I'm not familiar with the PC jig, but most of them require you to use bushings and the 1/2" shank bit make not work in all cases. That said, I'll always use a larger shank bit versus a smaller one when I have a choice. I've bought some with 3/8" shanks (I have 3/8" collets for 2 brands of routers) just to avoid the smaller shanks.
I also stay away from 1/4" shanks if possible. The only time I will use them is if the application begs for use of a small hand held trim router, which are limited to 1/4" shanks. The 1/2" shanks have been available for industrial use for some time, but for hobbiest use and hand held routers are still not main stream. Evidenced by what you can run out and buy at the Big Box stores. As they become more the "norm" I expect even trimmers will allow for 1/2" shanks, or at least 8mm (appx 5/16) or 3/8"
Leigh is fond of the 8mm, otherwise in the US they aren't real heavily used.
I have a PC 4212, and it came with bits. Not sure, but I'd get the jig, and see what they gave you.
Some people have snapped 1/4 bits. and a lot of larger cabinet door, panel bits , etc only come in 1/2". i've never had that problem but i tend to buy decent quality and don't go ape on my tools. that said, i tend to buy 1/2" shank bits when possible that way i don't have to change the collet out(or find the other one) . as i tend to keep my router in the table for moulding, cabinet doors.
Some DTs with narrow pins don't have the clearance for the 1/2" shank to pass through when cutting, otherwise unless you need a small diameter cutter or on a budget, 1/2" is the way to go.
Some DTs with narrow pins don t have the clearance for the 1/2" shank to pass through when cutting, otherwise unless you need a small diameter cutter or on a budget, 1/2" is the way to go.
Agreed. From 2004 through 2008 I had an extensive array of bits and virtually all of them were 1/2". Then Life got in the way and everything had to be sold so given the time span between 2008 and now I really am playing catch up on a lot of this.
Thank you for taking the time to respond, I do appreciate it very much.
+1 with the above. I have both 1/4" and 1/2" shaft bits. Never have a problem with 1/4" shafts yet. If the cutting portion of the bit is the same size, the cut is the same. The difference really is in the shafts' strength. Routing the denser woods (such as hickory) the shaft could possibly bend with the 1/4" vs. 1/2" if taking too big of a cut, or when heating up the bit. The advantage to the 1/4" bit, is that it will also fit the 'trim routers'.
It's not an either/or proposition. The reason you got bits with both 1/4" and 1/2" shanks is because the 4216 has templates for regular dovetails, and small dovetails. The 1/2" bits are sized for the large template, and the 1/4" for the small one. They are not interchangeable.
If you wish, both Whiteside and Freud make bits with 1/4" shanks that are compatible with the larger template. You will have to purchase them separately. Just match the specs of the ones you have-7º 17/32 inch dovetail and 13/32" for the straight bit.
Also, ignore the nonsense above regarding 1/4" shanks. For this application they will work just fine.
Personal preference is 1/2" for strength/safety concerns. As you said Lyman the bits come with the jig. I have replaced the bits with PC bits and an off brand and all worked fine.
You may want to consider adding 2 items for your PC 42 jig, a second router to save time and aggravation changing bits and set up also consider Leigh's VRS1200 Vacuum & Router Support for 4200 Series Porter-Cable Dovetail Jigs. It saves you from a chest and floor full of shavings plus gives the router support. Without the added support it's easy to nick the template with the bit by having to remove the router after the cut… don't ask
1/2" is 4x stronger than 1/4". I push lots of hard hardwoods (jatoba, ipe, wenge, etc.) so carbide is the order of the day. Heat is the enemy of cutters. In addition to being 4x stronger, 1/2" bits also dissipate 4x the heat, not to mention the general heat mass increase of the bigger cutter and mount.
I use 1/4" bits with a 1/8" rounder in my trim router. The intermediate router is the PC plunger for template routing. Even the 1/4" shank bits are all carbide.
I don't resharpen, I replace. Most of my patterns get occasional use, some get used to death. I buy as needed, no "collections", but I do buy matched panel/rail/stile sets. I've prolly' got well over a grand in bits plus that twice again in the wing, mount, inlay and pattern accessories.
The router, not the saw, is the most expensive tool in the shop. The saw gets its annual $75 blade. The router gets new patterns all the time. Even a lousy 1/4" shank solid carbide 1/8" inlay bit is $20. I have to inventory spares so a snapped bit doesn't stop a project.
Many thanks to both of you for your input! The Porter-Cable 4216 arrived today and came with both 1/4 and 1/2".
