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Forum topic by BrindleDog posted 07-28-2021 12:11 AM 816 views 0 times favorited 23 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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BrindleDog

119 posts in 290 days


07-28-2021 12:11 AM

I bought an 18” Grizzly bandsaw, made in 1988, on Craigslist for $200. The seller was struggling with the switch and getting it powered up (not sure I believe him) but I bought it anyway as a gamble. I know it’s a little risky and it gave me some anxiety but $200 isn’t so bad if it’s a total loss. I’m sure there are other reasons I shouldn’t have bought it, but I didn’t think I’d find a saw that size for that price very often.

The upper guide is cracked and he had been using it with a c-clamp. He said he was going to have a machinist make one, but that it never happened. I’m going to look for the upper guide online I guess.

What steps would you take to get it up and running? What would you add or modify?

Not sure how to rotate the image.


23 replies so far

View Barkley's profile

Barkley

93 posts in 815 days


#1 posted 07-28-2021 12:20 AM

Hey, for $200 I’ll bet you’ll be fine. I paid $150 for my 14” Delta 28-3CO. I really like it except it’s underpowered. I’m shopping for a new motor.

-- Thin the herd

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CaptainKlutz

4859 posts in 2707 days


#2 posted 07-28-2021 06:40 AM

Decent price if it works.
I would have snagged it instantly.

Looks like a stock G1012. Back in early days of Grizzly they released several similar clones of the Rockwell/Delta 14” design with larger tables, and more cut capacity. There was G1538 16” and G1012 18”.
Unlike the 16” model, parts are still available for G1012; even upper blade guide for $21.

- Putting a used BS back in service is not hard.
- Check wheel and motor bearings, replace if needed. G1012 had a 2nd shaft on lower housing for speed change pulley. Check those bearings too.
- Blade guide bearings are consumable, so pick up a couple for next replacement.
- If original, those 35 year old rubber tires will mostly likely shred themselves with any serious use. Check condition, and replace if dry, cracked, or badly damaged.

Regarding the electrical issue:
The G1012 had a 220v 2HP motor and used a magnetic motor starter. Troubleshooting a magnetic starter is pretty easy. The inexpensive IEC starters used by Grizzly were made cheap back then, just like now. Grizzly wants $90 for new one, but can find folks on fleabay shipping similar 2HP starter from China for $40 + custom duties. Have used TECO HUEB-16K Magnetic starters from China on a couple tools. The plastic case is not as durable as metal version, but internal stuff is same. A 2HP 220V motor needs ~10A overload, and a standard 8.5-12.5A adjustable unit is proper size. Can also replace the contactor or overload relay inside those boxes. The parts are available without case here in USA, even though Grizzly on sells the entire starter.

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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BrindleDog

119 posts in 290 days


#3 posted 07-28-2021 10:17 AM

Wow CaptainKlutz, this is exactly the sort of expertise I was hoping to find. Thanks a lot for writing all of that!

When checking bearings do I just rotate the part and feel for play or grinding?

The seller was under the impression that the motor was either 110v or 220v. Is he wrong? I was looking over the manual online and it doesn’t mention 110v anywhere that I saw. It does show 220v/110v on the motor sticker.

I had a friend with me to help me load and he is also pretty good with electrical and mechanical things. He was uncertain of exactly what the magnetic starter was for. Can you explain to me what that starter does so I can share it with him?

Are either of these the part I’m looking for?
https://www.grizzly.com/parts/grizzly-guide-block-holder-cast-iron-v2-04-00/p1012007a
https://www.grizzly.com/parts/grizzly-support-bracket-cast-iron-7-8-id-v2-12-1/p1012005v2

I also found this although it cost more than the saw.
https://www.sawblade.com/product-detail.cfm?id=1750&gclid=CjwKCAjwgISIBhBfEiwALE19SdDwQW3A5IeoUFgf17ULhK-6H9ltXTQhTfCYXc7cKgsfd1ACDdG3FxoC5YIQAvD_BwE


Again, sorry for the upside down image. I’m sure I’ll have more questions. Thanks for any advice!

