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How bad of a decision would it be to downgrade from 2-stage to single stage dust collection?

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Forum topic by Derrick posted 07-26-2021 04:33 AM 981 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Derrick

250 posts in 2350 days


07-26-2021 04:33 AM

Hello,

I bought this setup a while back:
https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/310423

I converted it over to 2 stage and everything works great. The only issue I have is that it takes up a lot of real estate in my tiny work space(10×12, 8ft ceiling).

My thought is that if I could tuck the single stage version of this into a corner, I could maximize my space a lot better.

In the thread I linked, you’ll see that I upgraded to the bag to a Donaldson filter. From what I read, it’s similar in spec to Wynn filters that are a popular upgrade. Regardless if that is true, it’s definitely better than the bag that came with it.

I was also thinking if I did drop it down to a single stage, to try and compensate a bit with one of these:
https://wenproducts.com/products/air-filtration-system-item-3410?_pos=6&_sid=063ccb45c&_ss=r

There seems to be some controversy with these filter setups, but again, something better than nothing.

Am I dumb for thinking this might be a good idea to save space?


16 replies so far

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

7183 posts in 3705 days


#1 posted 07-26-2021 10:22 AM

Well, I don’t think it’s “dumb”, and probably even a good idea inside a 10×12 space. There are no other options, like moving it outside the space somehow?

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Barkley's profile

Barkley

93 posts in 814 days


#2 posted 07-26-2021 10:44 AM

The only way I would go back to a single if I was willing to wear a dust mask ALL the time. Single stage dust collectors are fine dust pumps.
I was a Respiratory therapist for 44 years and like cigarette smoking. It was good for business.

-- Thin the herd

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hotbyte

1088 posts in 4187 days


#3 posted 07-26-2021 11:20 AM

It’s not cheap, but space is main reason that I went with an Oneida Supercell. My thoughts were the real estate saved was valuable in a small shop. And, since it also works with small port tools, I saved cost & space of a separate dust extractor/shop vac.

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Derrick

250 posts in 2350 days


#4 posted 07-26-2021 12:22 PM



Well, I don t think it s “dumb”, and probably even a good idea inside a 10×12 space. There are no other options, like moving it outside the space somehow?

- Fred Hargis

The whole setup is on wheels, and can be moved. We’re redesigning our garage layout so I can have a workspace separate from the storage that also takes place. In the past, ive had to move (what feels like) 20 things just to get to the tools I want. In the winter, work shuts down for the most part because I can’t just throw stuff out on the lawn to get it out of the way. I’ve downsized my tools, and sketched up a plan for “my side” of the garage that allows for most everything to be stationary and allows me too still work within the space. It’s my overall goal. We’re in the city, on a small lot. Our neighbors our basically right on top of us. I’ve thought about venting outside and just having the chip collector and blower inside. I just think that might be a bad idea, given how close we are to our neighbors. We have a great relationship with neighbors on both sides of us. They’re all genuinely interested in my hobby. Id hate for my hobby to be the thing that jeopardizes those relationships.
This is also coupled with not wanting to die from reasons I could’ve prevented. My neighbor growing up was a hobbyist furniture maker. I think he made just enough $$$ to support the hobby. Never cared about turning a profit. Also never cared about dust collection or any kind of safety equipment. In his later years, he suffered from all kinds of lung issues. I know what that looks like and don’t want to do the same things.
I’ll look more into it, but I have developed this false sense of entitlement, that I’ve put in over a decades worth of work in this tiny space, and that I’ve somehow earned the right to not have to move my tools around or outside anymore. I’ll try to figure out some balance.

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Derrick

250 posts in 2350 days


#5 posted 07-26-2021 12:28 PM



The only way I would go back to a single if I was willing to wear a dust mask ALL the time. Single stage dust collectors are fine dust pumps.
I was a Respiratory therapist for 44 years and like cigarette smoking. It was good for business.

- 2Goober

No issues there. I’ll admit that I was negligent when I first started out. I thought having my miter saw outdoors was fine and I didn’t need any kind of dust collection. Fresh air was all I needed. I’ve definitely changed my ways and always mask up.

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Fred Hargis

7183 posts in 3705 days


#6 posted 07-26-2021 12:33 PM


Our neighbors our basically right on top of us. I’ve thought about venting outside and just having the chip collector and blower inside. I just think that might be a bad idea, given how close we are to our neighbors.