- LGLDSR73
It s not an either/or proposition. The reason you got bits with both 1/4" and 1/2" shanks is because the 4216 has templates for regular dovetails, and small dovetails. The 1/2" bits are sized for the large template, and the 1/4" for the small one. They are not interchangeable.
If you wish, both Whiteside and Freud make bits with 1/4" shanks that are compatible with the larger template. You will have to purchase them separately. Just match the specs of the ones you have-7º 17/32 inch dovetail and 13/32" for the straight bit.
Also, ignore the nonsense above regarding 1/4" shanks. For this application they will work just fine.
Thanks Rich." Just match the specs of the ones you have-7º 17/32 inch dovetail and 13/32" for the straight bit." As I mentioned above the 4216 came with a 1/2", 1/2" shank, 7 Degree and I just ordered a Freud 1/2" (Dia.) Dovetail Bit with 1/2" Shank (22-112) 14 Degree. This will work in the half-blind template, correct?
1/2" is 4x stronger than 1/4". I push lots of hard hardwoods (jatoba, ipe, wenge, etc.) so carbide is the order of the day. Heat is the enemy of cutters. In addition to being 4x stronger, 1/2" bits also dissipate 4x the heat, not to mention the general heat mass increase of the bigger cutter and mount.
I use 1/4" bits with a 1/8" rounder in my trim router. The intermediate router is the PC plunger for template routing. Even the 1/4" shank bits are all carbide.
I don t resharpen, I replace. Most of my patterns get occasional use, some get used to death. I buy as needed, no "collections", but I do buy matched panel/rail/stile sets. I ve prolly got well over a grand in bits plus that twice again in the wing, mount, inlay and pattern accessories.
The router, not the saw, is the most expensive tool in the shop. The saw gets its annual $75 blade. The router gets new patterns all the time. Even a lousy 1/4" shank solid carbide 1/8" inlay bit is $20. I have to inventory spares so a snapped bit doesn t stop a project.
A cutter with geometry the same in a 1/2" shaft bit as a 1/4" shaft bit will not dissipate 4 times the heat. Heat dissipation is a function of surface area and you simply don't have 4× the surface area just because the shaft is double the diameter. You will have greater ability to absorb heat due to a greater thermal mass and the increased surface area of the shaft will dissipate more heat but the cutter, where the heat is being generated, will not.
The three main reasons for a 1/4" shaft bit are 1) cheaper 2) fits in smaller bushings 3) fits in trim routers.
The benefit of a 1/2" shaft is greater strength and a teeny tiny bit more heat dissipation.
No, I'm afraid that won't work with the PC jig. Your only choice is the 7º 17/32" bit for the large template.
Many other jigs, like the Leigh, use the 1/2" XXº bits, and 14º is.a common one. With the Leigh jig, you use different bits for half blinds, depending on the board thickness. Because they vary in length, but all have a 1/2" diameter cut at the tip, the angle varies, hence the XXº above.
1/2" is 4x stronger than 1/4". I push lots of hard hardwoods (jatoba, ipe, wenge, etc.) so carbide is the order of the day. Heat is the enemy of cutters. In addition to being 4x stronger, 1/2" bits also dissipate 4x the heat, not to mention the general heat mass increase of the bigger cutter and mount.
I use 1/4" bits with a 1/8" rounder in my trim router. The intermediate router is the PC plunger for template routing. Even the 1/4" shank bits are all carbide.
I don t resharpen, I replace. Most of my patterns get occasional use, some get used to death. I buy as needed, no "collections", but I do buy matched panel/rail/stile sets. I ve prolly got well over a grand in bits plus that twice again in the wing, mount, inlay and pattern accessories.
The router, not the saw, is the most expensive tool in the shop. The saw gets its annual $75 blade. The router gets new patterns all the time. Even a lousy 1/4" shank solid carbide 1/8" inlay bit is $20. I have to inventory spares so a snapped bit doesn t stop a project.
I just ordered a Freud 1/2" (Dia.) Dovetail Bit with 1/2" Shank (22-112) 14 Degree. This will work in the half-blind template, correct?
- LGLDSR73
No, I m afraid that won t work with the PC jig. Your only choice is the 7º 17/32" bit for the large template.
Many other jigs, like the Leigh, use the 1/2" XXº bits, and 14º is.a common one. With the Leigh jig, you use different bits for half blinds, depending on the board thickness. Because they vary in length, but all have a 1/2" diameter cut at the tip, the angle varies, hence the XXº above.
bigblockyeti:
Doubling the diameter DOES 4x the cross section area of the shaft. Its called "square law". 4x the area = 4x the strength AND 4x the heat dissipation. I've done the math.
