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Large-scale artwork support with hardboard-framing discussion/question

2K views 14 replies 6 participants last post by  Fragm3nt 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hey guys,

I'm an artist & I've been using hardboard for years for fairly large artwork, and now im looking to approach more "muralistic" territory (5'x7' to 8'x10'+) while continuing to use the material.

I want to kick some ideas around for the artwork support processing idea i have and see if anybody has additional ideas to my own and if what im thinking might pan out.

I'm "married" to Hardboard because its the only material thats remotely reasonable for regular use at these sizes (or example, dropcloth and anything similar and its set up just doesnt cut it for designer stuff here.). Its been used extensively in the past by large scale artists, so there's a reputation. Other materials like ACM and plastics are off the table for either costs, accessibility or lack or archival quality, etc.

So, generally Hardboard is set up with artwork at scale by prepping the front by sanding and priming, typically after you've established a cradling, most often with the same types of lumber used with large canvases, (eg: good pine and fir, etc.) and finishing the edges for durability.

Here's my deal: if im already getting so much hardboard for all this, is there any reasonable, and structually (these sizes can get heavy-ish) use strips of cut up Hardboard itself as cradle frame backing/battening here?

Gluing strips together with similar orientation to the lumber ive used conventionally is an idea i have had for this overall design, but I want to ask a bunch of actual seasoned wood workers if it's pheasible proposition in any way.

--

The considerations and pressure hits with these guys when the sizes enhance and the weight goes up. Then, things like "flatness, and staying that way" follow. Chased by ways of actually hanging them with hardware or cleats. Edges with hardboard here are typically treated with wood glues to avoid damage and splaying.

I may in a position where lumber is the only logical option, but if strategic battening could work due to costs and somebody has a big-brain moment (I dont have many) please hit me with it.

Thanks yall
 
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#3 ·
I'm not sure there would be any weight savings but the idea of a torsion box comes to mind. A google search on "torsion box construction" will illustrate the concept.

It may be that one could use thinner hardboard to recover some of the weight from the extra material.
 
#4 ·
I m not sure there would be any weight savings but the idea of a torsion box comes to mind. A google search on "torsion box construction" will illustrate the concept.

It may be that one could use thinner hardboard to recover some of the weight from the extra material.

- sras
Without having had given it a Google yet, it might just be helpful. If its something thatd obliviate some cross-member usage on a large scale, I could see some stability increase and weight saves.

Thank you for the recommendation, sras. I'll check it out

It's difficult to imagine a solution without seeing everything in person. I think you just might be up against something we all strive for. I want it large lite weight and flat.
Is their a reason your not working off a canvas stretched over a frame.
Good Luck

- Aj2
Right? Reading someone else say its a directive of many other creators at least makes me think ive got my head somewhat in the right direction. (Lol)

There's a lot to the comparison and compromise to large scale stretched canvas and panels (hardboard), but a few key points are the cost, visual appeal and durability over time, with painting process being part and parcel of its use too.

Typically, you're looking at around $650-1,000 for a havy-duty, big boy 12-20 oz. canvas from a supplier, not including shipping and construction when it gets home, whereas You're chiming it at a grand total of about $70 from the hardware store for a hand made piece out of hardboard panel, if you know what you're doing.

Also note the cost of either option in this case (art supports) logically has no reflection on actual quality in terms of archival-ability and overall structural integrity, and a great deal of artists actually recognize it as superior in those terms. The look too, imo, has a more modern presentation and i find lends itself to more modern work (i have a lot of stuff aimed at interior design.)

The labor element isn't great on either if you're making your own stuff, but hey it's part of the fun. . . Right?
 
#5 ·
I'd go the Steve approach, very flat, stiff, and light weight for the end product. I'd have a hard time finding any hardboard over a standard 4' x 8' sheet however.

For glued up stacks of hardboard vs, just using pine, pine wins. It'd take too much time laminating up hardboard strips to get the same effect as pine.
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
I d go the Steve approach, very flat, stiff, and light weight for the end product. I d have a hard time finding any hardboard over a standard 4 x 8 sheet however.

