table saw that would probably make the safety police cringe.But I feel comfortable and do it daily. Probably(definitely would not) wouldn’t recommend my safety procedures to a amateur.

I know I’m not the only one, LRM.

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JAAune

2033 posts in 3556 days


#2 posted 10-11-2021 11:45 PM

Safety in a professional shop is not just a static set of best-practices but a mindset that demands continuous improvement. The fact that even the best-run workplaces still have accidents means that there’s always something that needs to be improved in every workshop.

The most important thing is to fix problems as they are spotted. Pushstick out of reach during the cut? Create a place to hold them within reach.

That’s easier said than done since an observant person can spot 100 problems in a day and there’s not enough time to deal with everything. But it is a good idea to set aside enough time to make at least one improvement each day.

-- See my work at http://altaredesign.com

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MrRon

6184 posts in 4483 days


#3 posted 10-11-2021 11:56 PM



My philosophy is if it doesn’t feel right don’t do it. Of course it takes experience to know when something doesn’t “feel” right.

I do things on a table saw that would probably make the safety police cringe.But I feel comfortable and do it daily. Probably(definitely would not) wouldn’t recommend my safety procedures to a amateur.

I know I’m not the only one, LRM.

- CWWoodworking

My point exactly.

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CWWoodworking

2207 posts in 1419 days


#4 posted 10-12-2021 12:06 AM

My philosophy is if it doesn’t feel right don’t do it. Of course it takes experience to know when something doesn’t “feel” right.

I do things on a table saw that would probably make the safety police cringe.But I feel comfortable and do it daily. Probably(definitely would not) wouldn’t recommend my safety procedures to a amateur.

I know I’m not the only one, LRM.

- CWWoodworking

My point exactly.

- MrRon

My philosophy is if it doesn’t feel right don’t do it. Of course it takes experience to know when something doesn’t “feel” right.

I do things on a table saw that would probably make the safety police cringe.But I feel comfortable and do it daily. Probably(definitely would not) wouldn’t recommend my safety procedures to a amateur.

I know I’m not the only one, LRM.

- CWWoodworking

My point exactly.

- MrRon

Look at it this way-

I wouldn’t attempt to use a knife like a professional chef. I would probably end up with finger salad.

But a chef shouldn’t put his fingers near a table saw blade like I do.

Some people on here probably don’t use there saw 30-50 in a week. For me that’s just another day.

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LeeRoyMan

2150 posts in 967 days


#5 posted 10-12-2021 04:05 AM



My philosophy is if it doesn’t feel right don’t do it. Of course it takes experience to know when something doesn’t “feel” right.

I do things on a table saw that would probably make the safety police cringe.But I feel comfortable and do it daily. Probably(definitely would not) wouldn’t recommend my safety procedures to a amateur.

I know I’m not the only one, LRM.

- CWWoodworking


I slightly resemble that remark. lol

Safety is more than just saying do this and don’t do that. Different levels of experience dictate how you handle safety. The same process is different from one person to another, and there are too many variables that dictate how one manages those variables.
Of course there are standard guidelines for how something should be done, but I believe it changes somewhat as you become more experienced. At least it has for me.
When I first started out, is completely different than now.
Common sense is one of the most important tools that you can have.

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Rich

7451 posts in 1829 days


#6 posted 10-12-2021 04:19 AM


Common sense is one of the most important tools that you can have.

- LeeRoyMan

That pretty much sums up the thread.

-- Half of what we read or hear about finishing is right. We just don’t know which half! — Bob Flexner

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DS

3951 posts in 3660 days


#7 posted 10-12-2021 02:02 PM


You should never have your hand on top of a piece being fed into a dado blade; Why? Is the blade going to jump up through the wood and bite you.

- MrRon

This actually happened in our shop once.
The guy was running a dado in a plywood panel that had a slight bow in it.
He pressed down on top to get it to lay flat on the table.
The panel bound up and was thrown back leaving his palm flat on top of the dado blade.

This one ranks right up there with the worst injuries I’ve seen in the shop.
I had to clean up the inside of the saw after that one. Was not fun.

Sometimes the professionals are the worst to get to follow proper safety protocols in the shop.
“I’ve done it this way for 30 years and still have my fingers.”

We’ve fired some of these guys for being unsafe in the shop.
They didn’t understand that the younger guys are watching their example.
Even if their skills on a table saw has avoided an accident for decades, a less experienced woodworker following that example could have a very bad day.

