LumberJocks

Harvey Table Saw - Titanium Nitride top a good idea?

  • Advertise with us

« back to Power Tools, Hardware and Accessories forum

Forum topic by PaulEbert posted 04-02-2021 11:26 AM 956 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View PaulEbert's profile

PaulEbert

2 posts in 41 days


04-02-2021 11:26 AM

Topic tags/keywords: harvey tin

I’m considering buying a table saw (I currently have an old Craftsman contractor saw that probably needs to be put out to pasture) and the Harvey Alpha series has caught my eye. For the foreseeable future, my shop is my garage which means a lot of moisture and potential for rust. I do my best to keep my tools coated and covered with these breathable covers, which do a pretty good job, actually, but I still get more rust than I’d like. So, I was intrigued by the idea of a “rust proof” saw top. It sure might save a lot of work over the years, but what if it isn’t flat or needs flattening down the road? I also wonder how durable it is likely to be.

Any thoughts?

Has anyone purchased or used one of these saws? How was it?

Here’s a link to the saw I’m considering: Alpha HW110S-36


17 replies so far

View tvrgeek's profile

tvrgeek

1865 posts in 2730 days


#1 posted 04-02-2021 11:45 AM

I would ask about the finish grind. I have a C-300 and the top was a very rough finish. I honed it down so it is slick as can be, and in the process honed a few sharp edges and made the wings dead on. One back corner was a tad high. You could not do that with the coated top. But, it sure looks sweet. It should be durable, but I have never heard of anyone wearing through their saw top. Best advice is to ask Harvey if anyone in your area has one who would be willing to show it off.

I had my shop in a garage for years. ( Maryland) Just kept the iron waxed and never had any trouble. Closer to the coast might have been more difficult. There are also zinc phosphate solutions that make iron far less likely to rust one can treat before waxing. Good thing is, quality iron does not rust near as fast as steel.

That Alpha seems to have loaded all their best ideas into one product. Mine is more traditional old school.

View metolius's profile

metolius

391 posts in 1812 days


#2 posted 04-02-2021 05:00 PM

I was thinking about Harvey’s table top selection along the line that perhaps required final steps of the TiN coat would require an extra eye on product selection and the finish quality. So, perhaps or maybe, the quality control may be at a higher level.

-- derek / oregon

View Dave Mills's profile

Dave Mills

76 posts in 480 days


#3 posted 04-02-2021 06:01 PM

I have a Harvey bandsaw with the titanium gold on the surface. While I don’t live in a humid area, my saw and jointer get very light spots of rust periodically, so I have a feel for “typical” rusting of cast iron tops in my area. The titanium top has not rusted one bit, by comparison. So, it seems good in that arena. One possibly major issue though. At one point I shot something on it, it was either WD40 or Simple Green, and unfortunately I don’t remember which it was. Something I clean things with. After very mild wipe with a rag, I took off a good portion of the titanium finish. I haven’t bothered to analyze, change or repair it, but that coating was going to come off really fast. So if you do get it, I suggest being very careful with your cleaning routine.

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4446 posts in 2576 days


#4 posted 04-02-2021 09:51 PM

At one point I shot something on it, it was either WD40 or Simple Green. – Dave Mills
Simple Green has phosphoric acid in it. That stuff is dangerous to metal.

Simple green will corrode raw aluminum in seconds. Most aluminum alloys with nickel tolerate it’s light use, but will corrode when soaked. If you found damage with Simple Green; then Harvey Machinery may be using the sputtered AlTiNi (C3) coating for protection? Here is random page on metal coating types. from a seemingly unaffiliated company, that might help explain?

Might be time to ask Harvey, exactly what kind of TiNi they are using, and is Simple Green safe to use cleaner?
YMMV

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View Dave Mills's profile

Dave Mills

76 posts in 480 days


#5 posted 04-02-2021 10:27 PM



Simple Green has phosphoric acid in it. That stuff is dangerous to metal.

- CaptainKlutz

Ah! There we have it then. I will get that off my list of things to use around tools. Thanks.

View splintergroup's profile

splintergroup

5122 posts in 2304 days


#6 posted 04-02-2021 10:30 PM

Actually phosphoric acid is useful for rusty metal as it converts rust to a more stable compound.

Certainly not something you want around clean steel however….

View ChuckV's profile

ChuckV

3385 posts in 4608 days


#7 posted 04-02-2021 10:52 PM


Simple Green has phosphoric acid in it.

- CaptainKlutz

I am not a chemist. But, here is the Simple Green SDS:
https://simplegreen.com/downloads/SDSEN-NZSimpleGreenAllPurposeCleaner.pdf

Where is the phosphoric acid? It does contain citric acid, but no more than 1%. The pH range is 8.5 – 10.0.

