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Forum topic by Dadinthegarage posted 04-17-2021 03:32 PM 641 views 0 times favorited 18 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Dadinthegarage

3 posts in 27 days


04-17-2021 03:32 PM

Good Morning,

This is a question, if I am posting in an inappropriate section, please let me know and I will repost appropriately.

I started woodworking few years ago and mostly bought used tools to see if this was something I would enjoy… and I LOVE IT! I think it is time to upgrade..

Currently, I have a dewalt 12” (734) planer and Inca 343.190 (second owner) 10” J/P combo and I am thinking of an upgrade. It makes sense to me to buy the widest I can afford… go big or go home right?!

My shop is in a two car garage and so space is a bit limited. I would be able to make space by selling off the the planer and J/p for the new machine. I have come across three brands of 16” J/P combo, and have looked into the specs. Things that I am looking at is the HP, spiral cuter head, table length, you know the important stuff. My issue is that I am not too familiar with the brands, so I’m looking for some advice from those of you who are well versed or experienced than I am to give me an idea of which one would be a good choice. Thank you in advance!

1. Scorpion CWI – 16JP1604HC 16” J/P : 4 HP motor, ~65” long bed. I don’t see that the beds can be extended. Cheapest @ ~ 5000 USD

2. Minimax 16” J/P FS41CX : Longer bed at ~70”. I have heard of this brand, but I don’t see if the beds are extendible, no optional accessories @ ~ 7000 USD

3. Hammer A3 – 41 16” : I feel like this is a grown up toy!!! It has a mortiser attachment (I thought the Minimax has that option, but I don’t see that for the above model) and bed extensions. I’ll have to give up my first born, but it is hard not to purchase one of the options just because. Base price is ~ 7000 USD, I’m sure the options will add to it.

I would really appreciate thoughts on this. If you have something else to consider, please mention that as well. Thanks again!

Dad


18 replies so far

View Loren's profile

Loren

11193 posts in 4732 days


#1 posted 04-17-2021 04:11 PM

I use the bed extension on my Knapp JP. That’s all I can say other than it’s the same size as you’re looking at.

View controlfreak's profile

controlfreak

2125 posts in 685 days


#2 posted 04-17-2021 07:44 PM

Wood and Shop of all places has a nice You Tube video on a 16” Hammer model they recently Purchased. It looks kind of funny in the middle of several handmade Moravian workbenches.

View BurlyBob's profile

BurlyBob

8855 posts in 3349 days


#3 posted 04-17-2021 08:52 PM

I’ve been really satisfied with my 12” jet. It has the helical head and is on a mobile base. That’s a must have in a small garage workspace.

View Dadinthegarage's profile

Dadinthegarage

3 posts in 27 days


#4 posted 04-18-2021 03:11 PM

I saw that. All the reviews are pretty much the same. I was looking at the manual of the Hammer 16” and it says the operating temperature is between 10 degrees C to 40 C, which translates to 50 F to about 110 F or so. I live in Minnesota, and my garage is not as heated as I would like. There is no way I would be able to use the machine for half the year if that is the case. I have not seen such temperature limitations with my other machines.

View ibewjon's profile

ibewjon

2417 posts in 3877 days


#5 posted 04-18-2021 03:35 PM

Is there a gearbox on that machine? Maybe the lube can be changed to one with a lower temp rating or a wider range?

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controlfreak

2125 posts in 685 days


#6 posted 04-18-2021 03:41 PM

That is on the warm side (50 F) for some shops. Even if you have heat turned up when you need it, it would take hours to warm up all that steel. I wonder if it throws off some of the settings from matching the display or as stated above its a lube issue. Good catch though, I would have bought and wondered “what’s wrong” after the fact.

View MPython's profile

MPython

358 posts in 896 days


#7 posted 04-19-2021 03:45 PM

Hi, Dad. I was in your shoes about 8 years ago. I had an Inca 570 10 1/4” Jointer/Planer that I had owned for years. It was a great little machine and I built a lot of furniture with it. But it was a little under-powered and the feed was getting starting to give me trouble. I had the opportunity to buy a slightly used Hammer A3-31 12” J/P for a great price. I jumped on it and it has been one of the best machine buys I’ve made. The Hammer is a very powerful machine and does a great job. Mine is the older straight-knife model. I would love to have the spiral cutter block, but I’m sticking with what I’ve got. Mine has the dial indicator accessory for the planer handwheel. If you decide to go with the Hammer, I highly recommend this accessory. It makes repeatable thicknessing a breeze. The shorter infeed and outfeed tables are not really a problem. I got used to them with the little Inca, and the Hammer, as short as it is, is a good step up from the Inca. Hammer’s detachable table extensions are a big help. I have one that I leave attached to the planer outfeed bracket beneath the jointer table where it is out-of the way. I can easily move it to extend the jointer table when I need the extra length. A 16” machine would be nice, but a) I don’t have room for one, and b) I haven’t run into much that my 12” machine can’t handle, so I don’t think I could justify the significant additional expense for 4 more inches of capacity. I am not familiar with the two other machines you mentioned, but I can vouch for the Hammer. It is a fine machine.

