Having read most of the posts regarding tool safety, especially table saw safety, It appears that I hear do's and don'ts from the amateur woodworker, but not (to my knowledge) from professional woodworkers. I've seen professionals ignore the same safety precautions they dictate to the non-professionals. Is there something I'm missing here? I would like to hear from professionals as to their views on safety. I bring up this question of safety because safety is mandated by OSHA who answers to insurance companies. Some of their safety measures sometimes don't make a lot of sense, some do, but those that do are more a matter of common sense. I would like to hear common sense do's and don'ts that make sense. Everyone knows they should not put their hand in a spinning blade, but OSHA requires every saw to have a guard and use it. Most woodworking shops I've seen usually don't use a guard because it interferes with saw operation. You should never have your hand on top of a piece being fed into a dado blade; Why? Is the blade going to jump up through the wood and bite you.
My philosophy is if it doesn't feel right don't do it. Of course it takes experience to know when something doesn't "feel" right.
I do things on a table saw that would probably make the safety police cringe.But I feel comfortable and do it daily. Probably(definitely would not) wouldn't recommend my safety procedures to a amateur.
Safety in a professional shop is not just a static set of best-practices but a mindset that demands continuous improvement. The fact that even the best-run workplaces still have accidents means that there's always something that needs to be improved in every workshop.
The most important thing is to fix problems as they are spotted. Pushstick out of reach during the cut? Create a place to hold them within reach.
That's easier said than done since an observant person can spot 100 problems in a day and there's not enough time to deal with everything. But it is a good idea to set aside enough time to make at least one improvement each day.
My philosophy is if it doesn't feel right don't do it. Of course it takes experience to know when something doesn't "feel" right.
I do things on a table saw that would probably make the safety police cringe.But I feel comfortable and do it daily. Probably(definitely would not) wouldn't recommend my safety procedures to a amateur.
My philosophy is if it doesn't feel right don't do it. Of course it takes experience to know when something doesn't "feel" right.
I do things on a table saw that would probably make the safety police cringe.But I feel comfortable and do it daily. Probably(definitely would not) wouldn't recommend my safety procedures to a amateur.
My philosophy is if it doesn't feel right don't do it. Of course it takes experience to know when something doesn't "feel" right.
I do things on a table saw that would probably make the safety police cringe.But I feel comfortable and do it daily. Probably(definitely would not) wouldn't recommend my safety procedures to a amateur.
My philosophy is if it doesn't feel right don't do it. Of course it takes experience to know when something doesn't "feel" right.
I do things on a table saw that would probably make the safety police cringe.But I feel comfortable and do it daily. Probably(definitely would not) wouldn't recommend my safety procedures to a amateur.
Safety is more than just saying do this and don't do that. Different levels of experience dictate how you handle safety. The same process is different from one person to another, and there are too many variables that dictate how one manages those variables.
Of course there are standard guidelines for how something should be done, but I believe it changes somewhat as you become more experienced. At least it has for me.
When I first started out, is completely different than now.
Common sense is one of the most important tools that you can have.
This actually happened in our shop once.
The guy was running a dado in a plywood panel that had a slight bow in it.
He pressed down on top to get it to lay flat on the table.
The panel bound up and was thrown back leaving his palm flat on top of the dado blade.
This one ranks right up there with the worst injuries I've seen in the shop.
I had to clean up the inside of the saw after that one. Was not fun.
Sometimes the professionals are the worst to get to follow proper safety protocols in the shop.
"I've done it this way for 30 years and still have my fingers."
We've fired some of these guys for being unsafe in the shop.
They didn't understand that the younger guys are watching their example.
Even if their skills on a table saw has avoided an accident for decades, a less experienced woodworker following that example could have a very bad day.
My view is there is always a safe way to operate. And if it seems like a risky operation, rethink how you can do the job.
common sense left the arena years ago, now its the PC crowd, problem is you can tout safety, scream safety, but you can never control the person or persons who believe it will never happen to them.
no doubt in my time i've ventured beyond that very safe move, and at one time paid for it, loosing a hunk of my left thumb, taught me a huge lesson, and even now i pay a whole lot more attention when using all thing that could assist in digit removal.
we have weekly safety meetings with crews, who must acknowledge on their time card of the meeting and its contents, and i still see STUPID doing STUPID, some loose their jobs, but my No. 1 guy, says, hes gotta givem' the raspberries, as help is almost non existant, these days
retirement cant come too fast
rj in az
Humans are honestly pretty terrible at assessing risk for the most part. We tend to over-extrapolate from our own experience, and to discount others' experiences to a much higher degree than we should.
I try to keep that in mind every time I use my table saw or router (the two most dangerous tools in my shop, IMO).
This morning while walking my dog I just saw a contractor making a cut on a jobsite saw with a fence that I could see from 25ft away was misaligned. Blade too high. No blade guard. Standing right in the path of any kickback. Fingers too close to the blade as he pushed the wood through without a push stick.
That guy could keep doing that for years or decades before probability and luck caught up with him. He probably thinks he's using the saw properly. We all know better, but that doesn't mean we do everything right from a safety standpoint.
