LumberJocks

Sawstops

  • Advertise with us

« back to Safety in the Woodworking Shop forum

Forum topic by Douglas! posted 01-28-2021 01:21 PM 1233 views 0 times favorited 60 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View Douglas!'s profile

Douglas!

27 posts in 40 days


01-28-2021 01:21 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question sawstop saw table saw sawstop safety saw stop

I’ve seen the video abotu the Sawstop, but they are incredibly expensive. Are there any other brands/altervnatives for cheaper? I don’t want to buy one thats super cheap and have it fail or something, but isd there something in the middle? I’m looking for one thats cheaper but offers more safety than a cheap hand guard, but less expensive then a full on sawstop. Got any recomendations? Or will I just have to save up for a while?


60 replies so far

View Kudzupatch's profile

Kudzupatch

118 posts in 2217 days


#1 posted 01-28-2021 01:35 PM

The only alternative is being very careful to keep you hand out of the blade.

There was something on here about a new product in development that could be added on.

I am not anti-SawStop, I think it is great idea. My problem is two fold. One if the price. Second is that there are so many other machines in the shop that will cut you finger off just as fast.

I have been cut pretty bad twice by the bandsaw. My only table saw injury was a kickback of a tiny cutoff that vibrated into the blade. Freak accident but SS wouldn’t help me in any of those.

-- Jeff Horton * Kudzu Craft skin boats* www.kudzucraft.com

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

6831 posts in 3502 days


#2 posted 01-28-2021 01:53 PM

Actually, aside from the auto-brake system on the SS, the competitors have essentially the same safety features, such as a riving knife, such things are now required by federal law. As with all things in the shop, the best safety device is the one between your ears. So don’t feel left out if you can’t buy a SS. I have one and think it’s a great saw….but it’s not the only one available. I’d start by looking at the Grizzly offerings.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Robert's profile

Robert

4440 posts in 2489 days


#3 posted 01-28-2021 02:16 PM



Actually, aside from the auto-brake system on the SS, the competitors have essentially the same safety features, such as a riving knife, such things are now required by federal law. As with all things in the shop, the best safety device is the one between your ears. So don t feel left out if you can t buy a SS. I have one and think it s a great saw….but it s not the only one available. I d start by looking at the Grizzly offerings.

- Fred Hargis


Excellent advise, as usual :-D

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View menuisierJC's profile

menuisierJC

18 posts in 42 days


#4 posted 01-28-2021 02:52 PM

I use my table saw more than any other stationary tool I own, so I figure that it is the biggest risk for me. With that in mind, I shelled out the money for a Sawstop. I’ve also noted that if you buy top quality tools and later want to sell them, people will be lined up at your door wanting to buy them.

-- Jeffrey

View controlfreak's profile

controlfreak

1763 posts in 610 days


#5 posted 01-28-2021 02:55 PM

Find a saw you like that has all the bells and whistles you are looking for and compare that price to an equally set up Saw Stop. That difference is what you are paying for the safety feature. Make your decision based on that. When an employee lost some finger tips in a non work related accident his medical bills exceeded $35,000 and counting along with three months out of work. That convinced me to pay for saw stop.

View hotbyte's profile

hotbyte

1045 posts in 3984 days


#6 posted 01-28-2021 03:04 PM

Same here. You can get injured with other tools but when the amount of time using a table saw is factored in, it really increases risk factor.


I use my table saw more than any other stationary tool I own, so I figure that it is the biggest risk for me. With that in mind, I shelled out the money for a Sawstop. I ve also noted that if you buy top quality tools and later want to sell them, people will be lined up at your door wanting to buy them.

- menuisierJC


View hotbyte's profile

hotbyte

1045 posts in 3984 days


#7 posted 01-28-2021 03:05 PM

I’ll say “same here” again :)


Find a saw you like that has all the bells and whistles you are looking for and compare that price to an equally set up Saw Stop. That difference is what you are paying for the safety feature. Make your decision based on that. When an employee lost some finger tips in a non work related accident his medical bills exceeded $35,000 and counting along with three months out of work. That convinced me to pay for saw stop.

