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Buying out a woodshop of lumber?

2K views 24 replies 13 participants last post by  WoodenDreams 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
So I was approached last week and asked if I had any interest in some wood their family member has and no longer has a need for it (I guess he had a saw mill and cut up a lot of this himself over the years). I didn't think much of it until I saw some pictures (it was a pretty good pile). I went and looked at it today and I am having a hard time getting my mind around how much is there. Just guessing at least 6000+ board ft (could be more) of lumber it goes on and on. all air dried (all in the rough and lots in slab form) My moisture reader on it was between 5-9%

I would guess and some of it has to be over 40 years old or better. I am a little concerned about insects but didn't see any obvious signs. A good chunk of it is old pine with very few knots very nice looking stuff, and I suspect the rest is Ash, Oak and Maple. We locally have lots of Elm, but I didn't immediately see that but assume its in there.

He also has a bunch of crotch chunks hidden away in an old barn covered in layers of bird crap they told me he was always telling them that was his "gun stock stash"

The lumber varies in sizes from 12/4 to 4/4 and all appears to have been stored correctly as it is straight. I'm struggling to come up with a number for the family on what would be fair, without measuring every board and putting a hand plane on all of it to come up with exactly what all of it is and how much. It seems to be organized in different species but then there is an entire attic full of a mixed bag. Anyone have any thoughts on how to approach this or do I just shoot them a number I think is safe? Should I be concerned about bugs at this point? I would also be bringing this into my current lumber storage. I have several thousand BF in there, I would hate to see this cause issues? Am I over thinking this?

Thanks Brandon
 
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#7 ·
IMHO - price depends on grading, condition, and ease of transport?
Graded lumber, banded into bundles for easy load/transport; earns highest prices.
Animal poop covered unknown species & grade are worth a lot less, especially since it only costs 30-40 cents/bdft to mill an average log. Location matters too as transportation/handling costs add up fast.

Considering inexpensive species like; ash, oak, hickory, poplar, and maple kiln dried sell commercially for < $2 bdft plus shipping by truck load at forest; my starting price for air dried barn wood is always lot less.

Your bug concerns are valid. It is not recommended to store kiln dried wood and air dried wood in same commercial storage space. Live edge air dried lumber transportation falls under the same classification as firewood transportation, and is banned in many areas.

IME - Most professional cabinet/furniture builders only buy proper kiln dried lumber as kiln certification is required for transportation of wood product out of city or state. If professional has to send the lumber into kiln cycle for bug free certification, the value drops ~$1-$1.5 bdft due extra handling and kiln costs. So unless there is some exciting figure, most professionals won't bother with air dried stash.

Have stumbled across a couple of air dried sawmill stashes that wanted to unload the entire estate all at once. Never paid more than $2 bdft for FAS grade bundle domestic (except walnut cost me ~$3). Usually pay ~$1 bdft for random species/grades. Have bought wild burl figure walnut, birdseye maple, or heavy tiger stripe silver maple for more; but it was planed, graded and obviously higher value.

#IAMAKLUTZ not an expert. YMMV

Best Luck.
 
#8 · (Edited by Moderator)
I know you want to be fair to the family. I would too. But keep in mind you are taking all the risks here. Put your emotions aside. As my Grandparents would said, You are buying a Pig in a Poke, so you don't know what you are getting and how much, if any is any good.

You might get lucky and find gold. you may find trash. Based on that I would go on the low end and wouldn't feel bad about it. No smart person is going to offer retail buying blind.
 
#9 ·
I don't know what borer issue is out there, but where I am its a serious problem with air drying.

Very difficult to see insect damage in rough lumber. Look for sawdust between boards.

Take a hand plane and check the pine for beetles.

If you're planning to resell its very important to guarantee insect free lumber.
 
#11 ·
I agree with everything that has been said, these are all issues I have been considering, I am building a dehumidification kiln as we speak, I am thinking that maybe I should put all of this lumber in the kiln for 3-5 hours and crank the heat up to the 130s, I don't think it needs dried out but to kill any insects before going into my lumber.

I was kinda thinking that $1.00 bd ft range myself for everything they have, but maybe I am high? I didn't see any walnut or exotics (I wouldn't expect to see any either kinda knowing the situation) except for a few pieces that I don't think really make a difference on a big purchase like this.

This guy made some beautiful cabinets over the years in my community, As straight as the lumber is and a lot of it is stacked vertically makes me wonder if it wasn't kiln dried and they family doesn't know. I really have no way of knowing.

And maybe I can make a deal that if we start loading it and it has some insect problems we maybe have to back price off.

I would like to have it and its handy to my place only a few miles away, I just don't need it bad enough to over pay for anything.

Brandon
 
#12 ·
I wouldn't make an offer.

I would explain the risks and mention the amount of labor involved to move it,
then tell them that you wouldn't want to insult them with a price too low, because of those factors.
Explain that you would be more comfortable with them giving you a number, and letting you decide.
 
#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
I have bought cherry at 85 cents per board foot delivered 50 miles.

Can you and will you use that much lumber of this kind?

