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need advice moving dried blanks

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Forum topic by Karda posted 01-28-2021 04:19 AM 419 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Karda

2891 posts in 1562 days


01-28-2021 04:19 AM

Hi, a guy in my club gave me some ash bowl blacks tha have been in his shop for 9 months. The chunls are about 14” square and around 5” thick environment is similar he lives in northern PA and I live abot 50Miles north in NY. He lives in a wooded area me urban. My question is how long should I wait before I bring them in to cut down and turn, they have been end sealed thanks


16 replies so far

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CaptainKlutz

4137 posts in 2503 days


#1 posted 01-28-2021 07:38 AM

Technically; Air dried lumber transportation falls under firewood transportation laws, unless it has been treated and certified as pest free.
USA has amaze of state, city, and regional laws on firewood transportation; all trying to stop spread of unwanted pests. This site has more information

Cheers!

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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therealSteveN

7235 posts in 1582 days


#2 posted 01-28-2021 09:05 AM

Usually all of them are about bark on, such as log shapes. That web page is even called “Don’t move firewood”

Sealed pieces already slabbed to final, wouldn’t apply. If they have bark on????? Maybe. Those laws are looking for guys bringing in truckloads of trees, not a few pieces for woodworking in the trunk. The pest go into the bark and lay eggs. The larva come out a year later. The fear of moving is that you are moving larva, possibly to areas where there are no pests, the larva come out, and presto, pests are transported. Pretty sure New York, and Pa are both already ground zero

At 5” of thickness, and only air drying 9 months it is a long time for woodworking dry to the center of the piece. The usual yardstick for air dry, is 1” of thickness per year. If you are turning it, I’d just turn one, and see how it goes. People turn green wood all the time. This will just get wetter as you get into it, and then drier at the other side. The ends will dry fastest of all the wood, which accounts for that. Last to dry is the middle.

-- Think safe, be safe

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Karda

2891 posts in 1562 days


#3 posted 01-28-2021 05:01 PM

thanks, when I can I am going to cut it down to turning size. Up here the distance is over 50 miles I am nowheres near that

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pottz

14799 posts in 1993 days


#4 posted 01-28-2021 06:08 PM

dont worry karda i dont think the wood police are gonna arrest you-lol.

-- working with my hands is a joy,it gives me a sense of fulfillment,somthing so many seek and so few find.-SAM MALOOF.

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Karda

2891 posts in 1562 days


#5 posted 01-28-2021 08:06 PM

I’m not i cut one up today into spindle blanks. When I took off the bark I did not see any sign of live insects. the cold in walts shop probably got them and the tree is dead. My concern is warpage

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Underdog

1632 posts in 3044 days


#6 posted 01-28-2021 09:29 PM

The wood is gonna move after you cut into it- even if mostly dry. But it’s going to be wet in the center anyway since it’s 5” thick.
Most of us turners rough-turn a bowl while green, then wrap it in newspapers (or something) then let it dry for at least six months to a year. Then we finish turn it after it’s quit losing moisture. You can measure with a meter or just weigh it once a week til it quits losing weight.

Hope this helps.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

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Karda

2891 posts in 1562 days


#7 posted 01-28-2021 11:21 PM

good point I should have thought of that. I tested a piece I cut up today it tested .7 on the meter. I just realized my meter reads in decmils not whole numbers, its a Harbor freight meter. What kind of reading am I looking for thanks

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CaptainKlutz

4137 posts in 2503 days


#8 posted 01-29-2021 11:41 AM


Usually all of them are about bark on, such as log shapes. That web page is even called “Don t move firewood”
Sealed pieces already slabbed to final, wouldn t apply. If they have bark on????? Maybe.
...
- therealSteveN

My only purpose was to share experience.
IME – ALL non-kiln dried timber falls under similar rules as firewood, with or without bark. YMMV

Not an expert, only a victim with stories:

Have transported thousand’s of bdft of lumber from CA, NY, PA, OH, IN, KY, and MO; to AZ in last 3 decades for home shop use. Usually couple of bundles (600+bdft) on a trailer. AZ wood prices are so high, can usually sell 1/2 load just below normal wholesale; pay for then entire trip and end up with stack of free wood?
Roughly 75% of trips, I have at least one employee of USDA Federal Parks Dept, or State Park Ranger; ask about the lumber. Trip from NY had 2 different park rangers in different states, and US DOT agent at rest area ask for paperwork. Most inquiries were made at a gas station, food stop, or rest area along highway when I was stopped. Can only remember being pulled over twice with lights and sirens for lumber inspection, while traversing next a state park area in OH and MO.

The message was always same. They wanted to see my bill of sale, bill of lading, and/or were looking for the kiln dried certification (usually stamped or imprinted on bottom). Many times they would see paperwork, thank me for traveling with certified kiln dried lumber, and walk away.
A few times; they would still ask to inspect the tarp covered lumber for bark, and/or pests, even with proper paperwork. The over protective folks would always lecture on pest quarantines, and tell me if they found bark or evidence of pests; and I didn’t have proper paperwork; would be fined and lumber confiscated as we walked around trailer for inspection.

Bark scale infestations were the major concern. Bark carries not only bugs, but also invisible mold spores that can devastate certain species. Probability of law enforcement interdiction events were much higher when remnants of bark or dark sap wood were visible on edges/ends of stack, on loads not fully covered under a tarp. But even fully covered loads still had inquiries.

