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Kitchen island with sink/dishwasher

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Forum topic by willhime posted 05-06-2021 05:11 PM 639 views 0 times favorited 23 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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willhime

186 posts in 2658 days


05-06-2021 05:11 PM

Topic tags/keywords: jig question resource tip trick finishing joining sanding

I’ve been tasked with making a kitchen island for a friend. I’ve done plenty of cabinetry so I figured it’d be easy peasy, but as I stated drawing it out in sketch up, I realized that island anatomy is a tad different. I’ve watched and read countless videos/blogs on people making them but haven’t found any that explain more in depth about how to construct a frame that the quartzite top will rest on, how to leave space for the sink and dishwasher stub out water lines, and how to build the aesthetic shell around the frame that’ll have the face frame of a good shaker cabinet. Are there any good references or ‘kitchen island bibles’ I’m unaware of ? Here’s a top view of the plan, then my attempts at a rendering of the build:

-- Burn your fire for no witness


23 replies so far

View xedos's profile

xedos

343 posts in 419 days


#1 posted 05-06-2021 10:17 PM

Here’s a notion – forget the frames.

The job will be a lot easier.

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

1600 posts in 2078 days


#2 posted 05-07-2021 01:57 AM

If he studs in with 2×4’s, he will need face frames.. Usually with wide face frames flutes start entering the picture…

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xedos

343 posts in 419 days


#3 posted 05-07-2021 02:19 AM

2×4’s clad in face frames and doors and panels is a ridiculous idea. And that’s being kind.

The design as is , is a waste of space, materials and money.

Build / use CABINETS , not some sort of erector set back of the napkin see what we can build for tv from the salvage yard in two days .

The sink cabinet and sink are too narrow, to be really useful and 6” wide end panels are waaaaaay out of scale even if you love the look.

View SMP's profile

SMP

4153 posts in 1024 days


#4 posted 05-07-2021 03:07 AM

I have built a few. To save time and money, if they are to be painted, is I go to the big box store and buy scratch and dent cabinets. Screw together, then I only have to make whatever pieces to fit gaps/custom etc. Patch holes and paint.

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4548 posts in 2613 days


#5 posted 05-07-2021 04:21 AM

Lots of ways to make island, that is why you won’t find one reference.

+1 Build out shape with cabinets is easier, .vs. 2×4 framing.

+1 Overall width for sink base and dishwasher looks too tight.
Plus 3 standard bar stools will not fit under 66”w counter, especially with corner posts.

Would design a 2×4 wall as back bone of the island, between the sink base/dishwasher and side cabinets. Expand width to place a 2×4 ‘L’ around outside of dishwasher bay. Run the service lines through floor into this stub wall. Frame a small box (recessed by depth of face trim used) in center between side cabinets.

Use trim strips to hide stub wall ends. Cabinet boxes make up rest of outside surfaces. Add a prefinished end panel to cover the dishwasher side. Under neath the over hang, over top of box; add a trim panel, using molding to hide joints. Don’t forget to add tall base molding or some other type of kick panel to prevent scuff damage from shoes when sitting at counter.

Check your quartz supplier, believe you can skip the corner post or side supports with only a 12” over hang, as long as they use thicker OSB sub-base and proper edge height.

Could also place the stub wall on outside near overhang and put everything on one side. Then use drywall and/or some other decorative surface under over hang.

Not an eX-spert, just sharing how I might make that island.

Cheers!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View 1thumb's profile

1thumb

442 posts in 3275 days


#6 posted 05-07-2021 04:41 AM

Capt. Klutz has the way. Knee wall, service inside knee wall. Think you can skip posts. If bar stools, need to finish out higher on that side. Then two separate surfaces

-- I actually have two thumbs

View willhime's profile

willhime

186 posts in 2658 days


#7 posted 05-07-2021 06:41 AM

The reason they chose me to make it is the original contractor wanted to buy premade cabinets from Home Depot and screw them together. She specifically requested a 2×4 frame so that’s what I’m working with/around. It’s not ideal but they want what they want.
The sink won’t be the main sink, just an island sink so it’s ok that it’s smaller, although 36” is pretty wide for a sink area and most large sinks are 18-20” deep so I don’t understand that point. They also requested the corner posts but I’m trying to talk her out of it. Besides plenty of cabinetry, I’ve rehabbed a few airstreams for clients so fitting things in tight areas is pretty natural. I’m gonna cut down on some of the 2×4 racket cause it is taking up too much real estate. There’s some good points here. Thanks y’all.

-- Burn your fire for no witness

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Robert

4592 posts in 2599 days


#8 posted 05-07-2021 10:38 AM

You’re being way more understanding than I would be. What she’s asking for is based on some notion it’s stronger?