Do you have some buddies you can divide it with now or later?

If you think there is 7K bf AND YOU CAN USE IT, I would offer $6k tops, maybe only $5K.

It may turn out to be less wood than that and of lower quality than you thought.

Assume it has bugs in it. It does. It can still be ok. It's not all eaten up so it's obviously not a disaster but a nuisance. I don't think 130 F for a couple of hours would be enough. I would say a couple of days.

But out there where you are, there are fewer trees, yes? So maybe lumber runs higher.
 
#15 ·
Think $1 is too high?

- Bieser
Might be, I think the major liabilities involved all have to be taken into consideration are:
1) Hidden insects
2) Labor for loading, hauling and unloading/stacking
3) Warehousing space & time
4) Marketing anything you can't/won't use
5) Transportation costs

Family further complicates things as close or distant family could make negotiations better/worse depending on emotions. My grandma had an 80 acre golf course covered with some valuable hardwood and thousands of good sized cedar trees. I considered buying a $40K mill and making a full time job of logging and milling wood for ~4-6 months after she sold but while she still had full access and rights to any and everything on the property (as it was to be completely leveled). Her emotional attachment to the way it looked as a golf course and perpetual war against logic thwarted that opportunity to the tune of at least $100K for her and again for myself. My aunt across the street watched as 196 full log trucks left the property full of logs destined for some mill somewhere. Quick work of everything valuable was made with multiple hydro-ax machines one forwarder, three skidders a tub grinder and two Prentice style loaders. While the investment in equipment was no doubt substantial, someone profited well from her standing timber, all because of family!
 
#18 · (Edited by Moderator)
I have to think if I ran up on that, I'd be thinking a number of things that will cut into the price.

1. You are going to lose at least 20% of it, due to cracking from sitting around year after year, permanent warps, insects, odd sizes, etc.
2. 6000 board feet of lumber would have a hard time fitting on a straight body flatbed truck. How do you plan on moving it, and how much help are you going to have to pay to help you move what might be 3-5 tons of lumber?
3. Although there will be lumber in there that will take your breath away, there will also be lumber that will just sit around because it is too plain, cut wrong, it's fine lumber, but you never find a way to use it.
4. You have a place to rick all this up?
5. When I bought 586 bd. Ft. of walnut, it took two complete pickup truck loads to get it to my house. 6000 ft is more like nine times that!

My thoughts, bulk purchases come cheaper than single boards. They want to get rid of it. That 586 bd. ft. of walnut I bought, we settled on $2.15 a board foot, which was fine with me, because I lost about 15% of it due to bugs, warping, etc.
My TOP number, and I probably would start lower than this, would be about $4800. They can always say no, and you can come back and ask if you can buy part of it, or pick through. If they say they want it all gone, then my ceiling would be $4800. I'd start at $4000. I know where you live lumber is more money than where I live down here next to the Smoky Mountain Forest, but man, that amount of lumber, $1 a bd. ft. is too much.
 
#19 ·
Like it was said above, if you can get it out of there easily and without too much expense, you've got a sizeable bargaining chip. Nobody in my family would want the ordeal of selling off my meager lumber supply board by board or even by species. Too much time and effort.

If you've got the cash, $1/board foot is a good price. Ask for a number from them first and adjust accordingly. Lumber prices are going up, up, up and even with a good amount of waste, $1/board foot is most likely a bargain.
 
#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
I think the estimate of 3-5 tons would be way low, if a cubic foot of dry red oak weighs 45lbs that puts a board foot at 3.75lbs, a cubic foot of dry western red cedar weighs 23lbs putting a board foot at 1.92lbs. I would place a minimum of 2lbs. per bdft for the purpose of guestimating total weigh knowing, and show up equipped to safely haul away as much as 10 tons of lumber.
 
#22 ·
Thanks for all the information, I'm just waiting to hear back from them. This is not my family but a family that is trying to clean some stuff up around there place, and I am the local "wood guy" so I got the call. I will have to take a closer look at it if they do decide to let it all go and I can get a decent price. I think Ill just stack it in a building I have away from my lumber then run it all through the DH kiln or solar kiln at least to be safe.

Thanks Brandon
 
#23 ·
Will either of those kilns get hot enough to kill bugs if any are present? I'm planning on building a DH kiln and it's my understanding they don't really need to get the wood super hot like an industrial kiln where time is money.
 
#24 ·
It needs to get up to 130 deg at least for a certain amount of time, so my DH kiln doesnt without heat source. So I run DH until the wood is dry then when its dry I heat it up and then let it settle for a couple more days before removing. the Solar kiln will get that hot on its own.
 
#25 ·
I've been asked to buy out wood inventory from woodworkers moving out of the area. But I look at the hickory, mahogany and poplar I bought over a year ago. Still setting in stacks to make Hope Chests and Urns. I'll use it up eventually. I have to tell them not interested. With the cost of money, I would have been better off buying as needed. One of them moved up from Illinois. Brought with him all his wood inventory. After a year he was moving back, and didn't want to haul it back to Illinois. He had a lot of nice boards, but what would I do with it, And where to store it.
 
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