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Finishing stone before stroping

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Forum topic by Mosthumble1 posted 06-16-2021 09:38 PM 535 views 0 times favorited 19 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Mosthumble1

6 posts in 61 days


06-16-2021 09:38 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question

Trying to decide if/or what grit stone to use after 1200 grit diamond before stropping. I see a lot of youtubers go to the 16000 Shapton glass after the 1200 and don’t strop. Don’t really want to spend $150 for the 16000. Not wanting to go the water stone route, I was thinking either black Arkansas or 4k to 6k Sharpton for this situation. My strop is double sided, rough side with white compound and smooth side with green. I’ve been successfully going from 1200 grit paper straight to the strop with good results. Any recommendations?


19 replies so far

View SMP's profile

SMP

4402 posts in 1059 days


#1 posted 06-16-2021 10:05 PM

I go to 8000, on a 1000/8000 king stone for $30. Then strop. Perfect shavings in any wood I have used. And you actually aren’t even supposed to soak the 8000, just splash with water or windex, none of the usual water stone mess.

Keep in mind youtubers are almost always trying to sell something

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

3941 posts in 2952 days


#2 posted 06-16-2021 10:07 PM

I don’t think it matters that much because a strop is just for getting the last bits of fatigued metal off the edge and possibly shine it up so it’s slippery to the wood.
Good Luck

-- Aj

View Tony1212's profile

Tony1212

541 posts in 2888 days


#3 posted 06-17-2021 01:03 PM

What is a 1200 grit diamond stone? Extra Fine? Most diamond stone manufacturers don’t specify a numerical grit.

<soapbox> I hate “grits”. Abrasive manufacturers should just go by microns so we can easily compare apples to apples. </soapbox>

I poured a lot of time into a spreadsheet that I wish I could save as a .jpg without taking screenshots. From what I’ve found, 1200 grit US sandpaper is 9 microns. Which is the same as a DMT Extra Fine diamond stone. Which about the same as P2,500 grit Euro sandpaper (8.4 microns).

DMT offers an Extra Extra Fine diamond stone at 3 microns – which is the same as a Norton 4000 stone (also 4000 grit US sandpaper and 8000 grit Micro Mesh pad).

Shapton, Norton, and Lee Valley offer 8000 stones at 1.84 microns, 1.2 microns and 1 micron respectively. 8000 grit US sandpaper and 12000 Micro Mesh are both at 1 micron, as well.

The Shapton 16000 is at 0.92 microns.

The green stropping compound is at 0.5 microns

Hope this helps.

Edited to add that I am also a YouTuber, but my channel is so small that I have nothing to sell. I personally use the DMT diamond stone sharpening system like Paul Sellers – coarse (45 microns), fine (25 microns), extra fine (9 microns) then strop with green compound (0.5 microns).

-- Tony, SW Chicago Suburbs

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

18380 posts in 2292 days


#4 posted 06-17-2021 01:37 PM


Trying to decide if/or what grit stone to use after 1200 grit diamond before stropping. I see a lot of youtubers go to the 16000 Shapton glass after the 1200 and don t strop. Don t really want to spend $150 for the 16000. Not wanting to go the water stone route, I was thinking either black Arkansas or 4k to 6k Sharpton for this situation. My strop is double sided, rough side with white compound and smooth side with green. I ve been successfully going from 1200 grit paper straight to the strop with good results. Any recommendations?

- Mosthumble1

My recommendation is don’t fix what ain’t broke :-) I don’t see any reason you need to add another step to your routine if you get good results now. I generally go to about 8 micron (1200 grit) on most tools. I’ll go to 4 micron on paring chisels and smoothing planes or anything that needs a really fine edge then strop with green compound. On carving tools and knives, I go from the 8 micron to a black Arkansas stone before stropping.

You don’t mention what you’re sharpening exactly. For me, how fine of an abrasive I use depends on the tool, the type of steel, and what it will be used for.

-- I collect hobbies. There is no sense in limiting yourself (Don W) - - - - - - - - Kenny in SW VA

View Robert's profile

Robert

4631 posts in 2634 days


#5 posted 06-17-2021 01:44 PM

I go to 8000 on a water stone.

I don’t know what that translates too my guess is black Arkansas.

I don’t think you need a two sided strop, just the green.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

9035 posts in 3731 days


#6 posted 06-17-2021 01:47 PM

“I’ve been successfully going from 1200 grit paper straight to the strop with good results. Any recommendations?”

If it works don’t fix it.

As you’re working strop as you go to retain the edge.

View Tony1212's profile

Tony1212

541 posts in 2888 days


#7 posted 06-17-2021 02:16 PM

The Black and Translucent Arkansas stones are around 6 microns, right around 2000 grit US sandpaper.

