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Forum topic by tvrgeek posted 04-20-2021 10:16 AM 428 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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tvrgeek

1872 posts in 2736 days


04-20-2021 10:16 AM

Topic tags/keywords: drill press

Old Delta 17 inch. I get about .01 slop in it at the top of the chuck. I don’t know if it was made that way, as in cheap crap, or if it is worn. Hard to imagine that much wear on a quill bearings, but could it be spindle bearings?

Dropped by Woodcraft and checked their JDP-17. Virtually no play. Might go that route anyway, but want to know if anything can be done to my existing drill before I have to drop a grand on a new one. I do as much metal work as wood and that much slop causes issues. Can the quill be shimmed? No, it is not old enough to be a split case.

And I do not have a mill do do the split case mod, or even a second drip press to drill the bolt hole!


15 replies so far

View Kudzupatch's profile

Kudzupatch

198 posts in 2295 days


#1 posted 04-20-2021 12:53 PM

I think you are right on both accounts.
.010 is a loose spindle. Hard to do anything accurate with that much play.
Never bothered to measure my 50 year old craftsman but I am sure it is substantially less.
While I like older Delta tools, newer ones do not impress me as quality machines.

-- Jeff Horton * Kudzu Craft skin boats* www.kudzucraft.com

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

5249 posts in 3075 days


#2 posted 04-20-2021 01:10 PM

My old Jet had a lot of quill slop and no way to adjust. I bought my Nova Voyager partly because it was a split quill. The new PM 2820 does not have a split quill but appears to have some set screws.

One of the ways some people have used to reduce quill slop is to drill and tap the housing and using set screws to adjust.

View tvrgeek's profile

tvrgeek

1872 posts in 2736 days


#3 posted 04-20-2021 01:13 PM

I had one idea, drill and tap into both bearings and put in a brass bolt to push the quill against the opposite side. They may wear, but would be adjustable.

My first thought was to replace the indexing screw with a brass bolt but the slot in the quill is not machined smooth enough.

I wonder if the 50 year old Craftsman has a split head. This one, 17-900, is only about 20 years old. I had a 10 inch Craftsman benchtop. It was not split either. Made in Taiwan not Mainland, so I was surprised at how poorly it was made. I should not have bought it. Should have bought the Palmgren or Jet to start with. New belts, new sheave, new chuck. Cheap drill got expensive. One machining step eliminated by the bean counters and they are now “disposable” goods. Jet is not split. Rikon not split. Don’t know who does make a decent tool for any price!

The features and specs on the new Delta are great. Their track record for defects and total lack of support eliminate it completely. A real shame. Same with the new Unisaw. Great features. If it was not for the defects and support, I would have bought it. Seems Powermatic managed to screw up a Reeves drive after 150 or so years, so it is out. That does not give me the confidence the industrial Jet Reeves is any better ( $3K) Anything with electronics is not a lifetime, or multiple lifetime tool.

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Ocelot

3033 posts in 3725 days


#4 posted 04-20-2021 02:37 PM

When I remember his name I’ll add it, but one LG drilled and tapped and used nylon bolts to tighten a cheap DP.

I think it might have been StefanG.

-- I intended to be a woodworker, but turned into a tool and lumber collector.

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tvrgeek

1872 posts in 2736 days


#5 posted 04-20-2021 04:09 PM

Talked to Jet support. No Jet has a split head. He did say their metal machines, i.e. J-A5816 were machined to much tighter tolerances. Also said it’s Reeves drive is old school and reliable where the PM2000 is basically junk as reviews have shown. I would run out and buy a Nova, except I just don’t want the electronics. I used to be in the electronic failure analysis business so I do not consider anything electronic to have a life over 7 to 10 years. Free if it does.

So I think it may be worth my while to pull it apart , drill and tap for some bolts. Not sure how long nylon would last, but brass should do pretty well. Could do one bolt per bushing, or maybe better with two about 45 degrees apart. Not much to lose. At least I am not the only crazy one with that idea.

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Redoak49

5249 posts in 3075 days


#6 posted 04-20-2021 11:34 PM

I would love to see the data showing that electronics fail in 7-10 years. I have many tools, devices, computers, cars, etc that are working fine and older than that.

I understand if your preference to avoid electronics but your logic and data escape me. There is no turning back the clock on electronics. It is here to stay. Personally, at my age, I am not worried about my tools lasting 50 years.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

2431 posts in 3880 days


#7 posted 04-21-2021 01:05 AM

How long do cell phones last? Computers? The electronics in our stove failed after 9 years, and no replacement part available. The main control board in our boiler seems to last about 5 years. And I have high quality transient voltage surge suppression on each device, except of course the cell phone. And whole house surge protection on our electrical service. There are parts available for the boiler, but nothing else. All parts I needed are listed as obsolete/no longer available. So maybe TV is correct in his statement. He was in the business…

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

5249 posts in 3075 days


#8 posted 04-21-2021 01:35 AM

Sounds like bad luck …..My appliances last 10+ years with no failures. Computers get replaced due to newer technology available and not electronic failures. Cell phones replaced due to new technology and not failures. A very common reason for cell phone failure is due to the batteries. I guess I am just lucky.

View tvrgeek's profile

tvrgeek

1872 posts in 2736 days


#9 posted 04-21-2021 01:59 AM

It is rather complicated. Electrolytic caps dry out. Transformer windings vibrate and short. Gama rays cause crystalline structure defects, aluminum migration of traces, silver migration in monolithic caps, thermal cracks in the passivation layer, mechanical contacts pitting, fretting corrosion, and so forth. Some of these failure are hours of operation, but curiously, many are just plain time, used or not. Yes, some last longer, some shorter. Statics will tell you that. Things like switches and pots can have very short life spans. ( blister membrane operator panels are infamous) But the bathtub curve on average starts to climb at about 7 years.

