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Forum topic by Jon_Woodcrafting posted 08-04-2021 02:14 PM 526 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Jon_Woodcrafting

5 posts in 46 days


08-04-2021 02:14 PM

Topic tags/keywords: laguna tablesaw table saw 220 110 power

Hello,

So I will give as much detail as I can below. I’m really confused and have no idea what to do, as I will explain in a moment.

I have a 220 outlet that was installed in my shop. I then ordered the 220 conversion kit for the Laguna Fusion F2 table saw (as it said it supports this). The saw arrived yesterday and the conversion kit seemed very straight forward and simple. But it is not this way as an electrician and myself have no idea what the steps are for the wiring that goes to the outlet on the wall, (installed by the electrician).

The setup is as such: Original 110 Switch: 2 cords coming from switch
1 feeds directly to the motor.
1 goes inside the cabinet and connects to a digital angle display or set but then it looks like that same type of cord comes out of the digital angle display and then to the 110 plug outside of the cabinet.

New 220 Switch: 2 cords coming from the switch
1 feeds directly to the motor
1 is simply a 220 plug on a long cord.

So how would the digital angle display work if the 110 is being replaced?
And if I have to rewire that would be fine but Laguna’s instructions are only for the motor they have nothing relating to the digital angle finder at all online or in other forums. I’ve tried contacting them but I haven’t gotten a response as of yet.

Any and all thoughts would be appreciated. I’ve attached images as well to try and show what I’m describing.


17 replies so far

View Robert's profile

Robert

4714 posts in 2692 days


#1 posted 08-04-2021 03:21 PM

Sounds like both the switch and motor need to be changed to 220.

You’ll get the answer. A 1.75HP motor will do just fine on a 20A 110. Can you change the 220 outlet to a 110 dedicated circuit?

I fixed the image so the experts can see it better :-)

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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CaptainKlutz

4856 posts in 2706 days


#2 posted 08-04-2021 04:14 PM

The problem I see looking at manual(s) for your saw is scary simple: The DRO manual is completely separate from saw, and assumes the saw is original 120v magnetic starter. There is zero mention of DRO voltage capability.

The question for Laguna tech support is: Can the DRO unit hook up to 220/240v.
If yes, then use the DRO manual to hook up the DRO power line.

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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Jon_Woodcrafting

5 posts in 46 days


#3 posted 08-04-2021 04:42 PM

Thank you CaptainKlutz,

That’s actually really useful. I’m talking to their support today to see what they say. I hope that it works because if not that would suck to need the 110 for a single device using almost no power.

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CaptainKlutz

4856 posts in 2706 days


#4 posted 08-04-2021 05:53 PM

FWIW: If the DRO power input is not 120/240v input capable;
I can see a relatively simple way to make the 240v conversion assuming your power supply has 4 wire in box (hot, hot, neutral, ground). Understanding the 240v motor only needs 3 wire (hot, hot, ground).
By changing the input to 4 wire, and using a NEMA 14-20 plug, you could bring neutral in machine and wire the DRO to one HOT, Neutral, and Ground for 120v power. The power usage is so low, it will not impact power balance. This design is common in machine wiring, when you need an overhead light, or some other small device on 240v machine.

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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WhyMe

1410 posts in 2773 days


#5 posted 08-04-2021 07:29 PM

Are you simply switching the saw to 240V because you have a 240V outlet? There is no measurable benefit to switch that saw to 240V.

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Jon_Woodcrafting

5 posts in 46 days


#6 posted 08-05-2021 05:11 PM

Laguna has just sent an email back. They are waiting to get the wiring schematic from the designer of the saw for the 220. After this I would be able to attempt swapping out the cables that are currently in it.

As for now they said just use the 110 as a temporary setup.

Thank you for the help CaptainKlutz.

The benefit is a more constant and consistent power source. The other thing is that the 220 is on it’s own circuit thus putting the saw on it’s own with nothing else pulling power that could be for it. That’s the reasoning and it’s easier on the motor WhyMe

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Robert

4714 posts in 2692 days


#7 posted 08-05-2021 05:26 PM

What does more consistent power source mean? Where did you learn that?

As I said, convert the outlet to 110 and leave it alone.

There is zero advantage to running it on 220.

It’s a brand new saw, take their advice.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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Jon_Woodcrafting

5 posts in 46 days


#8 posted 08-05-2021 05:34 PM

Robert it wasn’t my goal to argue over this or even have this as anything but a help question.

The saw will run 110 or 220, it’s not that I want to just upgrade it to upgrade it.