- controlfreak


View tvrgeek's profile

tvrgeek

1419 posts in 2658 days


#8 posted 01-28-2021 03:39 PM

SawStop is the only blade brake saw until the patents run out. It is a very fine saw, but on your floor, about $4K. There are other very fine saws for a lot less money. For me, a true riving knife is by far the most important safety feature. Then, push blocks, sticks, sleds, and jigs. Just never get within 6 inches of the blade. Actually dust collection is up there as dust can kill you, just slower.

For all those who just say “be careful” well I can guarantee you every accident out there was someone who thought they were being careful. Kind of like motorcycle riders. There are those who have laid their bike down, and those who will lay their bike down. Or the parody Danny Ongias* said there were two kinds of Porsche drivers, who have hit a telephone backwards and those who will hit a telephone backwards”

In the 3 HP cabinet class, Powermatic/Baleigh is sweet. Several Grizzly, a Jet, Laguna, and the brand I have come to respect, Harvey. I notice Grizzly is selling South Bend that looks like a small upgrade to theirs. They are ALL made in the same 3 or 4 factories. The only saw with universal bad quality reviews is Delta. Bummer as they used to be the best and some of the new Unisaw features are really nice. I would not go for a “hybrid” as it is just a light contractor saw on a box for more money.

Each has it’s good and bad features. Some have a very short distance from the blade to the front edge. Laguna for one, and the South Bend is pretty short. To me, that would limit my sled and crosscuts. I just got feedback from Laguna (F3 is a nice bit of kit) and they said they had never thought about that. Well, they are band saw pros.

I thought my Ridgid contractor saw was a life-time tool, but after about 10 years, gee I want a 3 HP cabinet. C300 Harvey is on my wish list. Still, I may pay double the price for the SawStop PCS. I am careful. I use sleds and blocks, but I do like my fingers very much. If the PCS was a piece of junk with a brake, then I could ignore it, but no, it is actually a very good saw. As good as a PM2000? Maybe not quite.

If I was a contractor and needed a job site saw, no way I would risk not having a SS as who knows what helper could get hurt. If I had a cabinet shop, again, no question ( except for the big sliding table and autofeed industrial machines) Why underwriters tolerate any not a SS, I do not know. I sure would not write a policy like that. For the home use, it is your decision. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but not make him drink.

As I have mentioned every time someone goes looking for a saw and does not search the forum, download the parts diagram for all the saws you are interested in. You can see which ones share which trunnions. The trunnion is the saw. The rest is just holding it up. Bigger and heavier the better.

Do understand, the SS will not prevent any injury, just more likely to get a cut and maybe a stitch rather than losing your finger or slicing your forearm reaching. It is great, but not perfect so it is no excuse to be careless. Besides, a trigger means $100 for a blade and $70 for a cartridge. Much cheaper than an emergency visit.

  • For the kids out there, Danny was a motorcycle racer who moved to Indy cars and sports cars. The joke was that he wrote the shortest book about racing ever. ” Walls I have missed” He was very talented, but did not transition from youthful exuberance to old and crafty on the track as he got a little older.
View SMP's profile (online now)

SMP

3429 posts in 914 days


#9 posted 01-28-2021 04:23 PM

For all those who just say “be careful” well I can guarantee you every accident out there was someone who thought they were being careful.

Besides, a trigger means $100 for a blade and $70 for a cartridge. Much cheaper than an emergency visit.

I disagree. Most accidents are people becoming complacent and laxing on safety. They may claim they were being safe later to save face and not look like a fool.

And sounds like the people spending $35k on emergency room visits should focus on getting health insurance first before getting finger chopping machines.

Not saying don’t get a sawstop if it makes you feel safer. Just that its not a necessity. If you don’t have health insurance, that should be your priority

View controlfreak's profile

controlfreak

1763 posts in 610 days


#10 posted 01-28-2021 05:08 PM


I disagree. Most accidents are people becoming complacent and laxing on safety. They may claim they were being safe later to save face and not look like a fool.

And sounds like the people spending $35k on emergency room visits should focus on getting health insurance first before getting finger chopping machines.