Yes, very careful design ( expensive) can make for longer life spans. Improvements in manufacturing are stretching it a little longer, but the accepted industry life is around 7. Sure, we have spacecraft working that have left the heliosphere. You don’t even want to know how much a rad-certified transistor costs. But on the other end, large cloud data centers swap everything every 3 years. I will also suggest, older electronics you think are still functioning if you were to test them, you would find them seriously degraded in performance. Did you know older circuit breakers tend to trip at a lower level? Fatigue of the bi-metallic.

My preference to avoid is more to do with the likelihood of replacement parts. The auto industry is only required to provide spare parts for 10 years. There is no requirement for tools. The controller on the Nova is made by a major supplier, but it has custom programing. Is both the supplier and Nova going to be around in 10 years when it dies? Or are you going to throw away a $1500 tool for a $1 part no longer in production? I had to sell my wife’s Honda as the igniter failed and it was no longer in production. Perfectly good car went to scrap. BTW, the same DVR controller (striatech) is used widely and has a not too stellar reliability record. As it is a high power device, it has many of the most venerable parts in it but in their defense, is built to a competitive price point.


I would love to see the data showing that electronics fail in 7-10 years. I have many tools, devices, computers, cars, etc that are working fine and older than that.

I understand if your preference to avoid electronics but your logic and data escape me. There is no turning back the clock on electronics. It is here to stay. Personally, at my age, I am not worried about my tools lasting 50 years.

- Redoak49


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tvrgeek

1872 posts in 2736 days


#10 posted 04-21-2021 02:02 AM



Sounds like bad luck …..My appliances last 10+ years with no failures. Computers get replaced due to newer technology available and not electronic failures. Cell phones replaced due to new technology and not failures. A very common reason for cell phone failure is due to the batteries. I guess I am just lucky.

- Redoak49


My stove control board has failed twice. Only repair by third party using a modified design as original components are no longer in production. I could go on. If you have 10 year old electronics working, be thankful. Just don’t expect it as the norm.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

6026 posts in 4330 days


#11 posted 04-21-2021 02:42 AM

If your DP has a split casing for the quill, tightening up on the quill clamp can remove a lot of slop as long as it is not so tight that the spindle won’t move up/down. I have an old Delta DP, circa 1939 that is still going strong, but has a bit of quill slop; not enough to warrant a new DP.

View splintergroup's profile

splintergroup

5141 posts in 2309 days


#12 posted 04-21-2021 03:34 PM

I was paranoid of electronics in cars from back in the 70’s I’d rather have my carburetor and point ignition when 80 miles into back country versus fuel injection and electronic ignition. Something comforting about mechanical items that can be field repaired or rigged versus silicon that ain’t so easy to repair.

That aside, in my professional world I fully embrace electronics 8^)

To the drill press, I had a similar issue with a small bench top unit. The slop was bad enough that I roughed up the bore with a cylinder hone and epoxied in shim strips (folded over the ends top/bottom to keep from sliding out). I used three equally space shim strips (about 1/4” wide 0.010 copper). The strips were epoxied, then installed with the quill (waxed) inserted to keep it all aligned and fitted while it dried. I figured it would last for a while until I replaced the press, but 30 years later it is still tight and going strong.

A fair amount of work for a $50 cheap azz tool, but by being cheap I had nothing really to loose by trying 8^)

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

7259 posts in 2807 days


#13 posted 04-21-2021 04:11 PM

How old and how many miles on the Honda?

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View tvrgeek's profile

tvrgeek

1872 posts in 2736 days


#14 posted 04-21-2021 04:22 PM

22 old and only 135K.

As mentioned, drill does not have a split head and I do not have a mill to make such a mod.

I was thinking about gluing shims. Brass. Kind of leaning to the brass bolt idea, but picking the angle may be difficult as the back has the rack and the left side the alignment slot. I would prefer at least two at different angles but the proper direction of force woudl be forward and I am not sure I can do that.

I put a modern alternator (CS130) in all my old British cars, along with electronic ignition. I totally re-wire eliminating all the 50 year old bad connectors. Running a 123 in my MG, but wil probably go Black Box in my Stag. Programable as with modern gas the timing needs to be different. I use a ‘Lil Knock sensor and tailpipe O2 meter for setup. But these are all very generic parts and when they fail, there wil be something to replace them with.

Points were fine when the points and condensers we could buy were not total crap. Modern points are good for about 1000 miles. Maybe.

View Foghorn's profile

Foghorn

1218 posts in 473 days


#15 posted 04-22-2021 01:05 AM



22 old and only 135K.

As mentioned, drill does not have a split head and I do not have a mill to make such a mod.

I was thinking about gluing shims. Brass. Kind of leaning to the brass bolt idea, but picking the angle may be difficult as the back has the rack and the left side the alignment slot. I would prefer at least two at different angles but the proper direction of force woudl be forward and I am not sure I can do that.

I put a modern alternator (CS130) in all my old British cars, along with electronic ignition. I totally re-wire eliminating all the 50 year old bad connectors. Running a 123 in my MG, but wil probably go Black Box in my Stag. Programable as with modern gas the timing needs to be different. I use a Lil Knock sensor and tailpipe O2 meter for setup. But these are all very generic parts and when they fail, there wil be something to replace them with.

Points were fine when the points and condensers we could buy were not total crap. Modern points are good for about 1000 miles. Maybe.

- tvrgeek


You know all about lights out Lucas. Loved my 74 MGB but it was a time bomb.

-- Darrel

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