For glued up stacks of hardboard vs, just using pine, pine wins. It d take too much time laminating up hardboard strips to get the same effect as pine.

- splintergroup
Yeap, I think you're on the money there, splintergroup.
 
#7 ·
Hopefully I'm uploading this right:

Wood Fixture Rectangle Rolling Composite material


Paint Wood Rectangle Art Creative arts


Wood Automotive exterior Automotive design Vehicle door Gadget


Window Wood Purple Interior design Shade


Wood Paint Wall Art Building


Ok, so here are just a couple examples of stuff, just to get some visuals going. The first 2 pieces are what i was doing a while back before I started refining edgework and thinking bigger formats.

The last piece is halfway done, in both the art and the frame up itself, and its been my guinea pig for some 5'x7''s here soon.

I had to do the 'ole slats and clamps+water trick to straighten up some mistakes and cupping on the corners, but its leaning in the right direction.

Fortunately, the weight of it falls right on what a more robust canvas of this size, with say double fill weave at 20oz. Might likely weigh., with the additional "pro" of not having to eventually re-stretch or key back up later (to be fair, you wouldnt have to anyway for a decade at worst anyway with good stuff and proper set-up.)

I could shave off a few oz or so by bringing a bevel via router/chisel on the interior struts. As excessive as that might seem here, again we are trying to ring out weight savings where we can.

Last off, as much as I prefer the more shallow orientation on this (last) cradle versus the top, black guy's "gallery wrap" profile, I fear there will be pretty obvious diminished returns on it going huge, but I hope I wrong yet again.
 

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#9 · (Edited by Moderator)
Furniture Building Plant Chair Flooring


Wood Flooring Floor Hardwood Ceiling


Bookcase Wood Floor Flooring Ladder


Wood Flooring Floor Hardwood Hall


Ok, guys I followed through with this fella and, again, looking for the input of the experienced.

The issues I ran into here was how important absolute flatness really is here, but i think i (luckily) pinned it. I really didn't want to plug in so many ribs, but it just wasnt there in the stability department until where its at now.

I took a take on the torsion box, but with an exposed back for potential repairs and hang cleats.

There's still a little deflection swing if i push at a corner alone. What do you think, screw-in, interior metal corners to minimize this? I thought it might be a good go (instead of more glue-in ribs) because, at least there there'd be some element of variability if things get woobly later on. This thing is pretty stable otherwise.

I'm looking to not totally close it up, as i'm trying to keep the weight and depth of the thing at a minimum.

The good news is: hey, it turned out not too bad and its less than 60lbs. :D

Inputs all welcome and thanks for dropping by
 

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#11 ·
Without a back panel you won't get the rigidity out of the system. However, you could screw the back panel on to the frame to allow access in the future. Also run the back panels in the opposite direction to the front. The back panel can be thin, say 1/4" to save weight & cost.

As for cleat, consider a french cleat system that can be attached over the back panel and screws. Trim along the perimeter can hide the cleat. These cleats can hold a lot of weight so it will work nicely.

Key problem with the large panels is transport and access to the final location.

Good luck…
 
#12 ·
Without a back panel you won t get the rigidity out of the system. However, you could screw the back panel on to the frame to allow access in the future. Also run the back panels in the opposite direction to the front. The back panel can be thin, say 1/4" to save weight & cost.

As for cleat, consider a french cleat system that can be attached over the back panel and screws. Trim along the perimeter can hide the cleat. These cleats can hold a lot of weight so it will work nicely.

Key problem with the large panels is transport and access to the final location.

Good luck…

- WoodES
Good points, WoodES

I like that idea about screwing in the panels for later. I'll probably use that strat. on the next one. I like my prototype above, but man it beat me up the way I did it (lol).

Mtnwild had a reply about hollow core doors ( i dont see it in the thread yet for some reason) and thats a good idea too. I've got a big auction house group next door who probably gets quite a few of those doors. Some guys just sand and prime them and get at it.
 
#13 ·
HI, I removed that part because it's really the same as the Torsion box.

I have seen doors with cardboard in the middle, instead of wood.

Didn't think an actual door would be as large as you wanted.

Good luck with that!
 
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