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long quarter sawn OAK top, concerns

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Forum topic by needshave posted 01-24-2021 11:04 PM 383 views 0 times favorited 10 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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needshave

182 posts in 2966 days


01-24-2021 11:04 PM

Topic tags/keywords: glue joints machining square jointer planer quarter sawn oak flat cupping cracking

I’m building a quarter sawn top that will be 15” wide by 96”long. It is of quarter sawn oak and I’m starting with 6/4 rough materials that when finished, it will be planed to .87 thick. (+/-) All of my stock is between 10” and 12” wide so there will be a glue joint to get the 15”. For something like this top, I would typically use M & T construction. If I follow with the same type of construction I would use loose style Tenons.

Typically I have never had problems with cupping when using Quarter sawn material. Cracking yes, but not cupping. I will be using 1×4’s (across grain) on the bottom side to helpfully prevent the cracking as well as attachment to verticals.

So my question is, do you have another or other recommendations as far as a machined joint for gluing or glue joint, knowing that it will be 96” long and I will be using 2 boards to obtain the 15” finished width. Any experiences you can share that worked well for you? Any experiences or example you want to share would be great..

I appreciate your help..


10 replies so far

View CWWoodworking's profile

CWWoodworking

1491 posts in 1186 days


#1 posted 01-24-2021 11:33 PM

If I understand correctly, I would have my supplier straight line rip the lumber, rip it to width, and glue it up. No need for anything more than that.

If your lumber in the rough, track saw would be a good option. Jointer would be if you have one big enough. Or get it close with jointer and use a hand planes to finish it up.

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Lazyman

6628 posts in 2394 days


#2 posted 01-24-2021 11:43 PM

I assume you are asking about the joints to glue the panel to width. The only reason to use loose tenons is to help with alignment. As long as you have enough clamps and you have well prepared, square edges and flat boards, any sort of mechanical joinery is really not necessary. Is there something particular about these boards that makes you worry about the glue up?

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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needshave

182 posts in 2966 days


#3 posted 01-24-2021 11:51 PM

There is no supplier. It’s all material that the family’s had for decades and still using it. So the material is about 20 years old, kiln dried and 4/4,5/4 and 8/4 quarter sawn oak. SO i basically start with rough sawn lumber and the rest is on me.

No track saws, couple good delta table saws here though. Jointers are a delta and a Oliver 12”. it won’t handle something 8’ long though, close maybe 5-6” long I’m guessing. I could face joint, plane and then use a straight blade on the shaper to get a true edge.

Are you suggesting to just straight glue, no T&G?

Thanks for writing,

View Foghorn's profile

Foghorn

1030 posts in 393 days


#4 posted 01-25-2021 01:16 AM



There is no supplier. It s all material that the family s had for decades and still using it. So the material is about 20 years old, kiln dried and 4/4,5/4 and 8/4 quarter sawn oak. SO i basically start with rough sawn lumber and the rest is on me.

No track saws, couple good delta table saws here though. Jointers are a delta and a Oliver 12”. it won t handle something 8 long though, close maybe 5-6” long I m guessing. I could face joint, plane and then use a straight blade on the shaper to get a true edge.

Are you suggesting to just straight glue, no T&G?

Thanks for writing,

- needshave


For joints like that, glue is plenty strong. Tenons, biscuits , dowels would help with alignment but won’t add any appreciable strength.

-- Darrel

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Aj2

3663 posts in 2805 days


#5 posted 01-25-2021 02:14 AM

Nothing makes a jointed edge better then a jointer. If it’s ready to work sharp knives sharp operator.

-- Aj

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

6628 posts in 2394 days


#6 posted 01-25-2021 02:50 AM

The problem is more about handling the weight than the length on your jointer. If you get someone to help or can setup proper infeed and outfeed support, you should be able to make the jointer do most of the work. You just need a way to support the end while the center of gravity is beyond the ends of the bed. You can also make joining sled for the table saw but likewise, you need to support the infeed and outfeed weight throughout the cut. As long as the boards are pretty flat with no significant bow, twist or cup, you can probably save a lot of the flattening until after you get the panel glued up.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1357 posts in 2568 days


#7 posted 01-25-2021 03:02 AM

The 1X4’s affixed solidly across the grain of the top can cause cracking instead of preventing cracking of the top due to the difference in movement across the grain vs. along the grain.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

6396 posts in 3316 days


#8 posted 01-25-2021 05:59 AM

How long are the beds on the Oliver12” jointer?

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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Robert

4435 posts in 2487 days


#9 posted 01-25-2021 01:15 PM

.87 +/- what? :-D

Glue line rip – well good luck if that works for you. No matter which way you go, I’d be getting my jointer plane honed up.

It’s very difficult to joint boards that long on any jointer, but it can be done using in/out feed support – at least close enough to dial in with . There are several ways to attack it. One is to run a router bit between two boards clamped together with a gap just slightly smaller than the bit.

You can also do this in the table saw with a good quality blade using a straight edge mounted to the wood.. Not optimal, but doable. Personally I still think you’ll need a hand plane to dial it in. Oak is an extremely strong wood and joint gaps are not very easily dealt with.

That said, narrower board small gaps can often be clamped out, lessening the pressure to get a perfect glue lline. This in mind rip them down first, of course this means 3 joints instead of 2.

Normally I don’t use alignment aids for panels, but something that long needs help – biscuits, tongue and groove, spline, etc. I’d go with biscuits. Or,

You can use battens but even tho it’s qs and well acclimated, use slotted holes.

Keep it as thick as possible as long as possible!

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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splintergroup

4650 posts in 2229 days


#10 posted 01-25-2021 08:16 PM

Roberts router trick is an excellent way to ensure a perfect joint on long sections. Personally I’d try to get a “perfect” rip on a table saw and if that fails, use the router method. Using a jointer for long and heavy stock requires some skill as the plank balance will fight back, but also worth a try since you seem to have plenty of width in each piece to shrug off any errors.

A hand plane is great for doing both edges simultaneously, folded over like a book, any error in the angle cancels out when assembled. The only issue is any cup or bow deviation from straight along the length will leave double the deviation as a gap in the joint. This is ok for a small gap at the center (< 1/16 inch is great) since the act of closing the gap in the center with clamps will force the ends even tighter together. Failure of these types of long joints typically will begin with splitting at the ends as they shrink/expand more then the center section and having the extra force helps prevent this.

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