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4859 posts in 2707 days


#4 posted 07-28-2021 11:22 AM

When checking bearings do I just rotate the part and feel for play or grinding?
Yes, sort of. Also want to check if wheels free spin for long time. When grease in bearings has hardened and is no longer coating the ball bearings, the wheel will spin easily and keep spinning. Good bearings will offer a slight drag due the grease, and wheel slows to stop in a few seconds. If bearings spin too easily, they won’t last long under power as they heat up.

The seller was under the impression that the motor was either 110v or 220v. Is he wrong? I was looking over the manual online and it doesn t mention 110v anywhere that I saw. It does show 220v/110v on the motor sticker.
Motor shows dual voltage, so saw can be dual voltage. Problem is you need different wiring for each voltage. Saw left Grizzly set for 220v. Current magnetic starter is 220v. If you want to use 110V, will need a new/different starter, 30A breaker for power, and new 30A plug/wiring.
IME – Usually cheaper to leave motor setup for 220V A true 2HP motor will not run on a 20A circuit, without constantly tripping breaker due start up surge requirement.

Can you explain to me what that starter does so I can share it with him?
Hmm,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_starter
http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/Magnetic%20Starters%20Explained.ashx

Are either of these the part I m looking for?
To replace this item?

Not enough detail to know? That pic sort of looks like item #5 with set screw in different location?

BTW – was just guessing on PN. Grizzly sold a lot of similar machines. Did you verify that G1012 is right model? :-)

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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BrindleDog

119 posts in 290 days


#5 posted 07-28-2021 04:25 PM

I went to verify that it is the G1012 but can’t find a model number or serial number. Any idea where I would find it on the machine? I emailed Grizzly, but the automated response said 3 day minimum for a reply.

Here is a better image of the part/ parts that need replaced. You can see the cracked piece in the upper left corner. At the bottom right corner the DIY flat head set screw that retains the pin is stripped out too. It appears that those are the correct parts from the Grizzly catalog but I can’t be certain.

The guy I work with who helped me pick it up said that when he was inspecting it, noticed that the motor was wired for 110v. I’ll need some more time to get into it because I’m busy with work. I might get it plugged in tomorrow. I need a crash course in blade set up. I will probably go to youtube.

Thanks for the help so far.

View controlfreak's profile

controlfreak

2730 posts in 814 days


#6 posted 07-28-2021 05:01 PM

I suppose the saw could have been setup for 220V with matching starter and the next owner converted the wiring only to 110V. Does the end of the plug look original?

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BrindleDog

119 posts in 290 days


#7 posted 07-28-2021 05:06 PM

I don’t know about the plug being original. I will look again later today. It is a 20 amp plug but that’s all I know. It seemed to me that he had run it on 110v but when I got there and he was trying to get it running, he had it plugged into a dinky little extension cord. I know nothing about the guy and I just wanted to grab it and worry about a mistake later.

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BrindleDog

119 posts in 290 days


#8 posted 07-28-2021 05:39 PM

CaptainKlutz, thanks for the vintage machinery website link.

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CaptainKlutz

4859 posts in 2707 days


#9 posted 07-28-2021 06:04 PM

Referencing OWWM Rule No. 12: Never assume a machine as received is set up correctly.
I think you may have an example of this?

Best I can tell: Kito Corp PAK-10U contactor in that mag starter is only rated for 1.5KW at 220V (2HP) or 0.75KW at 110V (1HP) both single phase. The adjustable overload is rated from 12-18A, which is strange too. Hard to tell if any of the starter parts might have been replaced?

If the PO attempted to use the original 220V starter on 110V supply, all kinds of strange things can happen.
- Maybe not enough voltage to pull down relay coil, and it won’t turn on.
- To much current for contacts when it does run, which leads to burn out and will not turn anymore.
- The overload is too large for 220V (never trip), and likely too small for 110V (nuisance tripping).

I would work under assumption the PO bought the machine, configured it for 110V, and it only worked for little while. As others mentioned, the plug used MIGHT give a clue on power supply, but I have seen people use wrong plug for 220V too many times to count. Only after you open electrical box on motor and check how windings are connected, will you know the voltage configuration.