- Derrick

If your neighbors are that close it would be a bad idea to direct vent. Besides the fine dust it would also be noisy.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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Derrick

250 posts in 2350 days


#7 posted 07-26-2021 12:41 PM



It’s not cheap, but space is main reason that I went with an Oneida Supercell. My thoughts were the real estate saved was valuable in a small shop. And, since it also works with small port tools, I saved cost & space of a separate dust extractor/shop vac.

- hotbyte

Oh wow. This looks to be a game changer. I’m gonna have to learn a bit more about this.
For the past couple years, I’ve made a list of tools to better my experience in the shop. Some items are realistic. Some are just dreams, where a lot of moons would have to align in order for me to be able to make the purchase.
I was really hoping for a jointer/planer combo machine to be my next big purchase. It would further condense the overall footprint of my tools. That might have to wait now.
This thing isn’t cheap, but it looks solve all of my issues.
Thank you for the recommendation! Off to google/youtube I go!

View Derrick's profile

Derrick

250 posts in 2350 days


#8 posted 07-26-2021 12:49 PM


Our neighbors our basically right on top of us. I’ve thought about venting outside and just having the chip collector and blower inside. I just think that might be a bad idea, given how close we are to our neighbors.

- Derrick

If your neighbors are that close it would be a bad idea to direct vent. Besides the fine dust it would also be noisy.

- Fred Hargis

I also thought about building some sort of collection station that housed the filter and bag. Then I could just have a PVC pipe running through the wall to connect them. My wife is very supportive of my hobby, but my creative brain hasn’t come up with an idea that I can envision her being ok with.

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Derrick

250 posts in 2350 days


#9 posted 07-26-2021 02:02 PM

One of the thoughts I’ve had in keeping things 2-stage was to remote mount the filter/bag assembly somewhere else in the shop, instead of drilling a 4-6 inch hole in the side of the house and having it outside.

The problem is the filter&bag take up a ton of room as it sits now. In its current configuration, I just don’t know where I’d put it.

I’ve seen other setups made by people much smarter than myself, where they modified their aftermarket filters and cutdown the footprint.

I’m not above doing something like that. I would even consider upgrading to the dust deputy over my woodcraft cyclone lid.

What I’m thinking is after modifying the filter/bag setup, remote mounting it on the opposite wall, with roughly 8-10 feet of tubing connecting everything. These pictures I linked as examples all have the filter coming directly off the motor.

Would remote mounting the filter & bag so far away from the motor, reduce my efficiency to the point where it isn’t worth it? Even though this might not be the sexiest of options, could it be a decent enough solution to keep me with 2 stages instead of 1?

View EarlS's profile

EarlS

4724 posts in 3560 days


#10 posted 07-26-2021 05:01 PM



It’s not cheap, but space is main reason that I went with an Oneida Supercell. My thoughts were the real estate saved was valuable in a small shop. And, since it also works with small port tools, I saved cost & space of a separate dust extractor/shop vac.

- hotbyte

+1 – I have the supercell for the same reasons.

Ultimately, you have to be able to get the dust into the DC, which is where most of us have the most problems. Then, it is a matter of how well the DC removes the fine dust, lastly, how frequently do you have to empty the DC system. The last item is the main reason for multiple stage DC units.

A single stage system with a fine filter should do the job quite well. You will have to empty it more frequently and clean out the filter.

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

View jkm312's profile

jkm312

104 posts in 615 days


#11 posted 07-26-2021 07:10 PM

What tools in your shop are collecting dust from now? If we knew that, it would help to give you some better answers. A dust deputy on a vacuum works very well for sanders, routers and such. A mitre saw, forget it, they are just plain evil to collect dust from.

I added a super dust deputy to my Jet 1100. This is my 3rd revision and best yet. I would urge you to put in a dust deputy to separate out the chips and add a pleated filter to what you have now. Can you hang all of it on a wall as close to the ceiling as you can to save floor space?

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

8632 posts in 1786 days


#12 posted 07-26-2021 07:21 PM



The only way I would go back to a single if I was willing to wear a dust mask ALL the time. Single stage dust collectors are fine dust pumps.
I was a Respiratory therapist for 44 years and like cigarette smoking. It was good for business.

- 2Goober

My thoughts as well.

Fred offers a great thought, put it outside of the work area. Granted buying construction materials right now is very expensive. All indicators suggest costs are dropping, wait a while, and construct a small enclosure outside of the shops walls, if you have no space available now.