JAAJune's comment about about safety being a mindset rather than a compliance exercise is well said.
I lost fingers in 1985 on a set of dados. After that Jack makes his own decisions on what's safe and what's not. I don't like it I don't do it, even if it cost me the job..
What we do in an 8+ hour day should be perfectly safe but not always.
You don't have to work unsafe, but many pros do push the limits….
In todays world of cutbacks you likely won't, unless your employer has 500 or more employee's. They are staffed so they can only afford feet in shops where impact can be made. Most employers with just a few guys won't ever see them, unless someone files a direct complaint, and that complaint is well written enough to attract attention. Even in larger companies most visits by inspectors are initiated after a complaint has been lodged. Classic example of too few, to cover too may places.
Comments about common sense are good. The most important tool to start up every time you are in the shop lies between your ears. Trying to woodwork without engaging your brain, usually doesn't end well, and has you seeing a different sort of professional.
It took a seious accident to understand motorized tools. Even I have had a serious accident with knives in the shop.
A lot of new cabinet guys just atarting out are aggressive and will do what's told. Some get per training and some just hp get thrown on the the saw, etc.
haha, naw, be lotsa noodles of skin and maybe some chunks, pending duration, some blood, which by the way begins to immediately damage any metal, other than stainless and alum.
i bet it was ugly have seen a fair share, not something i like to dwell on.
best to all on the safety, once being stupid is once too many
rj in az
When I was 16, a kid going into the 7th grade disobeyed every rule about using the jointer- board too short, too narrow, too thin, did not get teacher permission. Minimum dimensions were clearly written on the jointer table with black marker. In a busy shop we did manage to hear the scream. Lost most of his fingers and part of one thumb, iirc. I got to clean up the hamburger in the chute and on the floor. I ran a board through it very carefully because now I was afraid of it, and then swept up the chips after they absorbed the blood. Paramedics came by later looking for bone pieces to possibly extend some fingers. There was nothing but hamburger and bits, nothing to really work with. One senior and I were the only ones allowed to use the jointer then, which meant cutting into my wood working time to help the younger guys.
I could have been more clear. BOTH hands got into the cutters. His first project was a plywood sanding block, for a 1/4 sheet of sand paper. Why he thought that the jointer was going to make the surface better is entirely beyond me. He was a skinny little guy like I was at that age. Probably could have gotten a couple sliders from the output. 8^O
The phrase, "once bitten, twice shy" describes those who have had a negative run-in with a saw or other power tool. They usually learn from that experience. Definitely, Experience is the best teacher, but only if the outcome is positive.
When I worked at Mantel Craft a guy had a pretty good setup for flutes. A stop block at the beginning and one at the end. One time while pushing the leg he forgot to put up the second stop. He fluted his palm….
Seeing pictures of accidents is the best way to drive a safety lesson home. I have a picture of the results from wearing a fall protection harness too loose. ( It's more comfortable when it's loose). The person fell, and the sudden stop popped his personal equipment like an inflated balloon. The picture showed his equipment layed out on surgical towels during reassembly. It definitely sticks in your mind when buckling your harness. A picture can be worth a lot of words.
I can remember my brother telling me this exact story. He was in school in New Jersey at the time but I don't think it was at his school. I think that this story became a standard shop teacher explanation of what can happen when running a small piece into a jointer by hand.
Right on controlfreak. Much easier to think it's some sort of "Urban legend/ conspiracy theory" type thing just put out there to scare kids than think that maybe two (or more…) idiots in two (or more…) places pulled the same dumb assed stunt and got the same result.
The reason a lot of us don't use guards, is a lot of times you simply can't, either because there isn't enough room or there isn't a way to push the wood through the blade.
You can't use a guard with a sled, tenon jig, or miter gauge. If the guard doesn't mount to a riving knife, you can't use them doing bevel cuts.
I have a dust collector hood which acts as a guard, the only time I use it is when I'm ripping and then, the cut is at least 2" wide.
Right on controlfreak. Much easier to think it s some sort of "Urban legend/ conspiracy theory" type thing just put out there to scare kids than think that maybe two (or more…) idiots in two (or more…) places pulled the same dumb assed stunt and got the same result.
I'd really like to think that that story propagated from that instance in '68, as opposed to someone else having this happen to them. I'm getting a vibe that people don't believe it. If it was current day I could use the internet to find it.
Right on controlfreak. Much easier to think it s some sort of "Urban legend/ conspiracy theory" type thing just put out there to scare kids than think that maybe two (or more…) idiots in two (or more…) places pulled the same dumb assed stunt and got the same result.
No doubt that it has happened more than once which is why the minimum size board was written in sharpie on the table. It was a vivid story when told to me and I wasn't even a woodworker. I haven't forgotten even though it was almost 50 years ago. I do however own a jointer now though.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
LumberJocks Woodworking Forum
2.5M posts
96K members
Since 2006
A forum community dedicated to professional woodworkers and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about shop safety, wood, carpentry, lumber, finishing, tools, machinery, woodworking related topics, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!