My view is there is always a safe way to operate. And if it seems like a risky operation, rethink how you can do the job.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS

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Knockonit

970 posts in 1442 days


#8 posted 10-12-2021 02:08 PM

common sense left the arena years ago, now its the PC crowd, problem is you can tout safety, scream safety, but you can never control the person or persons who believe it will never happen to them.
no doubt in my time i’ve ventured beyond that very safe move, and at one time paid for it, loosing a hunk of my left thumb, taught me a huge lesson, and even now i pay a whole lot more attention when using all thing that could assist in digit removal.
we have weekly safety meetings with crews, who must acknowledge on their time card of the meeting and its contents, and i still see STUPID doing STUPID, some loose their jobs, but my No. 1 guy, says, hes gotta givem’ the raspberries, as help is almost non existant, these days
retirement cant come too fast
rj in az

-- Living the dream

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jonah

2207 posts in 4538 days


#9 posted 10-12-2021 02:19 PM

Humans are honestly pretty terrible at assessing risk for the most part. We tend to over-extrapolate from our own experience, and to discount others’ experiences to a much higher degree than we should.

I try to keep that in mind every time I use my table saw or router (the two most dangerous tools in my shop, IMO).

This morning while walking my dog I just saw a contractor making a cut on a jobsite saw with a fence that I could see from 25ft away was misaligned. Blade too high. No blade guard. Standing right in the path of any kickback. Fingers too close to the blade as he pushed the wood through without a push stick.

That guy could keep doing that for years or decades before probability and luck caught up with him. He probably thinks he’s using the saw properly. We all know better, but that doesn’t mean we do everything right from a safety standpoint.

JAAJune’s comment about about safety being a mindset rather than a compliance exercise is well said.

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JackDuren

1712 posts in 2199 days


#10 posted 10-12-2021 03:58 PM

OSHA…, I heard of those guys but never saw them…

I lost fingers in 1985 on a set of dados. After that Jack makes his own decisions on what’s safe and what’s not. I don’t like it I don’t do it, even if it cost me the job..

What we do in an 8+ hour day should be perfectly safe but not always.

You don’t have to work unsafe, but many pros do push the limits….

I payed my dues as a professional.

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therealSteveN

8828 posts in 1814 days


#11 posted 10-12-2021 06:33 PM



OSHA…, I heard of those guys but never saw them…

- JackDuren

In todays world of cutbacks you likely won’t, unless your employer has 500 or more employee’s. They are staffed so they can only afford feet in shops where impact can be made. Most employers with just a few guys won’t ever see them, unless someone files a direct complaint, and that complaint is well written enough to attract attention. Even in larger companies most visits by inspectors are initiated after a complaint has been lodged. Classic example of too few, to cover too may places.

Comments about common sense are good. The most important tool to start up every time you are in the shop lies between your ears. Trying to woodwork without engaging your brain, usually doesn’t end well, and has you seeing a different sort of professional.

-- Think safe, be safe

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JackDuren

1712 posts in 2199 days


#12 posted 10-12-2021 06:45 PM

It took a seious accident to understand motorized tools. Even I have had a serious accident with knives in the shop.

A lot of new cabinet guys just atarting out are aggressive and will do what’s told. Some get per training and some just hp get thrown on the the saw, etc.

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bigblockyeti

7612 posts in 2960 days


#13 posted 10-12-2021 07:21 PM


The panel bound up and was thrown back leaving his palm flat on top of the dado blade.

This one ranks right up there with the worst injuries I’ve seen in the shop.
I had to clean up the inside of the saw after that one. Was not fun.

- DS

Seems like it would just take a little sawdust to clean up the mess.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

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Knockonit

970 posts in 1442 days


#14 posted 10-12-2021 07:48 PM


The panel bound up and was thrown back leaving his palm flat on top of the dado blade.

This one ranks right up there with the worst injuries I’ve seen in the shop.
I had to clean up the inside of the saw after that one. Was not fun.

- DS

Seems like it would just take a little sawdust to clean up the mess.

- bigblockyeti

haha, naw, be lotsa noodles of skin and maybe some chunks, pending duration, some blood, which by the way begins to immediately damage any metal, other than stainless and alum.
i bet it was ugly have seen a fair share, not something i like to dwell on.
best to all on the safety, once being stupid is once too many
rj in az

-- Living the dream

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Dark_Lightning

4842 posts in 4349 days


#15 posted 10-12-2021 08:19 PM


The panel bound up and was thrown back leaving his palm flat on top of the dado blade.

This one ranks right up there with the worst injuries I’ve seen in the shop.
I had to clean up the inside of the saw after that one. Was not fun.

- DS

Seems like it would just take a little sawdust to clean up the mess.

- bigblockyeti

When I was 16, a kid going into the 7th grade disobeyed every rule about using the jointer- board too short, too narrow, too thin, did not get teacher permission. Minimum dimensions were clearly written on the jointer table with black marker. In a busy shop we did manage to hear the scream. Lost most of his fingers and part of one thumb, iirc. I got to clean up the hamburger in the chute and on the floor. I ran a board through it very carefully because now I was afraid of it, and then swept up the chips after they absorbed the blood. Paramedics came by later looking for bone pieces to possibly extend some fingers. There was nothing but hamburger and bits, nothing to really work with. One senior and I were the only ones allowed to use the jointer then, which meant cutting into my wood working time to help the younger guys.

-- Steven.......Random Orbital Nailer

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