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LN No. 3 with 55 degree frog

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Forum topic by Fezz posted 05-11-2021 06:51 PM 386 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Fezz

7 posts in 949 days


05-11-2021 06:51 PM

Topic tags/keywords: lie nielsen handplane

Hi All,

Hoping to get some feedback on a LN no 3. I bought this plane about 6 months ago as a bit of a dream. Unfortunately have yet to get any sort of reasonable results. I purchased it going into a big project with figured cherry, hence the 55 degree frog choice. Since the start it has done little to control tear out. I thought maybe it was the figured wood for a long time, that I needed to really optimize the plane. So I tweaked all the usual things, sharpened the blade endlessly (it’s damn sharp, not the problem), reground the primary bevel to 30 degrees and re-sharpened/honed hoping that maybe the edge needed more support at the high angle, closed and opened the mouth, cleaned it, etc, etc. No difference in results from any of that. Lots of tear out, and the shavings are often very dusty. Instead of usual ribbons, I get these super crinkled shavings that fall apart to dust. To make sure the wood wasn’t a problem, I have been re-trying all these adjustments on a super clear and tight piece of Alaskan yellow cedar, same.

I guess I should also mention that I’ve got a number of other handplanes that I’ve been using for years without any such trouble, consistent, great results with my other planes.

I guess I am wondering if there is something different about tuning a high angle plane, or something obvious I am missing. I am fairly confident that the usual tuning manuevers are not the answer. Anyone else with a no 3 with 55 degree frog?

Picture of probably the best shaving I can get with this set up.

Thanks!


12 replies so far

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Fezz

7 posts in 949 days


#1 posted 05-11-2021 06:53 PM

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SMP

4149 posts in 1023 days


#2 posted 05-11-2021 07:40 PM

I’m curious about this. I was wondering why Chris Schwarz’s Main smoother of choice now is an LN 3 with 45 angle frog and PMV11 iron. But have always been interested in higher angle for figures stuff

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DevinT

1158 posts in 84 days


#3 posted 05-11-2021 07:58 PM

Looks like you need to hone the edge of your chip breaker. The shaving is lifted a fraction of an inch, hits a blunt chip breaker (its’ supposed to be a smooth transition from the blade to the breaker), this causes pressure to build, eventually (in your Alaskan Yellow Pine) you are able to overcome the blunt angle presented to the wood and it climbs over the chip breaker. This results in accordion shavings (as shown above in your photo) or dusty shavings because they can’t get started.

-- Devin, SF, CA

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DevinT

1158 posts in 84 days


#4 posted 05-11-2021 08:01 PM

Maguire has a good video on preparing the chip breaker edge

Jump ahead to 7m for the specific thing I am recommending to eliminate the problem.

-- Devin, SF, CA

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DevinT

1158 posts in 84 days


#5 posted 05-11-2021 08:23 PM

I should mention that preparing your chip breaker on an LN is going to require special attention because it is a different style and will likely require a honing guide or grinding wheel. But that is where I would start in diagnosing the issue.

EDIT: I would probably put a polished edge on the LN chip breaker. Up to 16k. Make a super smooth surface for the shavings to glide up and transition onto from the blade, which has to meet at a razor’s edge given the LN breaker design.

-- Devin, SF, CA

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Foghorn

1243 posts in 504 days


#6 posted 05-11-2021 09:24 PM

I have a LN 4 1/2 with the 55 degree frog. It worked great right out of the box on figured maple. Maybe LN has some suggestions?

-- Darrel

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metolius

430 posts in 1848 days


#7 posted 05-11-2021 10:40 PM

My first and second thought is trimming the throat, get the mouth very very tight.

-- derek / oregon

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Loren

11208 posts in 4765 days


#8 posted 05-11-2021 10:46 PM

Are you pressing down when you plane? Mass helps a high angle plane dig into the cut better. Perhaps the lighter weight of the plane has something to do with the problems. There’s a reason Norris smoothers with high angles were built heavy.

Also the finely set and polished chipbreaker is essential to getting a more scraping-like cut with a high angle plane, or so it’s been said in chip formation theory.

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Foghorn

1243 posts in 504 days


#9 posted 05-11-2021 10:58 PM



Are you pressing down when you plane? Mass helps a high angle plane dig into the cut better. Perhaps the lighter weight of the plane has something to do with the problems. There s a reason Norris smoothers with high angles were built heavy.

Also the finely set and polished chipbreaker is essential to getting a more scraping-like cut with a high angle plane, or so it s been said in chip formation theory.

- Loren


That could be the reason why my 4 1/2 works better due to the mass. It does take more effort than a 45 degree frog for sure and I always take very light cuts with wispy shavings.

-- Darrel

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Aj2

3888 posts in 2916 days


#10 posted 05-12-2021 02:18 AM

I think your using the wrong plane for AYC . I found a very low angle block plane worked best for me.
I have the same plane your using but with a standard frog. So maybe I’m wrong
The way you shaving are fold up sure looks like you need to work on the chip breaker. So I agree with Devin T.
Good Luck

-- Aj

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AMZ

310 posts in 507 days


#11 posted 05-12-2021 06:13 PM

How is the surface of the wood that is being planed? More than a decade ago, I bought a LN #4 with a 50* frog and my shavings on cherry, looked almost identical! The surface was decent, and had little tear-out, if any (this was right out of the LN box). I honed the blade and the chip breaker. I also resent the chip breaker set-back to a whisker. Didn’t take very long to do this and the shavings were now, nice long fluffies and leaving an excellent surface.

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OSU55

2796 posts in 3107 days


#12 posted 05-17-2021 02:58 PM

Nothing wrong with polishing the chip breaker, but experimenting with CB set from the cutting edge will pay better dividends. Moving the CB back in ~ 0.01-0.015 increments will change how much the chip crinkles due to creating a longer chip length before making the abrupt direction change at the CB. The higher the iron angle the further back the CB can be. The CB will do far more for tearout vs a tighter mouth. Open the mouth to let let chips exit and play with CB to edge set.

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