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Attaching wood to old masonry

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5K views 21 replies 9 participants last post by  corelz125 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I have two projects coming up that require me to secure wood to the brick & mortar on my home. One project is a new frame for the access door under the house, the second is front porch hand rails. The problem is in a house that is over 100 years, the bricks and mortar tend to be a little crumbly. I am thinking about drilling holes that I can epoxy some oak dowels in and then screw into them. Are there any other ideas that fellow LJ'ers can think of?
 
#2 ·
Big no on the dowels. Is there wood behind the brick? If the brick is soft and it is old lime mortar, not Portland cement, there is no strength. It would be best to drill through the brick or mortar and use torx drive construction screws into the wood behind. I dealt with old soft brick and mortar on the job for years, and if as soft and crumbly as you say, it won't hold hand rails. Have you tried drilling into the joints to see if it is only the surface that is soft?
 
#5 ·
It is brick columns for rail pickets not hand rails so if I extend the side piece (probably a treated 2×4) to the deck the only force I will have is a lateral force. Only a few feet up so there is no fall hazard is someone really tests the strength of it. I am thinking of boring into the brick and using a dowel to secure with epoxy and drilling a hole for the screw so as not to exert a spreading pressure against the brick. If I cut the rails to the exact size or slightly proud they should hold all in place side to side. The basement door is 100% brick too. Sounds like I need a test dowel and whatever glue can get enough bond to prevent the dowel from spinning when I drive a lag screw in it.
 
#9 ·
Big no on the dowels. Is there wood behind the brick? If the brick is soft and it is old lime mortar, not Portland cement, there is no strength. It would be best to drill through the brick or mortar and use torx drive construction screws into the wood behind. I dealt with old soft brick and mortar on the job for years, and if as soft and crumbly as you say, it won t hold hand rails. Have you tried drilling into the joints to see if it is only the surface that is soft?

- ibewjon
I agree. Op needs to be prepared for a lot of cosmetic work after the project. I've been there.
 
#11 ·
Epoxy and stainless bolts: You might look into mountain climbers methods and gear. A friend who sets climbing routes uses epoxy and stainless steel bolts to (literally) hang hs life on. We climbed a route that he had set 5+ years earlier in So. Yosemite.
 
#14 ·
How about a couple pictures so we can give real advice? We are all just guessing here about solutions with no pictures. The opening statement about the brick being soft and crumbly tells me epoxy won't help. If the brick is semi solid structurally, epoxy would put the least stress on the brick. Expansion anchors could make it worse. There are a lot of reasonably priced stainless anchors available, including stainless tap cons which self tap and screw into the brick.
 
#16 ·
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
That Paul Sellars is very interesting and I may use that method.
Plant Rectangle Wood Gas Brick


You can see the outline of the original top rails in the skim coat of the top. I also can see what looks like a hole near the bottom. I suspect that when some repointing was done in the past other holes were filled.

Here is a picture of the front column. The bricks are holding up but some other have some weakness to them. The mortar in some areas is actually falling out of some joints but here it looks okay but I assume that it has little holding power. The crawl space brickwork is narrower than this So that may need to be treated a little differently.
 

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#19 ·
The Paul method is for use in masonry in good condition. And indoors. I would not use it for your work. With weak mortar, the epoxy would be best choice. Actually, drilling out a length of the joint and tuck pointing it with new material, fairly deeply into the joint Any method or anchor that drives in is a wedge further weakening the structure. Tap Cons would also be good for screwing into the brick. Many lengths and diameters. Also flat head for flush installation. And stainless where exposed to weather.. Your brick look solid. Maybe the deeper part of the mortar is solid? Tap cons pictured.
Gas Electric blue Font Screw Fashion accessory
 

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#20 ·
+1 'The Paul (Sellers) method is for use in masonry [...] indoors.' and probably not for pillars.

If using epoxy or another filler, first blow the dust out of the hole with a straw (or use a compressor); don't forget to shut your eyes.
If using cement or plaster flush the hole with water before filling. (I don't know for epoxy)

Long screws are better than short ones; as if the material may crumble at the surface, it will better resist to the plug expansion inside.
 
#22 ·
Home depot has an epoxy made by quikcrete and also by SIka. They have a fast setting one but it might harden in the nozzle before you can finish what you're working on. I wouldn't use a an expansion bolt in brick. When using epoxy you have to drill the hole over size so there's room for the epoxy and screw.
 
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