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Steps for multi-color mirror finishes like you see on custom guitars?

2K views 17 replies 7 participants last post by  Axis39 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi,

What steps do you recommend to create multi-color mirror finishes like you see on custom guitars? I'm experimenting with open-grain wood (pine and meranti) and I know I want to end with a poly top coat for buffing - but it's getting there from the raw wood that's complicated in terms of the order of application and making sure layers work well with each other

1.What should I use first on the raw wood - oil, dye or grain filler?
2. Can I mix any of that together in a single step?
3. Is an oil slurry grain filler an option or should I go for something like aqua coat grain filler?
4. Is there a way to apply the dye so the upper layers don't react to it?

 
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#4 ·
The green and the blue and clear one look like figured maple which is is often used to give the really cool patterns. The color gradients are often done using aniline dyes applied with an air brush to get the fade. Another technique that is often done with figured wood is to apply a dark trace coat with a black or brown dye for example and then sand it back until only the softer grain still has dye before applying the colored dye. I would bet that is how they did the green one. It looks to me like they applied a black trace coat, sanding it back less around the edges before applying yellow and then strategically spraying blue with an air brush to get green while leaving some yellow to pop through. I think that they use a spray lacquer for a clear top coat.
 
#5 · (Edited by Moderator)
One of my recent guitar purchases as you can see it's mono colored. I can tell you the novelty of multi-colored wears off quickly.

Musical instrument Guitar String instrument String instrument String instrument accessory


Musical instrument String instrument Guitar String instrument accessory Guitar accessory


Here's an exception, this is a 2 tone burst finish on Ash. The black fading to amber works well.

Musical instrument String instrument Guitar Guitar accessory Wood


Finally for something a bit different that goes well with black and chrome accents, maybe a fit for an art deco furniture piece this is transparent butterscotch blonde on Ash.

Musical instrument Guitar String instrument String instrument Musical instrument accessory
 

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#6 ·
Here's the steps I would take:

1. Sand smooth… like, as smooth as you want your guitar to be. be careful of grain lines (especially with pine as the hard winter rings tend to stay while you sand out the softer Summer growth)
2. Shellac sealer first (I like either mixing my own, or using Zinser SealCoat)
3. Grain filler (I like Aquacoat, but the oil fillers are another option. Whatever you pick, make sure it is compatible with any coats going over it)
4. Your polyurethane of choice - clear, a few coats… enough to sand smooth and evenly
This step requires a bit of extra care to make sure you have no ripples or dips as these will show when you put the sunburst stuff on. Do more coats than you think you should.. Then, sand with a block and soft pressure
5. Add color to your clear and do your sunburst. Start with the darkest color. Typical Fender sunbursts are one color for 50's style and 3 for 60's style
6. More clear coat.
7. Even clear coats on top
8. Sand and buff accordingly

If you're looking to make the grain pop more, yes, dyes and stains and than sanded back (like grain filler). It works best on maples and figured lighter woods.

Lotta info over that the Telecaster Discussion Pages under the Finely Finished forum. Also, more info than you could ever use over at Reranch.
 
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
Pine is a closed grain wood. Sunbursts are usually done on light colored woods. Are you using pine for the top? - Foghorn
Thank you, that's good to know! Changes how I'm going to treat the pine, but the meranti definitely needs a grain filler.

So - I said "like guitars" but I'm actually building piano style keyboards :) but I'd like to finish them "like guitars". Current design has a pine top, but that may change after a few revisions.
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
I think on guitar finishes they typically add colorants to the finish and spray it on after filling. This traps the colorant in the finish so it doesn t bleed. - Loren
Yes, I've seen this method as well. I will have to experiment to see what layer to add the color. I do like the idea of adding the color after the base but before the final top coat.

A quick Google search reveals - yes you can tint/dye polyurethane … another thing to test out.
 
#9 · (Edited by Moderator)
The green and the blue and clear one look like figured maple which is is often used to give the really cool patterns. The color gradients are often done using aniline dyes applied with an air brush to get the fade. Another technique that is often done with figured wood is to apply a dark trace coat with a black or brown dye for example and then sand it back until only the softer grain still has dye before applying the colored dye. I would bet that is how they did the green one. It looks to me like they applied a black trace coat, sanding it back less around the edges before applying yellow and then strategically spraying blue with an air brush to get green while leaving some yellow to pop through. I think that they use a spray lacquer for a clear top coat. - Lazyman
That's a good point about the air brush to get the fade. I will get an attachment to test that out. I do like the idea of a 'trace coat' and then applying a different color over that.
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
One of my recent guitar purchases as you can see it s mono colored. I can tell you the novelty of multi-colored wears off quickly. - darthford
Yes, I agree, mono color designs are usually more elegant, those finishes you posted are gorgeous. I'd like to make stuff like the first one you posted, especially getting the grain to pop.
 