View Dadinthegarage's profile

Dadinthegarage

3 posts in 27 days


#8 posted 04-19-2021 04:21 PM

Thank you for that detailed reply MPython!

I was reading the manual I found online and interestingly I saw that the operating temperature for the machine is 10 – 40 Celsius? That will be a deal breaker for me since I live in Minnesota and my makeshift garage workshop is much to be desired for as far as temperature regulation goes.

Curious to know what your setup is and if you’ve run into temperature issues.

Thanks again!

View MPython's profile

MPython

358 posts in 896 days


#9 posted 04-20-2021 12:45 PM


Thank you for that detailed reply MPython!
....

Curious to know what your setup is and if you ve run into temperature issues.

Thanks again!

- Dadinthegarage

You are certainly welcome.
I live in South Carolina so no temperature issues for me.
Good luck with your decision.


View mdhills's profile

mdhills

71 posts in 3716 days


#10 posted 04-20-2021 02:04 PM

This review captures some of the pain of a J/P, but he does finish with liking it overall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8e1PvTaFLk

Note that he kept his lunchbox planer so that he wasn’t dependent on switching configurations every time he needed planing, unless he needed the extra width.

Matt

View MPython's profile

MPython

358 posts in 896 days


#11 posted 04-20-2021 03:09 PM

I probably need to wait an hour or so before I respond to the video “review” cited by mdhills above, but I’ll dive right in. Some people look for things to complain about. The reviewer is obviously one of those people. His complaint about the height adjustment locking mechanism is trivial. Most high quality planers, whether they are combo machines or stand alone ones, have the capability to lock the planer bed. It secures the the adjustment against creep to guarantee a consistent thickness. Yes, it’s an extra step, but the time it takes to perform it is trivial. My Hammer A3 31 has the same mechanism. I don’t bother to lock the bed except on the final pass. I do it as a precaution because in the 8 years I’ve had my machine I don’t recall the adjustment slipping, even when unlocked. I seldom have issues with snipe. If I do, the snipe is eliminated on the final finishing pass. Change-over from the jointing function to the planer function is an issue inherent in combination machines. If you are irritated by the need to change the configuration of the machine between operations, don’t buy a combination jointer planer. Complaining about it is silly. Yes, it’s a bother, but the time to change my Hammer A3 31 from one configuration to the other is about a minute and a half – a small price to pay for the capability to efficiently dress and dimension 12” rough-sawn stock in my small workshop. His issue with the clearance required at the back of the machine for the blade guard may be critical in his small space, but he, admittedly, should have researched that before he shelled out 8 Grand for the machine. His biggest complaint is that his jointer beds were not coplanar, a problem he caused himself because he didn’t read the operator’s manual. I agree with him that the process of adjusting the beds back into coplanarity is fiddly, but so is the process of adjusting every other woodworking machine I’ve ever worked on. All in all, I found it tedious to listen to this guy’s whining. Hammer makes a world class machine. Their jointer/planers are among the best I’ve ever had the pleasure to use and I’m proud to own one.
End of rant.

View MagicalMichael's profile

MagicalMichael

169 posts in 1600 days


#12 posted 05-12-2021 03:56 PM

I have similar but more specific questions about the Scorpion 12” jointer/planer. I see that this machine has five rows of cutters with 60 all told but a very fast feed rate of 23 ft/min. The jet on the other hand has a four row set up with 56 cutters and a much slower 12 ft/min. Neither set of specs gives anything like cuts/min which might help to understand how I might expect each tp perform, especially on wild grain. The slower feed rate should be a big advantage, but maybe not.

Second, nobody talks about dust collection. I currently have a Jet HH 8” jointer and it does a poor job on dust collection, especially throwing out a lot of dust through the motor pulley hole in the back. That maybe inevitable with a dovetail design but not with a parrallegram

I would appreciate learning about others experience with cut quality and dust collection on these machines.

Michael

-- michael

View Andre's profile

Andre

4531 posts in 2890 days


#13 posted 05-12-2021 07:28 PM

Michael, I have a Scorpion 12” and cut quality IMHO is fantastic, dust collection is fine as in really no dust but in the planner mode there is some chips left on the bed if the stock is not that wide? Machine is okay for hobby use but can be bogged down if you take too big of a bite! You can disengage the auto feed and push through manually if desired, have never attempted this yet.
By the way I am using a 1.5 hp general D.C. run through a Veritas cyclone separator pulling about 1200 cfm at the machine.

-- Lifting one end of the plank.

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MagicalMichael

169 posts in 1600 days


#14 posted 05-13-2021 10:50 AM

Thanks Andre, that’s helpful.

-- michael

View xedos's profile

xedos

290 posts in 384 days


#15 posted 05-13-2021 02:16 PM

Never heard of Scorpion, and I suspect it is made in Asia, and is no where near the same quality or precesion of SCMI or Hammer. If that’s truly the case, it is also over priced.

DitG – I can’t see this endeavour saving you any space at the end of the day. Better machine with more capacity ? Absolutely, but it ain’t gonna give you more room in your garage. 16” is nice, but how many times have you needed or wanted more than your current 10” ? Unless you’re resawing your own wood that’s very large, I cannot see any practical advantage to a 16” over a 12” when buying wood locally at retail.

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