The increased thermal mass dissipates the heat faster for a given thermal resistance, and reduces the edge temp.
I just ordered a Freud 1/2" (Dia.) Dovetail Bit with 1/2" Shank (22-112) 14 Degree. This will work in the half-blind template, correct?
- LGLDSR73
Hi Rich,
I really apologize for this but could you verify that Freud P/N 22-115 is the correct Bit? It's on Amazon.
If and when you have the time.
No, I m afraid that won t work with the PC jig. Your only choice is the 7º 17/32" bit for the large template.
Many other jigs, like the Leigh, use the 1/2" XXº bits, and 14º is.a common one. With the Leigh jig, you use different bits for half blinds, depending on the board thickness. Because they vary in length, but all have a 1/2" diameter cut at the tip, the angle varies, hence the XXº above.
Doubling the diameter DOES 4x the cross section area of the shaft. Its called "square law". 4x the area = 4x the strength AND 4x the heat dissipation. I ve done the math.
For starters, this discussion is not at all helpful for Lyman. But since you've chosen to argue, I'll let you know that your analysis is grossly oversimplified. Are you suggesting that the shaft is the sole point of heat transfer? What about that cutterhead that's effectively a heat sink with a fan?
So, for 4X the shaft surface area to cool the bit 4X faster, 100% of the heat dissipation would have to be through the shaft. Anyone would understand that that's not the case.
bigblockyeti:
Doubling the diameter DOES 4x the cross section area of the shaft. Its called "square law". 4x the area = 4x the strength AND 4x the heat dissipation. I ve done the math.
The increased thermal mass dissipates the heat faster for a given thermal resistance, and reduces the edge temp.
Yes, you've done the math, yes you're still wrong, cross sectional area is not the same as surface area (hint: how heat is dissipated). Double the diameter of the shaft will yield a 4× stronger shaft only. Since a dovetail bit will break where the shaft meets the cutter and that area is not 1/2", your 4× strength statement falls apart.
Heat dissipation/Thermal mass isn't a consideration at all in regard's to either designing, or choosing a router bit. Full stop. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of ********************. Full stop.
Even to entertain the idea, lets take into consideration that by changing shaft sizes up or down, all you're doing is trading collet mass for shaft mass. The exterior geometry of the collet assembly doesn't change. The only real difference is the small amount of exposed shaft from the collet to the top of the bit. The difference in mass between the two scenarios would be minuscule to the point of being nearly immeasurable.
Lets go down this road….If heat ever proves to be any type of issue or concern, it has nothing to do with the shaft size of a router bit. Something is wrong with your setup.
Could be a poor quality bit, dull bit, wrong rpm's, wrong feedrate, etc.
A sharp, quality bit in a good setup with proper parameters should never get more than slightly warm to the touch.
Heat dissipation/Thermal mass isn t a consideration at all in regard s to either designing, or choosing a router bit. Full stop. Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of ********************. Full stop.
Even to entertain the idea, lets take into consideration that by changing shaft sizes up or down, all you re doing is trading collet mass for shaft mass. The exterior geometry of the collet assembly doesn t change. The only real difference is the small amount of exposed shaft from the collet to the top of the bit. The difference in mass between the two scenarios would be minuscule to the point of being nearly immeasurable.
Lets go down this road….If heat ever proves to be any type of issue or concern, it has nothing to do with the shaft size of a router bit. Something is wrong with your setup.
Could be a poor quality bit, dull bit, wrong rpm s, wrong feedrate, etc.
A sharp, quality bit in a good setup with proper parameters should never get more than slightly warm to the touch.
I did the math, turns out that the heat travels through the center of the shaft and exits out the bottom.
That's why you hold the bit up 1/8" it gives the heat somewhere to go.
In big general terms.
1/2" bits, stronger less vibration
8mm bits, Leigh Jigs primarily
1/4" bits, lighter smaller routers and guide bushing use
Don't over complicate things too much
Also, 2 similar bits, one 1/4", one 1/2"
The 1/2" bit has a greater ability to absorb heat due to the added mass of the shaft.
The 1/4" bit has an increased ability to dissipate heat quicker due to it's lesser mass relative to surface area
Geeze…all I wanted to know was which size shank I should use for making small boxes, LOL.
Thanks to everyone!
Best,
Lyman
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