#11 ·
Here s the steps I would take:

1. Sand smooth… like, as smooth as you want your guitar to be. be careful of grain lines (especially with pine as the hard winter rings tend to stay while you sand out the softer Summer growth)
2. Shellac sealer first (I like either mixing my own, or using Zinser SealCoat)
3. Grain filler (I like Aquacoat, but the oil fillers are another option. Whatever you pick, make sure it is compatible with any coats going over it)
4. Your polyurethane of choice - clear, a few coats… enough to sand smooth and evenly
This step requires a bit of extra care to make sure you have no ripples or dips as these will show when you put the sunburst stuff on. Do more coats than you think you should.. Then, sand with a block and soft pressure
5. Add color to your clear and do your sunburst. Start with the darkest color. Typical Fender sunbursts are one color for 50 s style and 3 for 60 s style
6. More clear coat.
7. Even clear coats on top
8. Sand and buff accordingly

If you re looking to make the grain pop more, yes, dyes and stains and than sanded back (like grain filler). It works best on maples and figured lighter woods.

Lotta info over that the Telecaster Discussion Pages under the Finely Finished forum. Also, more info than you could ever use over at Reranch.

- Axis39
Yes, definitely want the grain to pop. That's interesting about the sanding sealer / aqua coat and then adding the color to the polyurethane - that's a nice method. Noticed, two methods for the base - sanding sealer + aqua coat (more popular), there's also Timbermate which acts as both sealer and grain filler - will have to experiment.
 
#12 ·
One of my recent guitar purchases as you can see it s mono colored. I can tell you the novelty of multi-colored wears off quickly. - darthford

Yes, I agree, mono color designs are usually more elegant, those finishes you posted are gorgeous. I d like to make stuff like the first one you posted, especially getting the grain to pop.

- MikeyPiano
PRS (Paul Reed Smith) guitars which are known for highly figured wood finishes has a number of manufacturing videos on youtube. You might check them out.
 
#13 ·
Yes, definitely want the grain to pop. That s interesting about the sanding sealer / aqua coat and then adding the color to the polyurethane - that s a nice method. Noticed, two methods for the base - sanding sealer + aqua coat (more popular), there s also Timbermate which acts as both sealer and grain filler - will have to experiment.

- MikeyPiano
I have used Timbermate as a grain filler, and added color. It works great.

The reason I put shellac down as a sealer is to keep the color in the 'right place'. In a lot of cases, without it, whatever colorant you use will 'dirty' up the rest of the wood. In other words, it adds a little bit of color to tiny pores that you didn't really want color in… It lessens the contrast as well.

AquaCoat and Timbermate are nice because they are easy to sand and level. Which is the whole point, anyway. I keep meaning to pick up one of the oil grain fillers to give them a try.
 
#14 ·
Yes, definitely want the grain to pop. That s interesting about the sanding sealer / aqua coat and then adding the color to the polyurethane - that s a nice method. Noticed, two methods for the base - sanding sealer + aqua coat (more popular), there s also Timbermate which acts as both sealer and grain filler - will have to experiment.

- MikeyPiano
Not much grain to pop on pine or meranti. Both pretty boring woods for the most part. You may want to choose different woods if you're looking for interesting figure.
 
#15 ·
Not much grain to pop on pine or meranti. Both pretty boring woods for the most part. You may want to choose different woods if you re looking for interesting figure.

- Foghorn
I figure I better use cheap wood first until I figure out a basic strategy for doing this. Kinda like learning to drive in an old beat up Toyota pickup before buying a BMW.
 
#16 ·
I have used Timbermate as a grain filler, and added color. It works great.

The reason I put shellac down as a sealer is to keep the color in the right place . In a lot of cases, without it, whatever colorant you use will dirty up the rest of the wood. In other words, it adds a little bit of color to tiny pores that you didn t really want color in… It lessens the contrast as well.

- Axis39
So does it make sense to use Timbermate or Shellac/Aqua Coat, and if I want more contrast - use a dark dye first, then sand it back a bit for the final color?
 
#17 ·
I watch lots of guitar making videos on youtube and most use dyes for coloring the wood rather than stain. Crimson Guitars is currently doing a build that looks like a nebula with a mix of blues, purples, reds, yellows and such all done with different dyes on burled wood.

Big D guitars does use a dark dye then sand back to highlight the grain, then go over with another lighter color dye to get the contrast. You may want mix alcohol and water based dyes to prevent them from running together. Like start with a dark alcohol based dye. Sand it back and then use a lighter water based dye so it doesn't dissolve the dark color and pull it out of the grain.

Once you get the coloring done, you can use any clear finish for the top coats.
 
#18 ·
I have used Timbermate as a grain filler, and added color. It works great.

The reason I put shellac down as a sealer is to keep the color in the right place . In a lot of cases, without it, whatever colorant you use will dirty up the rest of the wood. In other words, it adds a little bit of color to tiny pores that you didn t really want color in… It lessens the contrast as well.

- Axis39

So does it make sense to use Timbermate or Shellac/Aqua Coat, and if I want more contrast - use a dark dye first, then sand it back a bit for the final color?

- MikeyPiano
Depending on what you want to accentuate will determine where the colorants come in.

I am doing a desktop right now. It's oak and I decided I wanted to show off the oak's open grain. So, I added some black colorant to my Aquacoat and have done a couple fo coats. I also wanted a little warmth to the color of the wood, so I used a few coats amber shellac. I'll be putting some epoxy on top (I think. I am currently doing some test pieces). I could use poly or lacquer, or just stick with the shellac for a top coat as well. (I do use de-waxed shellac between different finishes)
 
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