I was able to make a jpg of my spreadsheet. If you see any discrepancies, please let me know along with some supporting info, like a manufacturers website stating grit size in microns.

-- Tony, SW Chicago Suburbs

View Ed Weber's profile

Ed Weber

55 posts in 36 days


#8 posted 06-17-2021 06:10 PM



“I’ve been successfully going from 1200 grit paper straight to the strop with good results. Any recommendations?”

If it works don t fix it.

As you re working strop as you go to retain the edge.

- waho6o9

I’ll second that

I do a fair amount of turning and know that there is a point of little appreciable returns when it comes to sharpening. You can sharpen to scalpel sharp but the edge quickly dulls down to a, what I call working sharp, very quickly.
To a lesser extent, the same thing applies to plane irons and chisels in that order.
In my humble opinion, most of the time there is no reason to over sharpen your tools, if after only a pass or two you’ve dulled that scalpel edge down to just sharp where it will remain a good working edge for quite a while before resharpening is needed.
I don’t think any two people sharpen the same

View dschlic1's profile

dschlic1

512 posts in 3123 days


#9 posted 06-17-2021 07:03 PM

I use a 1200 grit diamond plate on my WorkSharp and then hone with a MDF wheel loaded with green buffing compound. Since moving to this system, I have had no problems. In fact when a chisel or plane starts to drag, I just touch it up with the MDF wheel. Haven’t had to use the diamond disk in a long time.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

3633 posts in 4098 days


#10 posted 06-17-2021 07:53 PM

Sounds an awful lot like you’re in a “it ain’t broke, so don’t fix it” situation, as Ken said.

I use strops here and there, but just go over to my buffer 90% of the time. Buff wheels spin on a off easily, and I either use red compound (jewelers) or the green chromium oxide, but the left wheel is always plastic polish or McGuires Mag Polish, or the equivalent. The buffer makes very short work of last minute details.

View Tony1212's profile

Tony1212

541 posts in 2888 days


#11 posted 06-17-2021 08:05 PM



... I ve been successfully going from 1200 grit paper straight to the strop with good results. Any recommendations?

- Mosthumble1

From my chart above, you can see that going from 1200 grit US sandpaper to a strop is equivalent to going from a DMT Extra Fine diamond stone to a strop which is exactly what Paul Sellers teaches (and what I do).

Maybe you might want to get some 8000 grit US wet/dry sandpaper (1 micron – close to the 0.92 microns of the Shapton 16000) and see if it actually improves anything.

You can get 8000 grit wet/dry sandpaper from Amazon or any auto parts store (Autozone, Advanced, Napa or O’Reily).

-- Tony, SW Chicago Suburbs

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Mosthumble1

6 posts in 61 days


#12 posted 06-18-2021 05:06 PM

Thanks for the input. This is for plane blades and chisels. Just tired of the sandpaper and setting up a quick sharpening station. I have a Shapton pro 8000 stone on the way.

View Mosthumble1's profile

Mosthumble1

6 posts in 61 days


#13 posted 06-18-2021 05:07 PM

Thanks for the input. This is for plane blades and chisels. Just tired of the sandpaper and setting up a quick sharpening station. I have a Shapton pro 8000 stone on the way.

View Phil32's profile

Phil32

1490 posts in 1057 days


#14 posted 06-18-2021 05:32 PM

Do what works for you on sharpening tools. It doesn’t matter what you see on YouTube if it doesn’t work for you. When you find what works for you, perfect it. If you’re spending more time sharpening a blade than using it, you haven’t found what works.

-- Phil Allin - There are woodworkers and people who collect woodworking tools. The woodworkers have a chair to sit on that they made.

View MPython's profile

MPython

373 posts in 966 days


#15 posted 06-18-2021 06:50 PM

If you’re getting inconsistent results going from your 1200 stone to a strop, you might want to consider the steel in your chisels, and plane irons. A2 and many other modern steels are highly resistant to abrasion. The selling point is that they hold an edge for a long time. The down side is that they are resistant to abrasion – which means they are much harder to sharpen than traditional tool steels like 01, W1, high speed and the like. Some manufactures have been using A2 steel for their irons and chisels for a number of years – Lie-Nielsen is one. These steels are difficult to sharpen on customary sharpening media like oil stones and many water stones. Diamonds cut these steels quickly and efficiently. I suggest that you look to some form of fine diamond media to solve your problem. I have a lot of A2 plane irons. For years I never felt like I was getting the edge quality with oil stones on my A2 irons that I got on my 01 irons, no matter how long I spent on the stones. I finally invested in a good piece of flat cast iron and treated it with 3 micron diamond paste. I use it on my A2 irons before I strop, and sometimes I skip the strop all together. Problem solved. The edges on my A2 irons are now as keen as any edge I ever got in my 01 irons and the process is quick and easy.

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