Not saying don’t get a sawstop if it makes you feel safer. Just that its not a necessity. If you don’t have health insurance, that should be your priority

- SMP


Myself I fear repetitive cuts more than any other. A single cut I am very focus on every aspect of safety. When doing repetitive cuts there tends to be a rhythm and that is when I feel danger creeping in.

He does have insurance but will be paying something out of pocket too I imagine. For me my deductible alone is $3000.00. So when I did the math I bought the $1400.00 job site Saw Stop and paid for the added dado brake & insert selling the crappy Kobalt I had. I am $1500 ahead of one accident and have a much better saw. I feel better about it and that is just me. If I ever manage a larger shop without the need to go outside for long rip cuts I will sell for about half and get another one. We all have different thoughts on the worthiness of saw stop much like the best way to sharpen tools. One can only search their sole to decide it is for them and within their budget.

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

1461 posts in 1968 days


#11 posted 01-28-2021 06:20 PM

SAWSTOP is about which side of the fence your on.

The side that sees it’s advantages and the side that doesn’t.

As a profession all shops I worked for had workman’s comp.

For the hobbyist they may carry insurance or not and could seriously jeopardize your full time job.

When I got hurt In 85 I got workman’s comp for 2 months. 1/2 of my normal pay.

So if you can aford it and want to be a player, it’s your call…

View tvrgeek's profile

tvrgeek

1419 posts in 2658 days


#12 posted 01-28-2021 07:56 PM

No amount of insurance can replace a finger.

My closest have been flicking away waste ( impatience) and a small piece rip that had room to move between the blade and splitter. Grabbed it and flung it at high speed, pulled my push block out of my hand and I landed on the fence, not the blade. It would have literally cut my hand in half. A riving knife would have prevented it.

I stand by, for a hobbyist, it is your choice. A C-300-30 is $1300 ( on sale right now) . A PCS is about $4000. If I were a business, I would not think twice. If I were an insurance company, I would not insure a non-saw-stop.

We do still have the right to make bad decisions. That is not true everywhere. Personally the lighter job site saws kind of scare me.

View okiedoc1980's profile

okiedoc1980

2 posts in 95 days


#13 posted 01-28-2021 10:08 PM

For what it is worth: Saw stop patents begin to expire in August 2021. There are several, not all will expire before 2024 however.

Per Wikipedia:
August 2021
The SawStop patents begin to expire in August 2021, with filed extensions this could extend until April 2024 for the early patents. Given that there are about 100 patents, patent protection for this product line may continue for some years.

-- When the Okies left Oklahoma and moved to California, they raised the average intelligence level in both states.

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

8414 posts in 3207 days


#14 posted 01-28-2021 11:42 PM

For what it is worth: Saw stop patents begin to expire in August 2021. There are several, not all will expire before 2024 however.
- okiedoc1980

And the owner/inventor was/is a patent attorney – so they were written to be as vague and over-reaching as humanly possible – as was evidenced in the Bosch attempt at marketing their version based on a completely different (and superior IMO) technology and non-destructive blade extraction method.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Foghorn's profile

Foghorn

1033 posts in 395 days


#15 posted 01-28-2021 11:52 PM


For what it is worth: Saw stop patents begin to expire in August 2021. There are several, not all will expire before 2024 however.
- okiedoc1980

And the owner/inventor was/is a patent attorney – so they were written to be as vague and over-reaching as humanly possible – as was evidenced in the Bosch attempt at marketing their version based on a completely different (and superior IMO) technology and non-destructive blade extraction method.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix


A lot of the reason for the bile directed at Sawstop. Not because it isn’t a great technology or product. What’s the difference between a lawyer and a catfish? One’s a bottom dwelling scumbag and the other one lives in the river. No real care for the well being of their fellow beings. Just my opinion of course. In my business, we use machines that will kill you in a fraction of a second and don’t have anything approaching Sawstop technology. Safety learnings are shared freely however. It is industry compared to homeowner use however. It’s a little like Volvo and the industry leading safety innovations years ago that they freely shared with anybody else that wanted to use them for no charge.

-- Darrel

showing 1 through 15 of 60 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com