Saw Link:
Fusion F2

Manual (Older Model)
Manual Still on new page

The was AC flows it will be more steady and stable without as many peaks and lows in it. This means less of a strain on the motor. I’ve discussed it with 2 electrician as well as with Laguna. Both have agreed that running on 220 would be better.

It’s simply the fact that the saw that I received is newer than the schematic that they have is. So now it’s a waiting game and I will use it on 110 for the time being.

Thank you for your input though.

View go4tech's profile

go4tech

43 posts in 2237 days


#9 posted 08-05-2021 05:47 PM

Have a Laguna 1412 BS. Configured it to run on 240V.

Process used:

- Change motor winding connections per the schematic inside the windings connection cover (Second Picture).
- Change the NEMA connector to 240V (believe that they are NEMA 6-xx. Where 6 designates 240, and xx is the actual plug configuration depending on current. Need to match the wall outlet).
- Covered the old 120V outlet on the spline (to prevent an accidental Oh No Mr. Bill! moment).

Have not had an issue for years.

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Robert

4714 posts in 2692 days


#10 posted 08-05-2021 05:57 PM

Do whatever you want, it’s your machine. One of my saws is 1.75HP, it’s been running on 120V for 15 years.

We went through something like this with our well pump. The well guy suggested 240 because the motor will start up quicker, have more power and it was 100 feet from the panel. But he wouldn’t convert the motor told me to call an electrician.

The electrician agreed, but disagreed on power. I remember him saying amps are amps, but it draws less current.

I don’t see why those principles wouldn’t apply to any other motor.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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Jon_Woodcrafting

5 posts in 46 days


#11 posted 08-05-2021 06:33 PM

I understand and I completely agree with the power consumption. I also don’t doubt that it would last on the 110V I’m only saying that I have a 220 installed on it’s own circuit and that was the reason I paid for it to be installed. Just for the table saw and nothing else.

Others can do as they wish as well. I just want to use the circuit I paid $260 USD for, on the item I intended on using it.

The current is what takes the strain out of the motor. Being overly cautious as I had a cheap motor burn out in a Ryobi.

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go4tech

43 posts in 2237 days


#12 posted 08-05-2021 06:36 PM

@ Robert.

A simple way to look at power and motors. Power (P) is Voltage (V) times Current (I). P=VI.

On 110V, the current is effectively twice that of 240V.

Looking at the actual wire, cord, or whatever is used to get from the source (ie: wall) to the load (ie: motor), there is a physical resistance in the wire that is dependent on diameter. As current flows through the wire, this resistance produces a voltage drop that decreases the voltage at the far end. This is Current squared times the internal wire Resistance (I^2R). What happens to the voltage? It is reduced to internal heat in the wire / extension cord. Please note most owners manuals provide guidance for length and size of extension cords based on the current of the load.

That is why for high current, long runs, higher the source voltage is better. Two easy to see examples. Look at the power grid that brings power to your property. They use as high of a voltage as possible to minimize the current down the line. This minimizes the I^2R losses to provide more power at the customers end. A second example is to attempt to run an air compressor on a light weight extension cord. Typically the motor will start and start to fill the tank without issue. Somewhere along the process, the compressed tank’s air pressure rises and the motor needs to work harder. The motor load increases and the current rises. The I^2R losses increase. The voltage at the motor decreases. There comes a time that the load exceeds the available power. The motor stops. Moving the compressor closer to the source (reducing the extension cord length), or increasing the extension cord wire size, decreases the resistance and all will work just fine.

It should be also noted, that for properly designed system, the power via 110V and 220V are the same to the motor. The differences is in the cost of wiring. For long runs with high current on 110V, the wire size becomes very large (ie: expensive) to match the lower dissipated loss (I^2*R) for a 220V system. That is why there is typically 220V for a clothes dryer and electric ovens. Cheaper for the builder(s).

Hope this is seen as helpful.

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go4tech

43 posts in 2237 days


#13 posted 08-05-2021 06:37 PM

Have no idea why some of the above is bold and some is not. Nothing is meant to be bold. Some type of formatting feature that I am not aware of.

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Robert

4714 posts in 2692 days


#14 posted 08-05-2021 07:01 PM

Basically what I just said.

@Jon, You can run more than one machine in a 240V circuit.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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MrUnix

8747 posts in 3411 days


#15 posted 08-05-2021 07:51 PM

Regardless of how you wire it… internally, the motor will only see 120v across it’s coils.

What I find fascinating is their response of ”...waiting to get the wiring schematic from the designer of the saw for the 220.” That just doesn’t instill much confidence in Laguna IMO.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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