Many states hide timber/lumber codes in strange places, like Wisconsin has a Dept of Natural Resources (DNR), and others use Parks & Recreation department. The ‘donotmovefirewood’ site posted above is best reference I have found that links to timber transportation code in all 50 states. If I could find a similar reference for air dried lumber, would have posted it instead.

Best Luck.

-- If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all, - Albert King - Born Under a Bad Sign released 1967

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bigJohninvegas

943 posts in 2470 days


#9 posted 01-30-2021 05:07 PM



I m not i cut one up today into spindle blanks. When I took off the bark I did not see any sign of live insects. the cold in walts shop probably got them and the tree is dead. My concern is warpage

- Karda

You will want to keep the wood in the same environment as it has been for the last 9 months if possible. Like if its been indoors or outdoors unheated/cooled. keep it that way. Wood that has been outdoors drying suddenly moved indoors will not respond well.
Several things to do. If your not going to use it right away. Leave it alone. Anything you process into a smaller turning blank today, may start to develop checks and cracks. Leaving it alone allows for you to work around any checking that may happen as it dries. Takes longer to dry, but you end up with better blanks in the end.
But of course if you want to turn a green piece go for it. Green wood it fun to turn.
When turning green wood. You need to turn it all at once. No stopping for lunch, or for the evening with intent to pick up where you left off in the morning.
Green wood dries as you go, and moves. You stop for a break it will move to much.
Thin wall turning is best, but most important is that it is uniform in thickness.
Dry wood makes a good functional bowl, where green wood tends to be a nice piece of art.

-- John

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Karda

2891 posts in 1562 days


#10 posted 01-30-2021 05:16 PM

ok thanks when I turn green I pack the rough blank in shaving, will painting in anchor seal do as well

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bigJohninvegas

943 posts in 2470 days


#11 posted 01-30-2021 08:36 PM



ok thanks when I turn green I pack the rough blank in shaving, will painting in anchor seal do as well

- Karda

Not all green turnings need to be left thick, oversize to dry for later. For something decorative. Turn green and don’t leave it over size. But turn it till its finished final thickness. wet sand it, let it dry and finish it with something like a Danish oil, or really any oil finish of your choice.
It will move, warp. Some pieces move a lot, some just a little bit. Never really know.
As long as thickness is uniform through out, it typically rarely cracks or falls apart.
A lot of fun, good for a bowl or vase. Nothing with a lid on it.

Check out this article. I find green wood to be a lot of fun to turn.

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2008/09/03/green-turned-bowls-working-with-warp

-- John

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Karda

2891 posts in 1562 days


#12 posted 01-30-2021 10:13 PM

thanks i’ll read it after the wife is done with me

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OSU55

2738 posts in 2998 days


#13 posted 01-31-2021 05:38 PM

At 5” thick it will rot before it dries. If you want spindle blanks or smaller faceplate blanks for certain things go ahead and cut those, sealing end grain and back ~1”. Otherwise leave as is. Even the blanks you cut probably wont be “dry” when you get to them. The best method for the hobby turner to know if wood is dry is to weigh it and track the weight over time. I do this with most all turnings, once or twice turned. Dont want to put finish on wet wood. A simple cheap digital kitchen scale rated at ~10 lbs will do nicely. I simply put masking tape on the paper bag the turning goes in and write the date and weight on it. It is best to keep drying turned items in a stable environment, like your house. This provides a relatively stable environment so that you remove the environmental variable in developing your drying process, whether a cardboard box, paper bag, whatever. Storing in a workshop where temp/humidity vary wildly during the year makes it much more difficult to figure out the drying process.

I turn very little “dry” wood. Some may be close, but will still need a few days to dry out after the bulk of wood is cut off. Some is sopping wet, and at any stage in between. 2 basic ways to turn – 1) 1 turn – turn thin, ~-3/8” or less depending on size, dry, sand and finish, it will be warped, and it is intentional. Warping can be used as a design characteristic. 2) 2 turn – rough turn leaving ~10% wall thickness. Dry, remount, turn round to desired thickness. I do a lot of smaller spindle stuff this way, like boxes and grinders, and rimmed bowls. I do hollow forms both ways – depends on what I want. Natural edge bowls get 1 turn.

Wet wood is much more fun to turn vs dry. Cuts much easier and no dust.

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Karda

2891 posts in 1562 days


#14 posted 01-31-2021 07:15 PM

yea green is better but i am selling some things and warped wont go, a little maybe that is not real obvious. I am pretty much doing what you suggest. i am going to try saran wrap in place of anchor seal and see what happens.

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OSU55

2738 posts in 2998 days


#15 posted 01-31-2021 07:53 PM

I use thick kraft paper (grocery) bags or kraft paper folded around the work vs sealer. Quicker, cleaner, and easier than sealer, the sealer doesnt have to be stripped or cut off, and the bags or paper are used again and again. I have been using plastic wrap around the rim the past few months and it seems to help – a bit less distortion and cracking. It doesnt seem to extend drying time. Hard to say since I havent done a direct comparison. Plastic wrap hasnt had any negatives, such as mold or extending the dry time, so at the least it wont hurt anything.

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