The older Grizzly BS had the model/serial number on the very bottom of main label on cover in itty bitty text. It was added by hand with conventional typewriter, and very prone to fading. Use side light and look for indentations. ;)

And yes, the new pics look like #5 & #7 on Grizzly parts list.

Not an expert, just sharing some experience here:

The bork’d upper blade guide could be result of blade break during use. Those cast pieces on end of down shaft break easy with any impact. The location of blade in guide blocks is also unusual IME.
Normally want the teeth sticking forward of guide blocks, and not able to touch the guide blocks, as it instantly dulls blade. The support bearing in back has adjustment to push blade forward to proper position?
Might be something wacky happening with upper/lower wheel location that forced PO to run the saw that way. That or they believe the Snodgrass videos for smaller 14” band saw worked same on larger models. This is wrong IMHO. His advice to center the blade gullet on large BS does not work, and creates massive frustration. There is not enough room on wheel to center gullet on blades ~3/4’ or larger. On larger band saw, it is better to let center of blade ride on center of tire crown. You know when you have it right, as blade does not move forward/back; and BS cuts straight. There is some art to proper BS setup, so have patience while you get this tool working.

Get some new sharp blades to help you learn how to set it up. Old dull blades can make a perfectly set up saw act worse a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. :-)

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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BrindleDog

119 posts in 290 days


#10 posted 07-28-2021 07:07 PM

You’re a wealth of information. Thanks very much. I watched the Snodgrass video before you posted and assumed I had it figured out. Haha! I keep meaning to write extensive replies but have too much going on at the moment.

As far as the positioning of the roller guides and pins, I have no idea how they should look. The guide assembly is just resting there loose if that has anything to do with it?

Also, you’re scaring me a bit with the upper and lower wheel location bit. Is this something that can be fixed?

I don’t see it. Ill look with a light later today.

Grizzly already emailed back and offered to look at the photos.

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4859 posts in 2707 days


#11 posted 07-28-2021 11:36 PM

I watched the Snodgrass video before you posted and assumed I had it figured out. Haha!
Don’t be scared and please don’t misunderstand my point. The Snodgrass videos are a great resource, and very helpful to get you started. Almost everything he demonstrates works on typical band saw; EXCEPT the blade gullet location on larger blade or larger BS.

The blade location is dependent on width of blade, and width of wheel. Many band saws do not have wheels wide enough to allow centering gullets on a 3/4-1” wide re-saw blade. Since typical 14” band saw cannot tension a 3/4” blade properly, most folks run 1/2” blade and the advice works well. Any attempt to do same with larger blade, usually puts one side of blade off the edge of wheel; and creates a frustrated user trying to follow universal expert advice, that is not universal. Saw one demonstration with a question/answer period; he admitted that larger blades may be able use his recommended gullet position. Just wished his mainstream video caught that portion of the discussion. :-)

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View BrindleDog's profile

BrindleDog

119 posts in 290 days


#12 posted 07-29-2021 08:10 PM

Grizzly got back to me and said they think it’s a G1012.

I noticed that the guidepost I have is an inch in diameter.

The guidepost, part number four in the diagram, appears to be turned down to 7/8” to receive the support bracket that they sell. They now only sell the 7/8” support bracket, but use to sell one with an inch inside diameter. The inch version is no longer available. Any advice on how to acquire those parts? I looked on Carter products and their 18” Grizzly upgrade kit is sold out.

I don’t know if the plug is original. Maybe you guys can tell.

I’ll update after we test the magnetic starter. Thanks for any advice.

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controlfreak

2730 posts in 814 days


#13 posted 07-29-2021 08:20 PM

That is not a molded plug so it could vey easily be a change. Could also be what they did at the factory too.

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BrindleDog

119 posts in 290 days


#14 posted 07-29-2021 09:15 PM

I found the 1” diameter assembly on https://www.sawblade.com/grizzly-saw-parts.cfm for $227 dollars. There has to be a cheaper way to do this. Wishful thinking?

View splintergroup's profile

splintergroup

5732 posts in 2435 days


#15 posted 07-29-2021 09:40 PM

Call them and see if they would sell just the bracket alone (if that is the only part you really need to get going).

If you are handy with welding, that part doesn’t look too difficult to fabricate.

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