Lungs, if you could buy a pair are really expensive, treat the ones you have with the most love you can give them.

-- Think safe, be safe

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

8632 posts in 1786 days


#13 posted 07-26-2021 07:28 PM

You posted a link to my choice for a HF DC system. I sent Victor 10 bux, and have gotten a great plan, and updates to the original design. Quite the bargain if just a smaller footprint will help you. Below is his link here on LJ's, and below that the ETSY link to get the plan.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/408781

https://www.etsy.com/listing/683808679/modern-and-mint-dust-collection-plans?ref=shop_home_active_1

-- Think safe, be safe

View Derrick's profile

Derrick

250 posts in 2350 days


#14 posted 07-26-2021 08:02 PM


It’s not cheap, but space is main reason that I went with an Oneida Supercell. My thoughts were the real estate saved was valuable in a small shop. And, since it also works with small port tools, I saved cost & space of a separate dust extractor/shop vac.

- hotbyte

+1 – I have the supercell for the same reasons.

Ultimately, you have to be able to get the dust into the DC, which is where most of us have the most problems. Then, it is a matter of how well the DC removes the fine dust, lastly, how frequently do you have to empty the DC system. The last item is the main reason for multiple stage DC units.

A single stage system with a fine filter should do the job quite well. You will have to empty it more frequently and clean out the filter.

- EarlS


What tools in your shop are collecting dust from now? If we knew that, it would help to give you some better answers. A dust deputy on a vacuum works very well for sanders, routers and such. A mitre saw, forget it, they are just plain evil to collect dust from.

I added a super dust deputy to my Jet 1100. This is my 3rd revision and best yet. I would urge you to put in a dust deputy to separate out the chips and add a pleated filter to what you have now. Can you hang all of it on a wall as close to the ceiling as you can to save floor space?

- jkm312


It’s not cheap, but space is main reason that I went with an Oneida Supercell. My thoughts were the real estate saved was valuable in a small shop. And, since it also works with small port tools, I saved cost & space of a separate dust extractor/shop vac.

- hotbyte


You posted a link to my choice for a HF DC system. I sent Victor 10 bux, and have gotten a great plan, and updates to the original design. Quite the bargain if just a smaller footprint will help you. Below is his link here on LJ s, and below that the ETSY link to get the plan.

https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/408781

https://www.etsy.com/listing/683808679/modern-and-mint-dust-collection-plans?ref=shop_home_active_1

- therealSteveN

Yep. I probably could’ve explained things better.

Table saw & jointer are the only items that have 4” ports. I’d like to upgrade my lunchbox planer’s dust collection to a 4” and do the same with my bandsaw. From there, I’d like my miter and my router that sits in the wing of my wing of my table saw to be tied into the system with smaller id hose. I need to figure out something with my drill press, but don’t have any ideas yet.

All that’s left is my handheld routers and my Domino joiner. I think those can be handled adequately with my shop vac.

I don’t plan on plumbing the entire space. I think with as small as it is, I can just run a hose to whichever machine I’m working on at any given time.

The Oneida looks great, and I’m seeing great reviews. The reality is that after my last tool purchase, my wife cut me off for the remainder of 2021. In the interim, I’ll need to utilize what I’ve got and try to make the best of it. I do want to put it on my short list though. It seems to solve all of my problems.

As far as the setup that I posted goes. I too sent victor $10. The plans are great and I think I can use a lot of the ideas to make what I have, better. As the plans are laid out, the footprint is still too big for my space, but if I remote mount the filter and bucket on the other side of my shop, I could tuck it into a corner just the same. The setup would surround my garage door. One side of the door would be the trash can/motor portion. On the other it would be the filter/bucket(or bag). My garage door is 8’ wide, all of the ducting between the two would run above the door. Both sections fit in a roughly 2’x2’ space and that’s exactly what room I have to work with on either side of the door. My only concern is will I take a dip in performance if I move the filter that far away?

Thanks for all the suggestions. This is very helpful with the creative process!

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WoodenDreams

1411 posts in 1123 days


#15 posted 07-26-2021 08:30 PM

They have two different functions. One collect dust and shaving from the machine. The other collects the wading dust in the air.

Adding a Wen 3410 is a good idea for the wading dust in a small shop set-up (mine hangs from the ceiling), in addition of one or both dust collectors. Don’t skimp on your lungs health.

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