I agree with 2×4 wall, bring plumbing and electric in through it. 3 cab units and a side panel for dishwasher and under overhang. Tie it all together with top rails.

Where’s the toe kick?

I agree, 86 the posts and make some brackets.

Good luck!

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Jared_S's profile

Jared_S

464 posts in 1078 days


#9 posted 05-07-2021 11:54 AM

I wouldn’t build a knee wall either, you already have a large dead space for electric and plumbing to run through.

I also don’t understand the point of the 2×4 framing, counter tops are happily being supported by cabinets alone is almost every house out there. The layout is a bit odd, but its no different than any other sink/DW.

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

1600 posts in 2078 days


#10 posted 05-07-2021 12:38 PM

One thing I learned as a cabinet maker, the customer is always right. Personally I like to get payed….if it takes longer or costs more it’s the customers choice…

View Foghorn's profile

Foghorn

1243 posts in 505 days


#11 posted 05-07-2021 02:25 PM


Capt. Klutz has the way. Knee wall, service inside knee wall. Think you can skip posts. If bar stools, need to finish out higher on that side. Then two separate surfaces

- 1thumb


My island is all one height, 36” and is the same height as the counters. 24” or 25” barstools work perfect. There is a 12” overhang supported by 8” knee braces. The quartz is 1 1/4”.

-- Darrel

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

1600 posts in 2078 days


#12 posted 05-07-2021 02:30 PM


Lots of ways to make island, that is why you won t find one reference.

+1 Build out shape with cabinets is easier, .vs. 2×4 framing.

+1 Overall width for sink base and dishwasher looks too tight.
Plus 3 standard bar stools will not fit under 66”w counter, especially with corner posts.

Would design a 2×4 wall as back bone of the island, between the sink base/dishwasher and side cabinets. Expand width to place a 2×4 L around outside of dishwasher bay. Run the service lines through floor into this stub wall. Frame a small box (recessed by depth of face trim used) in center between side cabinets.

Use trim strips to hide stub wall ends. Cabinet boxes make up rest of outside surfaces. Add a prefinished end panel to cover the dishwasher side. Under neath the over hang, over top of box; add a trim panel, using molding to hide joints. Don t forget to add tall base molding or some other type of kick panel to prevent scuff damage from shoes when sitting at counter.

Check your quartz supplier, believe you can skip the corner post or side supports with only a 12” over hang, as long as they use thicker OSB sub-base and proper edge height.

Could also place the stub wall on outside near overhang and put everything on one side. Then use drywall and/or some other decorative surface under over hang.

Not an eX-spert, just sharing how I might make that island.

Cheers!

- CaptainKlutz

It’s not unusual for as many barstools as they want to pay for. Most people only have two because they don’t want to buy 3. Why you always see pairs forsale. You’ll have two Bar stools on 48” if you don’t have three someone will stand there holding a beer anyway..lol

View Jared_S's profile

Jared_S

464 posts in 1078 days


#13 posted 05-07-2021 03:00 PM


Capt. Klutz has the way. Knee wall, service inside knee wall. Think you can skip posts. If bar stools, need to finish out higher on that side. Then two separate surfaces

- 1thumb

My island is all one height, 36” and is the same height as the counters. 24” or 25” barstools work perfect.
- Foghorn

This. People seem to forget they make 3 standard heights of stools /chairs for 30/36/42” tall tables or counters.

Seeing a stool meant for a 42” bar at a 36” island is a pet peeve of mine. Is seems like 9 out of 10 homes listed for sale with a island have that exact setup..

View northwoodsman's profile

northwoodsman

588 posts in 4865 days


#14 posted 05-07-2021 03:29 PM

They are going to hate having the dishwasher in the island especially since that sink isn’t the primary one. Chances are they will rinse dishes in the main sink and drip water across the floor to get to the dishwasher. I have a 4’ x 9’ island in my kitchen. I have a 2” x 4” wall running lengthwise with cabinets on one side (with finished sides on each end) and an overhang on the other side (the wall is not centered front to back).

-- NorthWoodsMan

View Foghorn's profile

Foghorn

1243 posts in 505 days


#15 posted 05-07-2021 06:36 PM



They are going to hate having the dishwasher in the island especially since that sink isn t the primary one. Chances are they will rinse dishes in the main sink and drip water across the floor to get to the dishwasher. I have a 4 x 9 island in my kitchen. I have a 2” x 4” wall running lengthwise with cabinets on one side (with finished sides on each end) and an overhang on the other side (the wall is not centered front to back).

- northwoodsman


Mine is the same size with a 12” overhang and 4 stools but has a six burner rangetop stove and a bar fridge rather than a sink and dishwasher.

-- Darrel

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