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Need stave angles

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Forum topic by Hammerheadhowie posted 04-05-2021 12:07 PM 490 views 2 times favorited 32 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Hammerheadhowie

15 posts in 12 days


04-05-2021 12:07 PM

Topic tags/keywords: stave angles needed

I found a post from 2014 describing some of the information I need but not enough. My plan is to build a round, barrel like (without the bulge in the middle) structure that will support a manhole cover I have to make an outdoor table. The blog I read said that you need the final drum size (22” diameter), and wall thickness (can be variable but probably an inch) to be able to determine the number of staves and the proper angle to cut the staves. I am definately still missing some pertinent info to figure this out. I have a lot of home improvement experience but am a novice woodworker. As simple of an explanation as possible would be appreciated. I was never great at math. This is my first blog entry ever by the way.

-- Howard Ormond Beach Fl.


32 replies so far

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

6932 posts in 2443 days


#1 posted 04-05-2021 12:31 PM

There are several online calculators you can use to determine the angle to cut the staves and how wide to make them to acheive the size drum you want. Here is one. I simply searched for stave calculator and got several other examples as well. You basically need to know the diameter, wood thickness and how many sides you want to use. You may want to play around with the number of sides to get an easy angle to setup on your table saw. If you don’t want a base with straight sides, this splayed miter joint method might help you determine how to make those cuts.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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Davevand

260 posts in 1892 days


#2 posted 04-05-2021 05:10 PM

This is the site I use

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DBwoods

28 posts in 455 days


#3 posted 04-06-2021 11:44 AM

Each stave is a slice of pie. A circle has 360 degrees, so if you divide 360 by the number of stave you are going to use you get the angle of the pie slice, then divide that is half to get the angle to set your table saw.

360/20=18/2= a blade angle of 9 degree for either side of your stave.

The more staves you use the rounder appearance you will get. I found 18 staves (10 degree saw blade tilt) looked nice when I made small whiskey barrels, but I wouldn’t go with fewer than that.

Edit: the easiest formula is blade angle=180/#of staves you want to use.

-- At some point in your life you will use everyone of your tools as a hammer.

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Hammerheadhowie

15 posts in 12 days


#4 posted 04-06-2021 02:47 PM

That sounds pretty simple, thanks a lot. My only question now is, how do I determine the size of the staves needed to get my chosen diameter ( which is +- 22 1/2”)?

-- Howard Ormond Beach Fl.

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Lazyman

6932 posts in 2443 days


#5 posted 04-06-2021 04:05 PM

The first link I posted above will tell you exactly what size to make the staves based upon the diameter number of staves.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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Hammerheadhowie

15 posts in 12 days


#6 posted 04-06-2021 09:14 PM

Ok, thanks. Will give it a shot.

-- Howard Ormond Beach Fl.

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Hammerheadhowie

15 posts in 12 days


#7 posted 04-06-2021 09:32 PM

Alright, the stave calculator is awesome (kind of like a concrete calculator) but I still have a question. In the diagram, it shows the edges of the staves protruding past the outside diameter which I don’t want. Does that mean that I should make my outside diameter input less than the 22 1/2” I was thinking so that the wood does not stick out past the lid (manhole cover)?

-- Howard Ormond Beach Fl.

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Lazyman

6932 posts in 2443 days


#8 posted 04-06-2021 09:45 PM

I assume you are talking about the diagram below. The calculator assumes you are going to make the staves out of flat boards and shape it to round. Shaping the long staves to round before glue up might be a little challenging. If I were doing this, I would glue it up and use a hand plane (for example) to round the corners to make the entire barrel round. The narrower the staves the less you will have remove to make it round but you will have more corners to shape. Does that make sense?

EDIT to add: Do you also need to make the interior round? If so, the same rule applies—the narrower the staves the less work to round them; however, doing that after the glue up would be pretty tough so you might need to cut coves on the table saw or possibly with a router table or jig.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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Hammerheadhowie

15 posts in 12 days


#9 posted 04-06-2021 09:55 PM

Understood. I had not really planned to worry about making it round, I am ok with some small angles although I may smooth them out some with a sander. Think I will make the diameter a bit smaller to allow some overhang on the lid. Thanks, you have really been helpful.

-- Howard Ormond Beach Fl.

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Lazyman

6932 posts in 2443 days


#10 posted 04-06-2021 09:58 PM

The narrower you make the staves, the more round it will be with only minimal shaping/sanding.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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Hammerheadhowie

15 posts in 12 days


#11 posted 04-07-2021 02:12 PM

OK, still struggling a bit. The calculator says I need an angle of 7.82. I tried subtracting 7.82 from 90 but that did not work, the outside and inside measurements for the stave did not come out right. How do I figure that angle? I am doing 23 staves with an outside diameter of 21”. Chart says the outside cut should be roughly 3” and the inside roughly 2 1/2”.

-- Howard Ormond Beach Fl.

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Hammerheadhowie

15 posts in 12 days


#12 posted 04-07-2021 02:16 PM

Just looked at the calculator again, think i am having trouble with the ring thickness vs the segment thickness. Not sure what the ring thickness is for but I now see that my segment thickness is not near big enough. It is calling for an 1 1/2 and I have about 3/4”. I am sure that could account for my discrepancy. Guess I need to mess with the calculator to have it work out to my 3/4” thickness.

-- Howard Ormond Beach Fl.

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Hammerheadhowie

15 posts in 12 days


#13 posted 04-07-2021 02:31 PM

Yea, the ring thickness is throwing me off. Not sure what it means. I had put the segment thickness in that box in err. Not sure what my ring thickness would be??

-- Howard Ormond Beach Fl.

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LeeRoyMan

1684 posts in 783 days


#14 posted 04-07-2021 02:41 PM

Let’s clarify.
The chart is for making a round ring. You put in the perimeters of the ring you are wanting to make and it tells you how thick of wood, and what size of segments it takes to get that ring.

Are you making your stand round, or just trying to use flat staves?
If you are just using flat staves, ignore the rest and just go with the outside segment lengths.

To start, approx. how wide of pieces do you want to use?
How thick is the material you are going to use?


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Lazyman

6932 posts in 2443 days


#15 posted 04-07-2021 03:13 PM

The ring thickness is how thick the side would be after you round both the inside and outside. It calculates how thick the starting board has to be (segment thickness) in order to get the round exterior and interior diameters and maintain the final ring thickness. Since you do not plan to round the inside diameter, you can put any number in there because you only care about the outside diameter. If you play around with the calculator inputs, you will notice that the ring thickness parameter does not affect the outside segment length result. You can also ignore the segment thickness and the inside segment length results. Just use the outside segment length to setup your cuts. Basically, you will use the angle and the outside segment length as the outside (long) width of your stave.

BTW, you might want to adjust the the number of staves until you get an easier angle to set. For example 20 or 24 yield 9° or 7.5°, respectively. Also I highly recommend a digital angle gauge for setting the blade angle. I use mine all the time. If nothing else, I use it to verify that my table saw blade is actually set to 90°.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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