-- "Join the chorus if you can. It'll make of you an honest man." - I. Anderson

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

6377 posts in 3895 days


#8 posted 04-02-2021 11:16 PM

Simple Green product engineers told me it would erode carbide if soaked.
That was enough for me.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View CaptainKlutz's profile

CaptainKlutz

4446 posts in 2576 days


#9 posted 04-03-2021 12:44 AM


Simple Green has phosphoric acid in it.
- CaptainKlutz

I am not a chemist. But, here is the Simple Green SDS:
https://simplegreen.com/downloads/SDSEN-NZSimpleGreenAllPurposeCleaner.pdf

Where is the phosphoric acid? It does contain citric acid, but no more than 1%. The pH range is 8.5 – 10.0.

- ChuckV


They must have changed something, or reduced the amount so it doesn’t require reporting?

All I know is if you spray a puddle of simple green on aluminum foil, and walk away for 12 hours, it used to eat a hole right thru the foil? Great cleaner for grease/oil, horrible stuff used on raw metals.

Have seen cheap mfg use simple green in a hot tank cleaning process as method to surface etch aluminum parts before painting, as they were too cheap to use proper alodine metal prep. Paint would fall off about 30 days after warranty expired, and that is as long as they needed the paint to stick. :-(0)

Seen the stuff dissolve the Freud red coating off saw blades and router bits too.

YMMV

Cheers!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, Doom, despair, agony on me… - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

View pottz's profile

pottz

16841 posts in 2066 days


#10 posted 04-03-2021 01:35 AM

hmmmm perhaps nobody really knows for sure,well that never happens on lj’s-lol. sorry to be a smart ass but it’s friday night,peace jocks.

-- working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.

View PaulEbert's profile

PaulEbert

2 posts in 41 days


#11 posted 04-03-2021 01:39 AM

Thanks for the replies. I think I’m going to pass on the TiN. I’m finding myself back to the point where I have no idea what to get. That usually means I need to let the decision stew for a while. Fortunately, I don’t need to be in a hurry and the researching is enjoyable. Who knows, maybe I’ll find a killer deal on a used saw close by.

View Reap's profile

Reap

23 posts in 100 days


#12 posted 04-13-2021 06:29 PM



Thanks for the replies. I think I m going to pass on the TiN. I m finding myself back to the point where I have no idea what to get. That usually means I need to let the decision stew for a while. Fortunately, I don t need to be in a hurry and the researching is enjoyable. Who knows, maybe I ll find a killer deal on a used saw close by.

- PaulEbert

I’m currently in the same boat. I was actually originally going to get the Delta L36-552, I already had it ordered back in the beginning of March stating it would be delivered by March 23rd. 3 days later, I got another email saying that is currently out of stock and delivery is delayed until July 9th. I got another email yesterday stating that my order was canceled. When I called and asked why, they said the distributor actually canceled the order because they have no idea when they are actually going to get them back in stock and didn’t want to keep pushing the ETA. Needless to say, I was super pissed because when I placed the order, the saw was $2600. Now its $4200.

Harvey saw was my runner up saw. I’m probably still going to go with the Harvey now, but i couldn’t decide if the Tin coating was worth the extra money. People i’ve asked so far all said they couldn’t justify the extra cost for that coating that may or may not even stay on the top and no idea on how to recoat it if needed. I am probably going to just set the normal cast iron top and the money saved will cover the shipping.

View tvrgeek's profile

tvrgeek

1865 posts in 2730 days


#13 posted 04-13-2021 08:34 PM

!!! $4200 for the Delta? !!! Must have hit the moonshine down there in South Carolina.

It is a shame. Nice design. It should be a $3500 saw considering the PM2000 is $3800. That is if it had the quality and reliability of the old one and actual customer support. Now, for that price, they could go through each one by hand and make it perfect. They could afford to warehouse 20 years of parts. Somehow I doubt it.

View brtech's profile

brtech

1128 posts in 4004 days


#14 posted 04-13-2021 09:40 PM

At least consider a SawStop. It’s an excellent saw, and it’s considerably safer than any other table saw. Don’t want to start a flame war, and if you have considered it and rejected it for some good reason, fine. 3HP PCS is probably the sweet spot, but you can go up and down from there. SS has good build quality and excellent customer service.

View therealSteveN's profile

therealSteveN

7678 posts in 1655 days


#15 posted 04-14-2021 04:29 AM


Simple Green has phosphoric acid in it.

- CaptainKlutz

I am not a chemist. But, here is the Simple Green SDS:
https://simplegreen.com/downloads/SDSEN-NZSimpleGreenAllPurposeCleaner.pdf

Where is the phosphoric acid? It does contain citric acid, but no more than 1%. The pH range is 8.5 – 10.0.

- ChuckV

I too was thinking Simple Green to be a base, wasn’t sure of it’s absolute Ph, seems neither are they 8.5 to 10 is a bit of a range. Phosphoric acid is somewhere around 2.5, definitely an acid. Don’t want either in my eyes, but on the saw Simple Green makes tiny bubbles, so might clean it up. Especially if it was greasy/oily.

-- Think safe, be safe

showing 1 through 15 of 17 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com